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  #1  
Old 04-13-2005, 06:12 PM
Barti1987 Barti1987 is offline
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Cannibalist Eats Computer Specialists (YahooNews)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo! News
By Sabine Siebold

KARLSRUHE, Germany (Reuters) - A German cannibal and prosecutors launched rival appeals at Germany's top criminal court Wednesday against his manslaughter conviction for killing and eating a willing victim.


Reuters Photo



Armin Meiwes was sentenced to eight and a half years in January 2004 after a gory case that both fascinated and repulsed Germany and the world.


Meiwes admitted to killing a Berlin computer specialist, Bernd-Juergen B, he met via the Internet, but was spared a murder verdict as the victim had asked to be eaten in a startling case of sexual fetishism.


Meiwes recorded the deed on video tape and shocked the court with his matter-of-fact account of how he severed the man's penis at the latter's request, and how they both tried to eat it, first raw and then fried in a saucepan.


Prosecutors believe the initial ruling and sentence were inadequate and said they wanted judges to convict Meiwes of murder as he had killed his victim to satisfy perverted desires.


"For the accused, it was only about fulfilling his fetish for human flesh," state prosecutor Lothar Senge told Germany's Federal Court of Justice.


"He will kill again if he gets the chance," he said.


Meiwes' lawyer Harald Ermel instead urged a conviction on the lesser charge of "killing on request," a form of illegal euthanasia that carries a maximum five year sentence.


Both Meiwes and prosecutors want the case sent back to a lower court.


The Federal Criminal Court will give its verdict on April 22. If it does refer the case back, it would likely indicate whether the initial ruling was too lenient or too harsh.


Ermel told the court that Meiwes, who was not present, was intelligent and would not commit the same mistake again.


"You can assume that he has learned," he said.


He added that Meiwes' sole motive was to carry out the wishes of his victim, rather than due to other "base motives."


"Meiwes was the man who satisfied desires. He was always the one who did what the others wanted," he said.


The victim had ended his life with a "beautiful death" according to his wishes, Ermel said.


"Mr B. took part in his own killing and was the driving force of the whole thing," Ermel said.


A German filmmaker announced plans last year to make a movie about the German cannibal. With the working title "Your Heart in my Brain," it has already received funding from a regional film foundation.
The guy was willing to be eaten... does it mean its ok?

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  #2  
Old 04-13-2005, 06:19 PM
Dan L Dan L is offline
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Suicide is illegal, so why should this be legal?

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  #3  
Old 04-13-2005, 06:25 PM
Barti1987 Barti1987 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanX
Suicide is illegal, so why should this be legal?
As so is gay marriages in many states...

but shouldnt you have the right to your life?

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  #4  
Old 04-13-2005, 06:41 PM
SniperDevil SniperDevil is offline
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This is thoroughly disgusting and it creeps me out, but if the victim wanted to be eaten and die as was stated by the defendant, I suppose it's not as bad. However, I surely wouldn't want to be the coroner.

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  #5  
Old 04-13-2005, 07:41 PM
Webdude Webdude is offline
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We always talk about people's "rights". As in recent threads, the right for businesses to refuse clients (which I am for), the right for gay marriage (which I am against), etc, etc. Just my views. Yet, the biggest view I have is that why is suicide illegal?? It's "their" life.

Dont get me wrong, I am totally against suicide. What few religious beliefs I have include that I believe suicide is the one unforgivable sin.... I could never do it myself because of that belief, but I dont think the government has a right to make that decision for people and deem it illegal.

It should be a person's right to die, live, or whatever.. The only ones that shouldnt have that right are those convicted of crimes and are currently serving time.

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  #6  
Old 04-13-2005, 07:53 PM
Dan L Dan L is offline
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azizny, I was speaking more to rationalize than debate. This and suicide are pretty much the same.

