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  1. #1

    Bay Area Colocation??

    Hi,

    I'm new to the forums and found a vast amount of information. I realize this is a newbie question and I've used the search function, but can anyone help me with finding a decent colocation for an afforable price?

    Preferably approx. $50/mo 50-100gb data transfer for 1u of rackspace for colocation. This can vary, depending on a variety of things, but I would like to avoid the $99 since that seems to be the norm.. It would also be nice if the facilities were available in the Bay Area, North bay, South bay, and/or East bay.

    Some companies that I have come across...

    fastcolocation
    hostingandcolo
    servercentral
    servepath/coloserv

    I'd hope to get into a colocation facility like equinix or above.net or mzima.

    Please let me know if:
    a.) i'm smoking something and I can keep dreaming
    b.) a place where I can get that price
    c.) What is a realistic price for my requirements.

    I most likely would never reach my limit and would like to know if some places charge based on actual network usage...

    Thanks in advance...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    190
    For such small requirements, why do you feel the need for "Equinix-class" service (I use the term loosely...) Simpli.biz resells small colocation space at one of the AboveNet DC's in the Bay Area (I forget which) and Mzima does not do colocation themselves, though you might be able to find a colocation company who uses them (I don't know of any that do small commits such as the one you're requesting)

    My recommendation would be to go with fastcolocation - they're a widely known HE reseller and for your commit/price point, they'll probably be your best bet. Good luck.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    5,512
    SF Bay Area is a tough market to find cheap co-location, with maybe the exception of HE.

  4. #4
    I agree with the rest of the guys. If you're looking for a good value in the area for that level of bandwidth and rack space, and HE reseller may be your best bet.

    The rack space alone at many of the other facilities may cost more than the $50 or so that you've budgetted.
    Sitelutions: www.sitelutions.com -- Reliable Hosting, Low-Cost Domains, Dynamic DNS
    InfoRelay Online Systems, Inc.: www.inforelay.com
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  5. #5
    Thanks for the input... If in that case A Los Angeles provider would work for me also.

    hostingandcolo seem to the place to go. One Wilshire.

    Does anyone have input on the Cogent network? Is downtime REALLY that prevelent? A little downtime is okay. I'm not hosting anything mission critical, but I would like a reliable host.

    I understand the high cost, but from what I've read, the people on this board seem to know where to spot deals and if some deals are too good to be true they probably are.

  6. #6
    Cogent mainly just has a bad reputation. Sure, they have had problems in the past, but from what I have heard, they have gotten a lot better.

    We still don't sell any Cogent offerings, and if we were to do so any time soon, we would probably keep those separate from the rest of our network -- mainly due to the stigma associated with Cogent. It's really not so bad anymore, though there are a lot of people selling oversubscribed Cogent lines, which does detract from perceived quality.

    In any case, it really depends on your needs and your application. I would say that if you're not running a "mission-critical" business, and if you're not dealing with a customer base that demands a high-level of performance (low latency, jitter, etc.), Cogent isn't all that bad of a choice.

    Thanks,
    Russell
    Sitelutions: www.sitelutions.com -- Reliable Hosting, Low-Cost Domains, Dynamic DNS
    InfoRelay Online Systems, Inc.: www.inforelay.com
    Bulk Bandwidth Pricing, Unmetered Servers, Unbelievable Affordability -- Locations in: Ashburn, Los Angeles, Chicago, Reston, San Jose, Dallas, New York, Washington, DC.

  7. #7
    If you wanted Bay Area colo, I would suggest HeraklesData (www.heraklesdata.com) in Sacramento. Class A data center with N+5 redundancy and far far away from the nearest fault line.

    Granted it's inland and not within the Bay Area, but judging from your willingness to explore Los Angeles, it may not be a bad idea to check out the other oft overlooked gems within the Northern California region. RagingWire is another possible suggestion.
    Adam

  8. #8

    Thumbs up

    Thanks for the input. This site has already proven very valuable for information gathering for me.

    I don't see any place that mentions pricing or colocation availability for the herkeles data center.

    Once again, thank you for bringing that data center to my attention.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    190
    Originally posted by MrManager
    Class A data center with N+5 redundancy and far far away from the nearest fault line.
    N+5?

  10. #10
    While I'm at it,

    Can anyone explain 512kbs in the 95th percentile? How pricing works with that schema?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco/Hot Springs
    Posts
    988
    Paul Vixie (the guy who wrote BIND) has a list of places that do cheap 1U colo.
    http://www.vix.com/personalcolo/

    Thats probably a good way to start
    Also, check your PM when you get a chance.

  12. #12
    N+5 (necessary + 5)

    This figure has to do with redundancy, whether that means power, cooling, generator fueling, bandwidth, etc etc.

    N stands for "Necessary"
    +5 indicates 5 additional devices serving as backup.

    Herakles Data provides custom quotes. We don't have anything there but if I ever needed a second facility they would be it (besides the fact we're partial to supporting Sacramento businesses).
    Adam

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    55
    I assume there's a reason why you're unable to use a dedicated server for this? I've definitely seen offers close to what you're looking for that include a server.

  14. #14
    I've just read up on the whole 95th percentile thing. To make absoultely clear.

    If I colocated for $50 and 512kbs/95th percentile, its $50 for the space and the bandwidth is separate? 512kbs is ~ 150gb correct? Or am i alotted 150gb? I'm a little confused, but this has definitely been a learning curve.

