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  1. #1
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    Study: Warming Caused Mass Extinction?

    I saw this story on the Discovery Channel's website and thought it may be interesting since these people took a load of time into researching.


    Jan. 21, 2005 — Global warming, not an asteroid impact, was to blame for the mass extinction of species 250 million years ago, an international team of researchers reports in the latest issue of Science magazine.

    Paleontologists concluded that the disappearance of 90 percent of all marine species and 75 percent of land plants and animals at the boundary between the Permian and Triasic periods was caused by atmospheric warming from of greenhouse gases triggered by erupting volcanoes.
    http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20050117/warming.html
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  2. #2
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    The researchers were able to use chemical, biological and magnetic evidence to establish that the mass extinction took place gradually over a period of 10 million years, followed by a sharp increase in the extinction rate that lasted another five million years.
    That is a very interesting article, looks like it may have been a gradual event, I still think it was an asteroid though.

  3. #3
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    yeah, but its also possible the world has a massive eruption from the volcanos as well. I mean imagine if there were hundreds if not thousands of volcanos and most of them erupted at one time. It would put alot of smoke and ash into the air, which would lower the air. If you put in heat along with this event it makes it hard to breathe. I'm not even sure how some animals were able to survive if it was a massive global warming. I find it very interesting.
    Kerry Jones

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    I don't agree with the gradual global warming theory, as in "history" terms.. the extinction happend extremly fast. Something would of had to cause the Earth's atmosphere to heat up so fast and for a long period of time, to raise all the oceans temperature and sustain the high temperatures for atleast 10 years. Anything less than that, the oceans would once again get lower temperatures.

    Most people believe several large impacts a few thousand years a part started the chain reaction. The first one hit, which caused a lot of debris, dirt, lose matter to be injected into the atmosphere which blocked out the sun for a few hundered years. Then another one hit some where in Asia which only caused more problems.

    Also seems a lot of scientists now think that large debri from a very large comet help to start the mass extinction, and not necessairly a large asteriod. It would also make sense, since the two impacts are in perfect timing with a very large comet that was in the inner solar system at the time.
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    They can't prove nefink until they can travel back in time

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    I've heard many theories about this including the one you mentioned. Another interesting theory I heard was that an asteroid struck the earth and it caused global warming.

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    I think we need to start planning for the future, instead of trying to figure out what killed off the dinosaurs. The fact is, global warming is here. Earth is changing.

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    Originally posted by RMF
    I think we need to start planning for the future, instead of trying to figure out what killed off the dinosaurs. The fact is, global warming is here. Earth is changing.
    "Earth is changing"? You say that like it's a bad thing. Or a think that we're to blame for... Earth is a dynamic environment that is in constant flux.

    To be honest all the big stink over global warming is a bit of an overstatement. Much of it is based on very flawed climate models, or "theories" that are no better than a random guess. A lot of "conclusions" -- such as carbon monoxied increases causing polar melting or the ocean levels to rise -- have no factual evidience behind them or are blatantly untrue.
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    I think the dinosaurs were being naughty and farted too much. Apparently methane gas traps 42x more heat can carbon dioxide.

  10. #10
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    Its very smart to learn about what happend, so it doesn't happen again... eventhough it will. The Earth has warmed up and nearly killed all life several times now. We are just in the wrong spot at the wrong time...
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    Arrow

    Originally posted by amusive.com
    "Earth is changing"? You say that like it's a bad thing. Or a think that we're to blame for... Earth is a dynamic environment that is in constant flux.

    To be honest all the big stink over global warming is a bit of an overstatement. Much of it is based on very flawed climate models, or "theories" that are no better than a random guess. A lot of "conclusions" -- such as carbon monoxied increases causing polar melting or the ocean levels to rise -- have no factual evidience behind them or are blatantly untrue.
    Global warming is a fact, and a transition we are going through. Like it or not, WE are the cause of it.

    Peace,
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by azizny
    Global warming is a fact, and a transition we are going through. Like it or not, WE are the cause of it.

    Peace,
    Is it now? Can you point to case proof that states that the average mean temperature of the earth is increasing caused by humans?

    Note that I do not want an opinion, I want evidence and facts. Note if you find this information you should publish it as it has clearly evaded the scientific community for years, since the theory of global warming was originally discussed.

    Even if the teperature of the earth were increasing it'd be near impossible to prove humans are responsable, even IF we are.