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  #7  
Old 04-13-2005, 07:56 PM
SniperDevil SniperDevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Webdude
It should be a person's right to die, live, or whatever.. The only ones that shouldnt have that right are those convicted of crimes and are currently serving time.
Why shouldn't they have the choice between life and death? Isn't the idea of locking somebody up in jail or prison so they won't be in normal society and be able to do what they did again? To teach wrong from right, and help them to get better? Since when was it intended to "punish" and agonize people for their wrongs? If somebody murdered your son or wife, would you really want them punished? Wouldn't you feel bad that they were being punished too? It would be like an extra burden on your shoulder, if you really think about it. Recently I have been subjected to such a philosophy by someone whose tape I listen to (I think she has some great insight and can really make people feel a lot better about things in their lives that they don't understand or dislike), and it has really grown on me to the point that I actually subscribe to it. There is a certain burden that comes with punishing someone, oddly and somewhat ironically enough. For instance, when you punish your son, do you feel good about doing it? Does it make you, personally, feel good, seeing your son suffer like that? I don't think so, and I think it is the same for prisoners who have done wrongs in their lives. It is one thing to separate people from normal, functioning society for fear that they might do that thing again, or to help them get better, but it seems that nowadays the debate is whether one should be executed by the state; not even whether life imprisonment and similar punishment is too severe or cruel and unusual. We're past that, now it's about whether to kill someone or let them live. Pretty awful stuff to me.

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  #8  
Old 04-13-2005, 08:30 PM
Webdude Webdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SniperDevil
Why shouldn't they have the choice between life and death? Isn't the idea of locking somebody up in jail or prison so they won't be in normal society and be able to do what they did again? To teach wrong from right, and help them to get better? Since when was it intended to "punish" and agonize people for their wrongs? If somebody murdered your son or wife, would you really want them punished? Wouldn't you feel bad that they were being punished too? It would be like an extra burden on your shoulder, if you really think about it. Recently I have been subjected to such a philosophy by someone whose tape I listen to (I think she has some great insight and can really make people feel a lot better about things in their lives that they don't understand or dislike), and it has really grown on me to the point that I actually subscribe to it. There is a certain burden that comes with punishing someone, oddly and somewhat ironically enough. For instance, when you punish your son, do you feel good about doing it? Does it make you, personally, feel good, seeing your son suffer like that? I don't think so, and I think it is the same for prisoners who have done wrongs in their lives. It is one thing to separate people from normal, functioning society for fear that they might do that thing again, or to help them get better, but it seems that nowadays the debate is whether one should be executed by the state; not even whether life imprisonment and similar punishment is too severe or cruel and unusual. We're past that, now it's about whether to kill someone or let them live. Pretty awful stuff to me.
If somebody murdered a relative of mine, I think they should spend time in prison. If someone murdered several people, I especially believe so. They shouldnt have the right to get off in such an easy manner as suicide. Kill a bunch of people, escape the law with suicide. Just shouldnt be that easy.

As for my son, I dont feel bad for disciplining him. I feel bad that he's making me do it. I feel good about it that I am teaching him the right thing by showing him there are consequences to his actions. He gets more of what he wants if he does good, it gets taken away if he does bad.

As for exocution, I'm divided. One one hand, I believe it is merely an easy way out for someone who's harmed or killed a lot of people. On the other hand, I think prison has gotten soft and it's a waste of taxpayer money. They sit there and play video games and watch cable TV. They should be busting the equivelent of a football stadium full of boulders down into sand for each life they take. Not get free cable that is paid out of my taxes. I dont believe violent criminals should have "any" rights while in prison, which includes the right to death.

Everyone else "should" have that right...

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  #9  
Old 04-13-2005, 08:49 PM
Disgruntled Disgruntled is offline
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If someone is willing to agree to be killed and eaten, maybe society has a duty to try to protect that person from those who would take advantage of that willingness.

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  #10  
Old 04-13-2005, 09:32 PM
SniperDevil SniperDevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Webdude
If somebody murdered a relative of mine, I think they should spend time in prison. If someone murdered several people, I especially believe so. They shouldnt have the right to get off in such an easy manner as suicide. Kill a bunch of people, escape the law with suicide. Just shouldnt be that easy.
For what should they spend time in prison? Murdering your relative, so as a way of "revenge"; punishment? Or for a different reason?

