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  1. #1
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    Computing Professionals lacking in Status?

    Have been thinking about this and would certainly appreciate all your input on this.

    Do you think professionals in the computing industry lacks status and prestige in society? Specially when compared to other professionals such as doctors, engineers, architects or even people such as senior managers, senior marketing officers etc?

    Why do you think this might be so? Do you think that it is fair, or does computing professionals just don't deserve as much respect as the others? Is the contribution of computing professionals undervalued? Should we fight for more recognition?

    Thanks for whatever input you might have.
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  2. #2
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    Most of the job fields you listed require some formal education. Computer professionals often have years of experience but little formal training.

    But the real problem is that there are too many computer people that label themselves as "experts" but know very little about the profession. Their saturation into the employment market has devalued IT professionals in general. I've had the displeasure of working with them side-by-side at various locations. I've observed people that entered the IT field seeking higher pay and prestige only to find they didn't like the field, and they stay in the field becuase they're afraid to change to something else.

    It isn't helping that larger vendors are outsourcing their support to people they called "technical support" but are little more than mindless script-reading zombies. To a layman they're as much a computer professional as the IT department at the office.

    This is an interesting topic, I'm sure there are other reasons I'm not thinking of. I hope others share.
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  3. #3
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    and the deluge of Devry techs.....

    consider the plumber or refrigerator repair man is probably making more than a lot of pc techs out there...

  4. #4
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    I am always getting calls to go fix computers after they've been worked on by the so called "Geek Squad" at the Best Buy locations. Places like them cause the issues you are talking about..

  5. #5
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    That is because everyone thinks that they are a computer tech or network engineer. How many times have you heard " I want to do something complicated with my computer/network. Could you just tell me which buttons to push?"

    Most people don't think that IT is a skilled trade, but at the same time these people would never cosider asking a plumber how to do it themselves, but they think nothing of trying to get free advice / labor out of you.

  6. #6
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    Good thread...

    Been in this industry for 10 years, took formal training but to be honest with everyone, it's great for the Cert's, etc... but it means jack $#@& when it comes to real world situtations and experience.

    I used to work for a guy that called himself an "expert", actually a "network expert" and "systems expert" and a "virus expert", but man, this guy was a clown when it came right down to it, I left and started my own business and NEVER looked back, he's out of business now after a lawsuit sunk him.

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  7. #7
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    Been thinking about it more. While I agree that there are alot of unqualified people out there who claims to be Computing Professionals, and they are indeed contributing to the lack of respect for computing professionals. Maybe it does have something to do with the lack of strict industry regulation. As in doctors will need to go through many paperwork with the relevant authorities, professional bodies etc. to be actually certified as 'doctors' and be allowed to practice, but any fool can call themselves a programmer, technician, computer expert.

    But I do believe that people still lack respect for the 'real' computing professionals.

    Think Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs and all the other big time industry names you can think of. Most of them are pictured in more of a lucky guy who struck it rich. More emphasis is placed on their 'luck' and business sense then on their programming skills.

    And admit it, everyone, including you and me, feels there is much more status if you are an engineer building buildings or a doctor healing the sick a senior manager overseeing a host of workers, than a programmer who sits in front of a 15 inch screen everyday churning out lines upon lines of code each day. And even if the same amount of effort and knowledge is required for the same job, engineers who built the world's talleset tower is still more revered than those who created the software that runs on everyone's computers, even though the latter are probably those who are filthy rich.

    I think terms such as computer scientist, software engineers, software architects etc. are just names coined in to help raise the status of computing professionals in the industry. Yet, when people hear the term software engineer (or heck, let's throw in the term senior software engineers) it just doesn't generate as much awe and respect as a civil or mechanical engineer.

    Just a few pretty random ideas I got, would really appreciate if people can add more to it.
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  8. #8
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    While the common middle class people like us dont think much of ourselves, in reality, the upper class think a lot of us. I mean the doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. Friends of mine dont like "The Woodlands" which is full of huge houses, quite a few mansions (elevators, theatres - one I know of is made of all steel) and snobs. I reply that I dont have a problem with people, and my friends know why.