    Please do not post if you're just going to quote your local newspaper.
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    *

    Originally posted by amusive.com

    Even if the teperature of the earth were increasing it'd be near impossible to prove humans are responsable, even IF we are.
    That just proved you "faulty" idealogy..

    Yeah, there is no global warming.... Even if it is, its no us... Even if its us, so what!

    What you just said is a total cause, If you do not know that Global warming is happening, you are just diregarding a scientific fact which is known all over the world (try searching google, it will help you)..

    We might not be the only ones causing it, but we are the number 1 at doing so.

    Someone has to change, us or nature, and im telling you when nature changes its gonna be really bad....

    Peace,
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    I'm not going to argue with someone who clearly does not know the definition of the word 'fact' or what it means to 'prove' something. Or that thinks that because you find something on the internet it has to be true.
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    Thumbs down

    Originally posted by amusive.com
    I'm not going to argue with someone who clearly does not know the definition of the word 'fact' or what it means to 'prove' something. Or that thinks that because you find something on the internet it has to be true.


    guess you are just a little bit lazy to search.... let me help ya out:

    http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwa...ent/index.html

    According to the National Academy of Sciences, the Earth's surface temperature has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the past century, with accelerated warming during the past two decades. There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities. Human activities have altered the chemical composition of the atmosphere through the buildup of greenhouse gases – primarily carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide. The heat-trapping property of these gases is undisputed although uncertainties exist about exactly how earth’s climate responds to them. Go to the Emissions section for much more on greenhouse gases.
    All extracted from the link above... I actually saw other information I didnt know.. it does pay NOT to be lazy.....

    Peace,
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  16. #16
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    Thank you for quoting something that proves you wrong.

    There is evidence, not proof, that these greenhouse gasses are causing increases in temperature.

    EVIDENCE.

    We do not know if this is part of a global cycle, or if we are causing it. We never will. Anyone who says we do is grossly underestimating the complexity of earth's climate.

    Should we cut down on greenhouse emissions? Of course. I'm not going to argue that we shouldn't, even if it's not causing warming it'd be a smart thing to do. But the simple fact is we don't know what affect they're having, if any.

    Also, just so you know, the simple fact that Earth's average temperature is increasing is NOT indicitive of global warming. Global warming is the theory that human activities are causing it.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  17. #17
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    I'll tell you why they will never admit to global warming. The reason behind why they won't admit that greenhouse gases are causing global warming is simply due to the economy and the backlash of having in compliance to take drastic steps to cut down on emissions and the result of higher prices on cars, buses, etc.

    How did I come up with this conclusion?

    I figured out when my letter to a senator got back to me that the economy is more important than the enviroment.
    Kerry Jones

  18. #18
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    Global warming is a fact, and a transition we are going through. Like it or not, WE are the cause of it.
    I am not necessairly sure if we are causing it, but its definitely happening. Its just a natural progression. The same thing could of easily happend in the "Dinosaur era", and i'm sure it did. The best way to find out what will happen in the future, is to find out what happend in the past. Most things come in cycles.. especially on this planet.
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  19. #19
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    Theories come and theories go.

    The Cooling World

    Looks like the popular theory 25-30 years ago was global cooling.

    Currently, global warming is the popular theory.

    In a few more years we'll be back to discussing the dangers of global cooling.

    The good and the bad: Global Cooling Kills Thousands


    Stop the madness now!!!!!!




    By the way, there is a study which should be coming out, hopefully soon, proving how flawed the research was that went into producing the studies that started this whole global warming myth.

  20. #20
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    if that is true, we are facing a serious problem. Then again we're already in the middle of a global warmin process. Within the year 2010 the temp on this planet will increase by 1-2 degrees. For example, the ice on greenland will be gone in less than 20 years if the global warming continues on the current path.

    I don't even want to imagine what life will be like in 100 years from now.
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  21. #21
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    It said evidence of 1 degree per century, so its not goin' to be 2010 before the temp increases 1-2 degrees.
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    I've read scientific articles saying that global warming is entirely political, and has no actual scientific bearing other than theories, and conjectures.

    I've also read scientific articles saying that global warming is a very iminent threat to humanity.

    See what happens when we listen to science? Like adorno posted, 30 years ago, it was global cooling.

    All science is, is humans trying to figure out God's creation by trial & error.

