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what i am doing about a paypal dispute

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  #1  
Old 02-18-2005, 06:14 PM
Project X Project X is offline
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what i am doing about a paypal dispute


i had this guy contact me, saying he found me here at WHT. he wanted some phpbb icons designed for his forum.

first he makes it sounded like he wanted an entire set, so i gave him a low per icon quote, assuming he actually wanted to entire set. then he said he only wants two. ok fine... so i sent over the paypal invoice and he pays it...

he stated to me that he wanted the icons design INTEGRATED with the subsilver design but he wanted his logo put in it. ok fine we do that (i hire out for this) then he says he is REALLY pleased blah blah blah (ya i have all the emails)

then he sends me a link to the winamp forums and says he changed his mind that he wants them like theirs. ok fine, so i have the guy do that. then he says he wants them 16x16 and so on... i warn the client that this was NOT going to look good. but he didnt care.

so, the guy says, sorry i dont like those, ill just go ahead and take the first set you made.

ok fine. then the problems start, he starts calling, he starts emailing asking for a refund, although my site clearly states that we have a no refund policy. i responded once informing him of how he signed off on it and that the graphics person was paid and that we dont work for free!

so of course, i just get a paypal email, luckily, i talked to paypal and they are on my side because of the type of claim he filed, saying it was a product and he never received it, that is fraudulent!

in any event, looks like this will go my way, but in the event that it doesnt, ill simply take the guy to collections!

i dont know why people think they can change their mind several times and get endless amounts of revisions!

just curious what you guys normally do when someone tries to do this.


__________________
if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!


Last edited by Project X; 02-18-2005 at 06:19 PM.


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  #2  
Old 02-18-2005, 08:10 PM
websites4u2day websites4u2day is offline
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Do as you are doing. Get everything in writing. It seems that people do not want to pay for anything these days. I have noticed that so many people think that since a web designer or developer does something - they enjoy it. Well we might enjoy it, but it does take time as well

You should be commended by having them sign a contract - you probably learned the hard way, though?

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  #3  
Old 02-18-2005, 08:47 PM
CyberAlien CyberAlien is offline
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I've had few clients (also phpBB styles related) who changed their mind. If client changes his mind its fine with me, if he changes his mind for second time I prefer to dump that client. All trouble with clients who don't know what they want not worth effort.

If amount of money is small (and I guess it is small for 2 icons) then I suggest to refund it. You'll loose some money because you payed designer, but all headache caused by bad clients not worth few $$.

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  #4  
Old 02-18-2005, 11:24 PM
Corey Bryant Corey Bryant is offline
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It is amazing to me that people sign a contract, agree to something, and then decide something different. People think they can get away with anything.

Laura, you might want to consider updating your TOS at least: Sell Your Chargebacks Now!

  #5  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:59 AM
Project X Project X is offline
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there was no signature, per se

__________________
if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  #6  
Old 02-19-2005, 09:20 AM
dollar dollar is offline
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The problem with using paypal for digital goods is that they do not cover them and the buyer usually has all of the power. You are doing the right thing and I truly wish you the best of luck in your dispute, obviously you deserve to win it.

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  #7  
Old 02-19-2005, 09:56 AM
Project X Project X is offline
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thanks

while i cant say for sure what the client is going to do with the stuff we provided to him, i CAN say that he indicated TWICE that he was happy and that he was going to use the first "integrated" set that he paid for.

at that point, the designer was paid.

__________________
if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  #8  
Old 02-19-2005, 11:45 AM
Corey Bryant Corey Bryant is offline
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Is he using them on his website?

  #9  
Old 02-19-2005, 12:03 PM
Project X Project X is offline
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i have no idea if he is now, or if he is going to.

how does anyone know?

maybe he has another site?

who knows...

i just think it is kind of ironic how people try to lie to paypal in order to get money back. i guess they dont relaize it counts against THEM and not the seller.

__________________
if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  #10  
Old 02-19-2005, 12:23 PM
Corey Bryant Corey Bryant is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Castle Pines, CO
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I could not agree with you more. I was working with a few people from this board actually myself - they were helping with support and sales. All signed a contract, worked one month and got paid. And then never heard from them again. I have now gotten to the point where I now call for references. I can almost see this being done even in cases like yours.

Currently, we only take on work that has been referred to us. So we do not have these types of problems (yet).

  #11  
Old 02-19-2005, 12:28 PM
Project X Project X is offline
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well this rarely happens to us and im not going to let it effect my business.

it wasnt for a great deal of money, but of course, it is the principal.

__________________
if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  #12  
Old 02-20-2005, 01:09 AM
HostBlimp.com HostBlimp.com is offline
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It is always good to take some money up front, then show your client watermarked images of what he will be buying. Then he pays the rest of the money for you to send him the unwatermarked images.

  #13  
Old 02-20-2005, 01:43 AM
dollar dollar is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by HostBlimp.com
It is always good to take some money up front, then show your client watermarked images of what he will be buying. Then he pays the rest of the money for you to send him the unwatermarked images.
Even that wouldn't have helped here, the client would have simply done a paypal reversal.

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  #14  
Old 02-20-2005, 03:49 AM
HostingInsider HostingInsider is offline
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Paypal is known to usually go with the buyer, unfortunately for you. Back when I had a $969 dispute over a custom computer, luckily I was able to work it out with the buyer over the phone and email and got him to cancel it. Good luck!

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  #15  
Old 02-20-2005, 10:15 AM
Project X Project X is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by HostBlimp.com
It is always good to take some money up front, then show your client watermarked images of what he will be buying. Then he pays the rest of the money for you to send him the unwatermarked images.
i always charge up front and this is exactly why.

he has already paid in full, then once that happened he wants to change all the terms several times.

either way, according to paypal, this is a dispute i am not going to lose. first because it is a virtual item, and secondly, because he lied saying that it wasnt a virtual item.

i do not like having any unhappy clients of course, but when he signs off on the job, then i pay the designer and then the guy changes his mind and expects more work for no extra money, thats when i nip it in the bud.

__________________
if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

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