    When I am called into such a home, I walk in confident. They may be better than me in public on the street because they have more money than me.... but right there, in "their" homes, I am better than them because I have the knowledge. I easily talk above them and bring them down a few notches, suddenly, they are looking up to me. And I enjoy it

    So, they treat me as an equal. Many actually become human and act quite humble. Funny how their roles change when they dont have a clear advantage. They tend to be pretty cool. I cleared a few spyware off one's computer, took about $30 minutes. She asked how much she owed, I said $475. She said ok and started writing a check. I stopped her and told I was joking, it was only $75. She wrote the check for $500. I asked why, she said because she wants to be a premium client that I rush to and get problems fixed for. I told her that costs $600, but she didnt go for it

    So do I think much of other IT's? No, I dont. I know most of them are a joke. They can talk the talk, but they cant walk the walk. Do people in other professions know the same? No, which is why they think higher of them. You'd be surprised the looks in some of their faces when they ask how many years I had to spend in school to learn this, and I say "none". I once had an airline pilot tell me he wished he knew what I did so he could change jobs (if he only knew) Would I take my job over being an airline pilot? Oh heck no...ok, maybe

  9. #9
    I used to work as a technician in a small company with 30 client computers and 2 servers. In general I was respected a lot by my co-workers as I resolved their problems quickly and promptly. I often got job offers from other companies when working there for higher pay, but remained faithfull

    It was enjoyable work for the most part, but silly tech support questions got on my nerves.

    e.g... Co-worker: "Why is my printer not working" Me: "Turn it on please".

    Unfortunately, they relied too heavily on me most occasions to contemplate actually using their brains.
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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Webdude

    When I am called into such a home, I walk in confident. They may be better than me in public on the street because they have more money than me.... but right there, in "their" homes, I am better than them because I have the knowledge. I easily talk above them and bring them down a few notches, suddenly, they are looking up to me. And I enjoy it

    So, they treat me as an equal. Many actually become human and act quite humble. Funny how their roles change when they dont have a clear advantage. They tend to be pretty cool. I cleared a few spyware off one's computer, took about $30 minutes. She asked how much she owed, I said $475. She said ok and started writing a check. I stopped her and told I was joking, it was only $75. She wrote the check for $500. I asked why, she said because she wants to be a premium client that I rush to and get problems fixed for. I told her that costs $600, but she didnt go for it
    This is very true... I frequently have clients overpay me and say "hey I just want to make sure I'm taking care of you, don't want to lose you to some other client" They always do things like that. They know how hard it is to find good tech support even in this metro area I live in.

    I am in college right now, once I graduate I plan on taking it full-time. I'm really liking the business courses in college, accounting/management etc. Those are things I really didn't have much grasp on and will definitely help me run my business. All the CSIS classes I'm taking are interesting but a lot is just review but there are some interesting concepts and theories and more in-depth things which I really like. The in-depth history is also very interesting to learn IMO.

    Anyways.. It is all about the professionalism and being respectful, but I never talk down to my clients, I don't need to make myself feel superior to them in any way, that is ridiculous. Everyone has some skill in something. I always treat my clients like gold, never would I want to "bring them down a few notches", If I did that i'm sure they'd be rid of my pompous *** in a few months when they found a replacement. Be humble and you will find yourself getting more work than you can handle.

  11. #11
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    Maybe all the outsourcing in the industry?

    I used to work years ago - programming work in the 'old' mainframes - and computer programmers commanded a high salary and were much respected.

    Those days are gone. Much of our company was outsourced.

    I'm surprised these days, people don't want to pay for internet web work, when it takes a ton of time and can be a headache and is a skill! And it takes time to learn the techniques, which oftentimes change just when you learn them. They won't think anything of paying someone a few dollars to fix their TV but want free website work. I don't know exactly why.

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  12. #12
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    When you have 12 year olds getting their A+, CCNA, and other certifications, you can throw the term "Professional" out the window...

    "Professional" Industries have standards, boards and regulatory commissions that certify the people as professionals. When every company out there has their own certifications (MSCE, CCNA, NOVELL etc) there is some standardization, but not really the same level as an MCAT or BAR exam.

  13. #13
    Here's my view on it..and it can be compared to doctors fairly well, there really aren't many if any overall computer experts, with all the new software/hardware emerging daily, its IMPOSSIBLE to be an expert in everything.. Just like doctors. Do you have doctors that do everything? Nope, there are then specialists.. I consider an EXPERT a person that knows EVERYTHING in their field period..

    I am sure that many people here even consider themselves a computer expert, and I hate to tell you your not..