    The massive extinction way back when wasn't caused by an asteroid, or global warming... but a global flood and change in the atmospheric oxygen levels. If an animal dies, it rots and decomposes within weeks. In order for somethign to be fossilized, it needs to be preserved and pressurized. When the floods came, and all the sediments were stirred up, and surrounded the animals, it created a perfect place for them to be fossilized.

    Also, before the flood, there was a water canopy, and the oxygen levels of the atmosphere were a lot higher, leading to longer life for all creatures. Afterwards, lower oxygen levels, so life spans were shortened. The overall temperature dropped due to the loss of the insulating water canopy. All the extra water on the planet, along with the cooler temperatures created the glaciers as the flood waters froze.

  23. #23
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    Arrow

    Originally posted by amusive.com
    Thank you for quoting something that proves you wrong.

    There is evidence, not proof, that these greenhouse gasses are causing increases in temperature.

    EVIDENCE.

    No really.... wow..... What else does prove something.... What proved that someone killed someone? What proved a person stealing? Isn't it nothing but evidence.

    When you have evidence, then thats a fact, the most evidence the stronger the fact is..

    Originally posted by amusive.com
    We do not know if this is part of a global cycle, or if we are causing it. We never will. Anyone who says we do is grossly underestimating the complexity of earth's climate.

    Should we cut down on greenhouse emissions? Of course. I'm not going to argue that we shouldn't, even if it's not causing warming it'd be a smart thing to do. But the simple fact is we don't know what affect they're having, if any.

    Also, just so you know, the simple fact that Earth's average temperature is increasing is NOT indicitive of global warming. Global warming is the theory that human activities are causing it.
    Thanks!

    Originally posted by RealtorHost
    I am not necessairly sure if we are causing it, but its definitely happening. Its just a natural progression. The same thing could of easily happend in the "Dinosaur era", and i'm sure it did. The best way to find out what will happen in thae future, is to find out what happend in the past. Most things come in cycles.. especially on this planet.
    Ofcourse we are... look all around you.. Sometimes when I drive around the city I see GRAY (almost dark to be black) coulds. I am sure thats not natural, is it?

    Humans are causing polution and thats a fact no one can just ignore... Cars, Trucks, Factories, ect..

    I am not saying we should stop them, but help make them cleaner.. Leave more forests to reuse the bad air... Many things we can do of which we simply aren't...

    Originally posted by adorno
    Theories come and theories go.

    The Cooling World
    Looks like the popular theory 25-30 years ago was global cooling.
    Currently, global warming is the popular theory.
    In a few more years we'll be back to discussing the dangers of global cooling.
    The good and the bad: Global Cooling Kills Thousands
    Stop the madness now!!!!!!
    By the way, there is a study which should be coming out, hopefully soon, proving how flawed the research was that went into producing the studies that started this whole global warming myth.
    <?php $theory != $Fact; ?>


    Originally posted by Philipf
    It said evidence of 1 degree per century, so its not goin' to be 2010 before the temp increases 1-2 degrees.
    True..... Maybe not us, but maybe our Great grand children.... is it still ok?

    Originally posted by amish_geek
    I've read scientific articles saying that global warming is entirely political, and has no actual scientific bearing other than theories, and conjectures.

    I've also read scientific articles saying that global warming is a very iminent threat to humanity.

    See what happens when we listen to science? Like adorno posted, 30 years ago, it was global cooling.

    All science is, is humans trying to figure out God's creation by trial & error.

    The massive extinction way back when wasn't caused by an asteroid, or global warming... but a global flood and change in the atmospheric oxygen levels. If an animal dies, it rots and decomposes within weeks. In order for somethign to be fossilized, it needs to be preserved and pressurized. When the floods came, and all the sediments were stirred up, and surrounded the animals, it created a perfect place for them to be fossilized.

    Also, before the flood, there was a water canopy, and the oxygen levels of the atmosphere were a lot higher, leading to longer life for all creatures. Afterwards, lower oxygen levels, so life spans were shortened. The overall temperature dropped due to the loss of the insulating water canopy. All the extra water on the planet, along with the cooler temperatures created the glaciers as the flood waters froze.
    Hmm.... God..... Now how do you suppose Judgment day will happen if there is no global warming to excite it!