Quote:
Originally posted by Webdude
As for my son, I dont feel bad for disciplining him. I feel bad that he's making me do it. I feel good about it that I am teaching him the right thing by showing him there are consequences to his actions. He gets more of what he wants if he does good, it gets taken away if he does bad.
I understand your trying to rationalize the fact that yes, you are teaching him the differences between right and wrong actions, but I was asking specifically about seeing him while he's experiencing the punishment that you so dole out. It's not very fun, even for me, not being a father or anything, to have to discipline a family friend's son and see the look on his face or what he's going through if he does something bad or inappropriate, and I can only imagine how multiplied that feeling would be if it were my own son. It doesn't make me feel any better about anything; so, in the end, does the end justify the means, or do the means justify the end? Are people who are punished more or less likely to do what they did originally? That would obviously depend on the person, their crime (or societal taboo, if it's not illegal), and your point of view. My opinion is, in general, it will only make both parties (and possibly a third) feel bad about things, may or may not encourage a normal return to a decent place in society, and may not even discourage the person from doing what they originally did again. There have been many instances in which an inmate was paroled, only to murder, rape, assault, burglarize, rob, or otherwise harm society again. Actually, there's one right now who's been publicized a lot in the past few days. He got out of prison for kidnapping, and apparently couldn't handle life on the outside, so he strangled the woman with whom he was living, raped her daughter, and shot a man in the head nearby.

People seem to be satisfied with prison because they feel a sense of revenge, that they are punishing this person for their wrongs, and now they have to suffer. However, it often backfires, as I have mentioned above. I believe we should isolate people from society not to punish, but to reverse, help, and mend "wounds", so to speak. People are people, regardless of whether they heinously slaughtered ten individuals, and we should treat them as such. We all have the same anatomy, and we all have the same features; some of us just are a little "unacceptable" to the rest of humanity.

Quote:
Originally posted by Webdude
As for exocution, I'm divided. One one hand, I believe it is merely an easy way out for someone who's harmed or killed a lot of people. On the other hand, I think prison has gotten soft and it's a waste of taxpayer money. They sit there and play video games and watch cable TV. They should be busting the equivelent of a football stadium full of boulders down into sand for each life they take. Not get free cable that is paid out of my taxes. I dont believe violent criminals should have "any" rights while in prison, which includes the right to death.

Everyone else "should" have that right...
If anything, prison is an easy way out for the rest of society, the supposedly "functioning" and "sane" population, those who are considered innocent and having committed no crime in the eyes of the government. But who are the real criminals, those who are locking and pleading and demanding and cheering and begging and protesting to have criminals executed, or the criminals themselves? I understand these people have committed no physical crime or wrong, but they have often caused irreversible and permanent emotional effects upon both those around whom the debate is centered and themselves, with their lifelong ideology of hate, skepticism, and bitterness towards the world and themselves.

Why not do more to help fix the problems where they lie, rather than letting their containers rot and go unnoticed in an eight by five foot prison cell? Maybe then these people will have more of a chance, an opportunity, to return to normal society, and be a fully functioning, participating member of society, and a great human being, as well.

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  #11  
Old 04-13-2005, 09:51 PM
IvialisRyan IvialisRyan is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanX
Suicide is illegal, so why should this be legal?
I've always wondered--what is the punishment for unsuccessfully trying to commit suicide? Is it ever carried out? And does it get worse for repeat offenders?

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  #12  
Old 04-13-2005, 10:15 PM
Webdude Webdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvialisRyan
I've always wondered--what is the punishment for unsuccessfully trying to commit suicide? Is it ever carried out? And does it get worse for repeat offenders?
You get the lethal injection for attempted murder

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  #13  
Old 04-13-2005, 10:21 PM
Wulex Wulex is offline
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can you send me a link?


also,
Quote:
I've always wondered--what is the punishment for unsuccessfully trying to commit suicide? Is it ever carried out? And does it get worse for repeat offenders?
I believe its 3rd? or 1st degree murder, whichever is least offensive, and its insanity too. or its just the latter.

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  #14  
Old 04-13-2005, 10:22 PM
Webdude Webdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SniperDevil
For what should they spend time in prison? Murdering your relative, so as a way of "revenge"; punishment? Or for a different reason?
I'm not sure what you are getting at? Are you saying that someone kills kills people doesnt know he is doing wrong, and that rehab in prison a few years with regular visits to the shrink will make him ok?

I can see how under certain scenarios of how the murder was done, someone could be rehabilitated, but certainly not other cases, and especially not with someone who has murdered 2+ people. For example, someone who ran over a kid because he was too busy with his cell phone or radio is one thing. Someone who for years rapes and kills women is another....plus everything in between.

Put simply, who in your life do you love the most? Wife? Mother? Sister? If she was raped, beaten, and killed, what would you have the law do to him? It seems to me you are sayin a few years in the pen, some head shrink visits, and then released.... correct me if I'm wrong.

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