    There's software out there that you have never used, there is hardware out there that you've never seen..The day someone can teach a class how to use software they have never used before, as well as fully re-write windows/linux/mac and troubleshoot a motherboard problem down to a cooked capicitor you're simply not an expert.
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  14. #14
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    My two cents:

    People don't really understand the implication of computer "experts", such as software developers. They know what a doctor does (in a broad sense, not necessarily what each specialisation involves) but computers are very much an enigma - few understand the processes that are involved in creating software/hardware, administering applications etc. As we know it is a complex field well worthy of respect - but I think the greatest respect for anyone in the industry come from peers, not anyone outside of the sphere.

  15. #15
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    It's the nature of the industry.

    When was the last time you called up the phone company and thanked them for a continuous dial tone.

    People don't really care or need to care about how the plumbing works to get their e-mail from one end to the other. I've been a Communications Officer for 15 years and have done every aspect of Comm and IT from guys talking radio to radio in the desert to complex, 500 mile systems that support an entire theater of operations comm and IT needs.

    IT is a commodity. It is a means to accomplish an end: mission success. Folks who are trying to accomplish their mission only think about IT when it hinders them from getting a job done and not when it helps.

    IT folks have to get used to not being in the limelight and getting the satisfaction from knowing that, at best, people never complain because the systems are always well planned for and redundant and outages never occur. At the end of the day, however, I've gotten used to the standard "Comm Sucks" from the operators even though they haven't got a clue as to how hard it is to do well and that it really was pretty solid.

    So, even if you have an advanced degree in IT, don't expect to have kids coming up to you and asking for your autograph. IT isn't the "black art" it used to be in the Wild West days of the 90's when some guy could parlay his limited knowledge of routers into an $80K a year income. Good IT pros are increasingly easy to come by and it is the value added that will make the difference in the long run.

    At best, the profession will always be like the phone company. Did you call them yet to thank them for that dial tone?
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  16. #16
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    IMO, status comes down to your income - the car you drive, the house you live in - your general lifestyle. If you're driving a Merc, living in a million dollar house, have a nice 6 figure income, and have next to no debt, then you have status, and can easily rub shoulders with the doctors or whoever. Your occupation won't neccesarily give you "status", whereas your income and lifestyle will.
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  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Trifolic

    There's software out there that you have never used, there is hardware out there that you've never seen..The day someone can teach a class how to use software they have never used before, as well as fully re-write windows/linux/mac and troubleshoot a motherboard problem down to a cooked capicitor you're simply not an expert.
    Well then... by your "standards"... there are simply NO experts. You don't need to know every application and every piece of hardware... that reminds me of some lame trade school for PC "experts" or something.... Experts are those who know the theories and based on the theories they can apply them to anything... they take a bottom-up approach. Whereas your ideology about "experts" assumes a top-down approach, which would be very bad IMO for an "expert".


    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    IMO, status comes down to your income - the car you drive, the house you live in - your general lifestyle. If you're driving a Merc, living in a million dollar house, have a nice 6 figure income, and have next to no debt, then you have status, and can easily rub shoulders with the doctors or whoever. Your occupation won't neccesarily give you "status", whereas your income and lifestyle will.
    thanks... that was one of the funniest things I have read in a while.

  18. #18
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    The post was about professionals and not experts but, nevertheless, for the record:

    Main Entry: expert
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: specialist
    Synonyms: ace, adept, artist, artiste, authority, buff, connoisseur, doyen, gnome, graduate, guru, hot shot, master, maven, old hand, old pro, phenom, pro, professional, proficient, shark, virtuoso, whiz, wizard

    Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
    Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

    I really like the term maven.
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  19. #19
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    lol, how on earth was this dug up? Although a very good read... thanks guys

  20. #20
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    I tell you what, when someone calls up a plumber they don't balk at paying him $80 - $150 per hour to fix their problems.

    They pay the same to the appliance repair guy.

    They pay similar to the furnance guy.

    But when there computer system is a wreck and they want me to come and "fix" it, they act like I should come to their house for free!
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by esh
    . . . thanks... that was one of the funniest things I have read in a while.
    No need to insult that which you do not agree with. Here's a tip - rather than posting a sarcastic and rude reply, why not explain why you don't agree with it? But then again, you college kids know it all these days.
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    No need to insult that which you do not agree with. Here's a tip - rather than posting a sarcastic and rude reply, why not explain why you don't agree with it? But then again, you college kids know it all these days.
    Whelp, I found it funny too - but only because it's true.
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  23. #23
    Originally posted by CTG
    Most of the job fields you listed require some formal education. Computer professionals often have years of experience but little formal training.