    I do not want a dedicated server because I'd like to use my own hardware.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco/Hot Springs
    Posts
    988
    Originally posted by ikeo
    I've just read up on the whole 95th percentile thing. To make absoultely clear.

    If I colocated for $50 and 512kbs/95th percentile, its $50 for the space and the bandwidth is separate? 512kbs is ~ 150gb correct? Or am i alotted 150gb? I'm a little confused, but this has definitely been a learning curve.
    If you're being billed via 95th percentile, you are not being billed by GB.
    Say you're on a 100Mbps link, and you copy 150GB at 75Mbps, it only takes you a little bit, but hey - now you're on the hook for 75Mbps... Thats definately a non-fun place to be.

    There are 2 ways to avoid that problem:
    1 - Get a Cap'ed circuit
    2 - Be billed only by GB, not Mbps or 95th percentile.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    6,797
    Originally posted by wotanworks
    If you're being billed via 95th percentile, you are not being billed by GB.
    Say you're on a 100Mbps link, and you copy 150GB at 75Mbps, it only takes you a little bit, but hey - now you're on the hook for 75Mbps... Thats definately a non-fun place to be.

    There are 2 ways to avoid that problem:
    1 - Get a Cap'ed circuit
    2 - Be billed only by GB, not Mbps or 95th percentile.

    What you said is oncorrect. If you're copying 150GB at 75mbit/sec, that would only take about 4.55 hours. With 95% percentile you will not get billed a dime for that usage, since it cuts out the highest 1.5 days of usage, so you could actually use much more than 150GB of bandwidth. Theoretically, on 1mbit/sec at 95th percentile you could use over 1900GB of bandwidth in 1mbit/sec, if it in spikes of 100mbit/sec.

    Your advice is not accurate. If your traffic needs to burst to 100mbit/sec, use it, just not for more than 5% of the time, if you don't want to pay for it. There are some people for which 95th works better and for some per GB pricing works better. There is no set rule. You will also normally see per GB pricing escalated to be roughly equivalent to mbit/sec pricing, unless the colo facility has no idea what they're doing or are simply overselling.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation
    Now Open in New Jersey! - Contact us for New Jersey colocation or dedicated servers

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    San Francisco/Hot Springs
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    Originally posted by KarlZimmer
    What you said is oncorrect. If you're copying 150GB at 75mbit/sec, that would only take about 4.55 hours. With 95% percentile you will not get billed a dime for that usage, since it cuts out the highest 1.5 days of usage
    Yes, you're right, I didn't bother to do my math, but the same theory still applies. Copying 150GB at 10Mbps is probably still more than this guy wants to pay for...

    Also, last time I looked, 95th percentile gave you 8 free hours, not 36 free hours, but I suppose it depends on how many samples you're using...
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Chicago, IL
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    Originally posted by wotanworks
    Yes, you're right, I didn't bother to do my math, but the same theory still applies. Copying 150GB at 10Mbps is probably still more than this guy wants to pay for...

    Also, last time I looked, 95th percentile gave you 8 free hours, not 36 free hours, but I suppose it depends on how many samples you're using...
    It has nothing to do with the number of samples. There are 720 hours a month. 95th takes out the top 5%, and 5% of 720 is 36 hours, 1.5 days...
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation
    Now Open in New Jersey! - Contact us for New Jersey colocation or dedicated servers

  19. #19
    I guess my original question still applies.

    Based on the 95th percentile, payment is based on the amount of bandwidth used. So the cost is in addtion to the initial colocation cost?

    I think for my needs a capped line at 100 gb/mo should do the trick rather than the 95th percentile method. Is this assumption correct? Once again, my stuff is not mission critical and will only be used for recreational/light business purposes.

    All I really need is something reliable, stable, and isn't congested beyond use.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
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    Traditionally, co-location is not even billed in "per GB." 95th% is the standard, or you can get a capped line at some speed or another. "100GB" is not a line speed.

    Bottom line: If you stray away from 95th% billing, your options are severely restricted.

  21. #21
    Okay... so i get the 95th percentile as the standard and I understand how it works.

    My question is how much would i be paying for if its 512kbs/95th percentile, like how much bandwidth usage am I alotted? I've been given lots of explanations of how it works now, but no real number. Does 512kbs/95 percentile give me ~150 gb data transfer?

    With the 95th percentile pricing I'm worried my monthly payment would spike from $50 - $200 depending on bursting. I would really just like a data transfer cap to make it simple.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    There is no set number of GB you can achieve, it all depends on your traffic patterns. You could use get as much as 1770GB or as little as 8GB. Based on normal traffic patterns you should expect to get 80-110GB. It all depends on your spikes, traffic patterns, etc.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation
    Now Open in New Jersey! - Contact us for New Jersey colocation or dedicated servers

  23. #23

    to answer ikeo

    I have a cage at Servepath/Coloserve. I've been really happy with them so far. The network has been great, nothing has caught fire, the people are helpful, and overall I like the location. The prices have been nice too.

  24. #24
    Their pricing is too expensive and I've noticed they have problems with their ip's being blocked on some spam lists.

  25. #25
    Wow, have you found better pricing in the Bay Area? hehe Where?

    I haven't had any problem with the IP blocks, except with the occasional SPEWS list - but I think that anyone that uses SPEWS is making a very poor decision anyway. Blocking an entire /16? Come on, stupid SPEWS. Especially when there isn't one single mailer in the block.
    But that's another thread entirely.

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