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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Twin Cities Area
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    5,651

    what i am doing about a paypal dispute

    i had this guy contact me, saying he found me here at WHT. he wanted some phpbb icons designed for his forum.

    first he makes it sounded like he wanted an entire set, so i gave him a low per icon quote, assuming he actually wanted to entire set. then he said he only wants two. ok fine... so i sent over the paypal invoice and he pays it...

    he stated to me that he wanted the icons design INTEGRATED with the subsilver design but he wanted his logo put in it. ok fine we do that (i hire out for this) then he says he is REALLY pleased blah blah blah (ya i have all the emails)

    then he sends me a link to the winamp forums and says he changed his mind that he wants them like theirs. ok fine, so i have the guy do that. then he says he wants them 16x16 and so on... i warn the client that this was NOT going to look good. but he didnt care.

    so, the guy says, sorry i dont like those, ill just go ahead and take the first set you made.

    ok fine. then the problems start, he starts calling, he starts emailing asking for a refund, although my site clearly states that we have a no refund policy. i responded once informing him of how he signed off on it and that the graphics person was paid and that we dont work for free!

    so of course, i just get a paypal email, luckily, i talked to paypal and they are on my side because of the type of claim he filed, saying it was a product and he never received it, that is fraudulent!

    in any event, looks like this will go my way, but in the event that it doesnt, ill simply take the guy to collections!

    i dont know why people think they can change their mind several times and get endless amounts of revisions!

    just curious what you guys normally do when someone tries to do this.

    Last edited by Project X; 02-18-2005 at 06:19 PM.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!
      0 Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Do as you are doing. Get everything in writing. It seems that people do not want to pay for anything these days. I have noticed that so many people think that since a web designer or developer does something - they enjoy it. Well we might enjoy it, but it does take time as well

    You should be commended by having them sign a contract - you probably learned the hard way, though?
    John
      0 Not allowed!

  3. #3
    I've had few clients (also phpBB styles related) who changed their mind. If client changes his mind its fine with me, if he changes his mind for second time I prefer to dump that client. All trouble with clients who don't know what they want not worth effort.

    If amount of money is small (and I guess it is small for 2 icons) then I suggest to refund it. You'll loose some money because you payed designer, but all headache caused by bad clients not worth few $$.
      0 Not allowed!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Castle Pines, CO
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    7,189
    It is amazing to me that people sign a contract, agree to something, and then decide something different. People think they can get away with anything.

    Laura, you might want to consider updating your TOS at least: Sell Your Chargebacks Now!
      0 Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
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    there was no signature, per se
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!
      0 Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    5,765
    The problem with using paypal for digital goods is that they do not cover them and the buyer usually has all of the power. You are doing the right thing and I truly wish you the best of luck in your dispute, obviously you deserve to win it.
    Mike from Zoodia.com
    Professional web design and development services.
    In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
    Web design tips, tricks, and more at MichaelPruitt.com
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
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    thanks

    while i cant say for sure what the client is going to do with the stuff we provided to him, i CAN say that he indicated TWICE that he was happy and that he was going to use the first "integrated" set that he paid for.

    at that point, the designer was paid.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!
      0 Not allowed!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Castle Pines, CO
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    Is he using them on his website?
      0 Not allowed!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    i have no idea if he is now, or if he is going to.

    how does anyone know?

    maybe he has another site?

    who knows...

    i just think it is kind of ironic how people try to lie to paypal in order to get money back. i guess they dont relaize it counts against THEM and not the seller.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!
      0 Not allowed!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Castle Pines, CO
    Posts
    7,189
    I could not agree with you more. I was working with a few people from this board actually myself - they were helping with support and sales. All signed a contract, worked one month and got paid. And then never heard from them again. I have now gotten to the point where I now call for references. I can almost see this being done even in cases like yours.

    Currently, we only take on work that has been referred to us. So we do not have these types of problems (yet).
      0 Not allowed!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
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    5,651
    well this rarely happens to us and im not going to let it effect my business.

    it wasnt for a great deal of money, but of course, it is the principal.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!
      0 Not allowed!

  12. It is always good to take some money up front, then show your client watermarked images of what he will be buying. Then he pays the rest of the money for you to send him the unwatermarked images.
      0 Not allowed!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    5,765
    Originally posted by HostBlimp.com
    It is always good to take some money up front, then show your client watermarked images of what he will be buying. Then he pays the rest of the money for you to send him the unwatermarked images.
    Even that wouldn't have helped here, the client would have simply done a paypal reversal.
    Mike from Zoodia.com
    Professional web design and development services.
    In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
    Web design tips, tricks, and more at MichaelPruitt.com
      0 Not allowed!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,128
    Paypal is known to usually go with the buyer, unfortunately for you. Back when I had a $969 dispute over a custom computer, luckily I was able to work it out with the buyer over the phone and email and got him to cancel it. Good luck!
    Daily Updated Web Hosting News Blog
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Twin Cities Area
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    Originally posted by HostBlimp.com
    It is always good to take some money up front, then show your client watermarked images of what he will be buying. Then he pays the rest of the money for you to send him the unwatermarked images.
    i always charge up front and this is exactly why.

    he has already paid in full, then once that happened he wants to change all the terms several times.

    either way, according to paypal, this is a dispute i am not going to lose. first because it is a virtual item, and secondly, because he lied saying that it wasnt a virtual item.

    i do not like having any unhappy clients of course, but when he signs off on the job, then i pay the designer and then the guy changes his mind and expects more work for no extra money, thats when i nip it in the bud.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!
      0 Not allowed!

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