    But the real problem is that there are too many computer people that label themselves as "experts" but know very little about the profession. Their saturation into the employment market has devalued IT professionals in general. I've had the displeasure of working with them side-by-side at various locations. I've observed people that entered the IT field seeking higher pay and prestige only to find they didn't like the field, and they stay in the field becuase they're afraid to change to something else.

    It isn't helping that larger vendors are outsourcing their support to people they called "technical support" but are little more than mindless script-reading zombies. To a layman they're as much a computer professional as the IT department at the office.

    This is an interesting topic, I'm sure there are other reasons I'm not thinking of. I hope others share.
    Amen.

    And I guarantee, half of the people here are exactly the same. They saturate our industry, rendering the need for techs non existant. They pretend they know what they don't, and do more harm than good.
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  24. #24
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    I have to agree that the "status as a professional" is in a decline. But that is for many reasons.
    1. I have lost track of the number of poorly attired "computer professionals" I've run across. Showing up wearing your "Got Root" tee shirt, dirty jeans and sneakers is not going to leave a professional image in any ones mind.
    2. Talking down to your client(s). A true professional will always be able to explain something in plain english. Someone that resorts to techno-babble is usually covering up the fact that they don't understand it themselves.
    3. Not knowing your limits. A professional will admit when they are over their head and seek help. The typical hit and run "computer guy" that I clean up after will totally trash a network in their blundering attempts.
    4. Sometimes the answer is no. A professional will rather lose a potential client than do something that is stupid or wrong. Your typical "I know a cheap computer guy" will do anything for a buck.

    Yes, there are a lot of low priced hacks out there and sadly way too many people get burnt by them. Eventually most people learn that there is a certain price that has to be paid for quality.
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  25. #25
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    Hmm....

    How did this old thread get dug up?

    Still, everyone made good points to the debate, coming from different prespectives and all.

    While what Aussie Bob said about income is true to a certain limit, if you inherit your dad's cash, spend like a playboy, have no manners, is unable to hold a intelligent, serious conversation, I wouldn't call that status. Also, when you go to a Lawyer, you expect to pay, cause they have high status. When you introduce yourself as a doctor, people cast a different glance at you.

    Now, try introducing yourself as a Software Engineer.

    What trau said is very true too. It just reminds me of lecturers in my University. They walk into the lecture teather, dressed in such a way that just screams: I AM SUPER-GEEK at you. Then again, they are in a University, lecturing super-geeks wanna-bes, so...

    While it makes plenty of sense, it still does not really answer why the real professionals, software engineers, big time network admins etc. who do dress well, who can answer questions by clients, who know their limits etc. do not enjoy the status of say, civil or mechanical engineers.
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by freak
    . . . While what Aussie Bob said about income is true to a certain limit, if you inherit your dad's cash, spend like a playboy, have no manners, is unable to hold a intelligent, serious conversation, I wouldn't call that status.
    I was more referring self made millionaires, and successful business people, with high incomes and great lifestyles. Status is not so much what you do, but how much money you make, and your accompanying lifestyle, imo. Take for example one of the richest men in my state. He could barely read, left school when he was 13, but made his fortune through real estate and property development. He's worth more than $150 Million bucks, and he has some serious status!
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  27. #27
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    Originally posted by freak
    While it makes plenty of sense, it still does not really answer why the real professionals, software engineers, big time network admins etc. who do dress well, who can answer questions by clients, who know their limits etc. do not enjoy the status of say, civil or mechanical engineers.
    I think there are a few reasons for the difference in perception (and by the way it's not like women are throwing their underwear at Engineers in general; engineers in general don't have a lot of status)

    1. Engineering as a discipline has been around for a couple of centuries not (sidebar plug: My alma matter, RPI, was the first engineering school in North America, but I digress). The discipline is well established and has shown its worth time and again in the design of everything we use and rely on for technology.

    2. While there is some hard engineering in software and computer work, much of network admin and other IT professional work is not really "engineering" in the strictest sense so it's hard to compare status in that regard. Most computer professionals learn the ins and outs of something someone else designed and then become experts at using its capabilities. This is not meant to be pejorative in pointing that out as it takes a great deal of intelligence and patience to be really good with routers, server OS's, and information technology in general but system admin is not, in the end, "engineering".

    3. I think that many still respect the academic rigor and difficulty in attaining an engineering degree. To be skilled in math, physics, chemistry, materials, mechanics, and a host of other disciplines is not for the faint of heart. Those that succeed and have a knack for it are very highly prized for their problem solving skills.

    4. There are a host of standardized bodies that certify engineers (and not just vendor specific certs). Honor societies and professional, peer reviewed publications abound. Network folks still have a lot of "learned it myself, anti-establishment" edge to them. You can't even get licensed as an engineer unless you have a degree and go through some wickets.

    Anyway, those come to mind. I'm sure some will interpret this as: Engineers are better than System Administrators. While this is certainly true , that's not really the point. Rather, I just wanted to note why the "profession" has a bit more status. Of course that status still doesn't mean the guys that really run things think of the engineers as anything more than a bunch of useful geeks but they are paid well.
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  28. #28
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    I think it all comes down to the fact that prolly 90% of anybody over the age of 12 knows a decent amount about computers. With most of them being about to install software and new hardware and fix problems to some degree.

    Whens the last time you had your 12 year old..........

    Fix the tranny in your car?

    Give grandma an operation?

    Put new outlets in the kitchen?

    Put in new plumming?

    Sell your house?

    Give advice to the depressed lady down the street?


    I love computers, I like working on them, messing with them. Its all good. But if you are looking to be some sort of person that when people see you they say "OMG thats him". You need to be Bill Gates or get a new career.

    Oh and add in the fact that most people dont "need" ( and we are talking individials NOT corperations ) computers like they need electricity, plumbing, a new heart that sort of thing. If you dont need it than its just silly entertainment.

  29. #29
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    Umm, I don't think we're talking about the basics of computers - i.e. installing hardware/software, but the actual professionals that develop the products, aren't we? I have no respect for the former but for the latter, for anyone at the top of their field they are quite obviously geniuses deserving of recognition.

    I hope that made sense

  30. #30
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    Ya I understand that. But....... "everybody" can do it. Its all about perception. And if "everybody" can do it than you dont have much of a profession do you?

    Another problem is people have no idea what a network engineer is, much less any other high end job in the industry. But they most certainaly have an Idea what a doctor or lawyer is.

  31. #31
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    No, "everybody" cannot do it. It's as simple as that.

  32. #32
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    Originally posted by 2Guns
    Ya I understand that. But....... "everybody" can do it. Its all about perception. And if "everybody" can do it than you dont have much of a profession do you?

    Another problem is people have no idea what a network engineer is, much less any other high end job in the industry. But they most certainaly have an Idea what a doctor or lawyer is.

    Yup "everybody" thinks they can do it. I make my best money undoing the damage caused by "everybody".
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  33. #33
    Originally posted by Trifolic

    There's software out there that you have never used, there is hardware out there that you've never seen..The day someone can teach a class how to use software they have never used before, as well as fully re-write windows/linux/mac and troubleshoot a motherboard problem down to a cooked capicitor you're simply not an expert.
    Just wanted to add to this insane statement.

    I guarantee the majority of "the best brains" down at Microsoft and google could not "troubleshoot a motherboard problem down to a cooked capacitator" that is insane. Everyone in the computer industry, whom is either a self proclaimed professional, or an expert period has a different role. From server admins to programmers, not knowing every single detail down to a core hardware level does not make them any less of an expert at what they do. That statement just proves your immaturity and how naive you are in the computing world.
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  34. #34
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    Do not misinterpert my posts, I think there are alot of very qualified, very smart people in the computer industry. And many who prolly should get some recognition.

    However, my point was that the average person probably doesnt see it as a highly trained skill.

  35. #35
    Originally posted by Jeff - Exceed
    Just wanted to add to this insane statement.

    I guarantee the majority of "the best brains" down at Microsoft and google could not "troubleshoot a motherboard problem down to a cooked capacitator" that is insane. Everyone in the computer industry, whom is either a self proclaimed professional, or an expert period has a different role. From server admins to programmers, not knowing every single detail down to a core hardware level does not make them any less of an expert at what they do. That statement just proves your immaturity and how naive you are in the computing world.
    No it does not, it proves how realistic I am, we will take doctors into account here because their field can be broken down to a comparable level in the computing industry.

    You have an Expert Cardiologist doctor, aka (Specialist), you have pediatrics, you have brain surgens etc.. They are all doctors that are experts in their section of being a doctor, however I don't know of any doctors that are experts across the board

    Same goes with computers, you have programming experts, you have hardware experts, you have software experts, you have networking experts etc.. The list goes on, and just like doctors they are experts in their own section of the profession..

    I don't know where you get off calling me immature and naive when my point/opinion is very valid lets try not to resort to name calling before we fully anaylze what someone has posted.
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  36. #36
    Originally posted by Trifolic
    No it does not, it proves how realistic I am, we will take doctors into account here because their field can be broken down to a comparable level in the computing industry.

    You have an Expert Cardiologist doctor, aka (Specialist), you have pediatrics, you have brain surgens etc.. They are all doctors that are experts in their section of being a doctor, however I don't know of any doctors that are experts across the board

    Same goes with computers, you have programming experts, you have hardware experts, you have software experts, you have networking experts etc.. The list goes on, and just like doctors they are experts in their own section of the profession..

    I don't know where you get off calling me immature and naive when my point/opinion is very valid lets try not to resort to name calling before we fully anaylze what someone has posted.
    I did fully analyze what you said, and the general consensus was you have to know how to replace a resistor on a motherboard upwards to knowing how to recode an entire OS to be classed as an expert. Roles in the IT field are very different, E.G sysadmin is to Paramedic as programmer is to doctor, they both work in the medical industry and both IT jobs work in the computing industry.

    Another example is American chopper, these guys build bikes, but just because they don't mould the engines doesn't mean they arn't experts at what they do. My points are comparisons of the different industries, and your points were not valid.

    bearing this all in mind, stating such a strongly worded post as you did, with no backup, then realising you didn't have a valid point only succeeded in making you look stupid, and proves you are naive thinking that you have to know how to build a motherboard to be an expert. I have nothing against you, but get your facts straight before making a presumptious claim.
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  37. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    508
    Originally posted by Trifolic

    I don't know where you get off calling me immature and naive when my point/opinion is very valid lets try not to resort to name calling before we fully anaylze what someone has posted.
    see... now you are trying to change what you originally typed and now reinterpret it to mean something else.

  38. #38
    Originally posted by Jeff - Exceed
    I did fully analyze what you said, and the general consensus was you have to know how to replace a resistor on a motherboard upwards to knowing how to recode an entire OS to be classed as an expert. Roles in the IT field are very different, E.G sysadmin is to Paramedic as programmer is to doctor, they both work in the medical industry and both IT jobs work in the computing industry.

    Another example is American chopper, these guys build bikes, but just because they don't mould the engines doesn't mean they arn't experts at what they do. My points are comparisons of the different industries, and your points were not valid.

    bearing this all in mind, stating such a strongly worded post as you did, with no backup, then realising you didn't have a valid point only succeeded in making you look stupid, and proves you are naive thinking that you have to know how to build a motherboard to be an expert. I have nothing against you, but get your facts straight before making a presumptious claim.
    Ok, since this seems like a pointless debate and you seem to keep falling on personal insults I will make one last statement

    Expert: A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.

    http://www.bartleby.com/61/68/E0286800.html

    Computers in general contain "Many subjects" Programming, hardware, software, networking etc..

    So in order to be an expert in "Computers" you would HAVE to have a high degree of skill or knowledge in all aspects or subjects of computers..

    Yes there are Experts in networking, experts in programming, experts in hardware and so forth, but there are not experts in "Computers" as a whole.

    That was my whole point from the begining, its not a "bold, naive, immature, or stupid statement." So lets drop the name calling ok?
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  39. #39
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,548
    Originally posted by DevilDog
    The post was about professionals and not experts but, nevertheless, for the record:

    Main Entry: expert
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: specialist
    Synonyms: ace, adept, artist, artiste, authority, buff, connoisseur, doyen, gnome, graduate, guru, hot shot, master, maven, old hand, old pro, phenom, pro, professional, proficient, shark, virtuoso, whiz, wizard

    Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
    Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

    I really like the term maven.
    Correction.

    An 'Ex' is a has been
    a 'Spurt' is a drip under pressure.

    I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.
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  40. #40
    I don’t think so, ‘cause if you are really a professional at your work, you will always get the status you deserve!

    But the main problem at computer field is that, every Tom, Dick and Harry claims himself to be a hacker or some thing of that sort, if he gets to know a bit more than the normal computer user…. This illusion really spoils the cream of the profession…

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