    Peace,
    Last edited by Barti1987; 01-28-2005 at 06:51 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by azizny
    No really.... wow..... What else does prove something.... What proved that someone killed someone? What proved a person stealing? Isn't it nothing but evidence.

    When you have evidence, then thats a fact, the most evidence the stronger the fact is..
    You do not know what evidence is. Evidence is an indicator something MIGHT be true, not that it IS true.


    Ofcourse we are... look all around you.. Sometimes when I drive around the city I see GRAY (almost dark to be black) coulds. I am sure thats not natural, is it?
    What does this have to do with global warming? Gray clouds? The color of the cloud typically is just indicitive of how much water content is in it. Before humans existed there were gray, even near-black clouds.
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by amusive.com
    You do not know what evidence is. Evidence is an indicator something MIGHT be true, not that it IS true.
    Direct evidence IS proof that something is true!

    Circumstantial evidence MIGHT indicate that something is true.

    There is neither DIRECT evidence nor CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence to give credence to the theory that global warming is being caused by humans. If there is any cause for global warming, it is all the hot air being generated by the chatter about global warming.


    Gobal warming is a VERY FAULTY theory based on very faulty data to try to make people worry about global warming. The global warming theory is JUNK science.

    It is like a police officer thinking up theories about who commited a crime and how the crime was committed when the direct evidence is not available. Concocting a theory and then trying to sell the theory constitutes a bunch of lies.

    You can use a theory about who or how a crime was commited to try to trap a suspect into confessing or catching him/her in a lie.

    But, with a global warming theory, you can't trap a liar, except those that concocted the theory in the first place.

    The world may cool down or warm up, but, in order to understand the causes requires understanding many millions of natural variables and the interaction of all of those variables. And, not just current variables but the same variables and many others in the history of the natural world. That would make any theory devised by man very impossible to believe. No theory and no computer devised up to now can truly begin to explain how warming or cooling happens.

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    oooo mr adorno since you seem to have all the answers why do they want us to worry about global warming?

    Lets also not rule out cause and effect.
    Kerry Jones

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    Why do they want us to worry about global warming? A lot of reasons. Many people are convinced it is happening, even scientists who should know better. Some people want to make a profit off of it -- either by selling products or services (environmental cleanup, etc), or even those that research (you won't get a grant again if you say there's nothing to study, or that your studies are pointless).
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

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    Its really absurb as the result of proving global warming exists would amount to more enviromental laws costing them money. If you think about it and you were a multi million dollar coal plant and they prove global warming exists it would cost your plant alot of money become compliant. Therefore your going to try your hardest to make sure people think global warming doesn't exist.
    Kerry Jones

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    That's really what you base your belief in global warming upon? Wow.
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    No, my beliefs of global warming go much further than this. I'm just not good at explaining all of it. Now, if it was in person then you would be able to comprend on why I believe global warming exists.
    Kerry Jones

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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    No, my beliefs of global warming go much further than this. I'm just not good at explaining all of it. Now, if it was in person then you would be able to comprend on why I believe global warming exists.
    Excuses, excuses.

    You don't have a good argument to explain global warming because there is no real reason, no real research, to explain global warming. Even the people who talk up global warming, politicians, so-called environmentalists, and some researchers, can't give you the exact science for global warming. There is no real science behind global warming. It is mostly junk science.

    One of the reasons that global warming still exists as a topic of conversation is politics. A long time ago some politicians realized the worth of embracing a voting block that believed in, first, global cooling, and then, global warming. The voters numbered in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. Embracing global waming by the democrats is not much more than a political attempt to woo those voters to their party and to get their votes. Why do you think it is that it is mostly the democratic party that uses global warming in their political debates? It is the democrats who will demonize anybody, including republican politicians, who don't support their views on global warming. But, the reality is that the democratic politicians don't have a better understanding about global warming than republicans. There is no sincerity about their belief in global warming. They just sincerely want the environmental voting block, period. What the democrats understand is that the believers of global warming are a voting block that they don't want to lose. Even if they have to continue lying about global warming.


    Reading and studying up on the subject, with an open mind, should convince most logically thinking people that global warming is mostly a political farce, an environmentalist myth, and a great way for university researcheerss to get funding and grants.

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    There is no real or exact science proving how the earth got here is there? And yet the earth is in fact here.
    Global warming is in fact here, even though we don't have exact science to explain it.

    No one expects you to believe it Adorno. We know you are incapable of believing something until George Bush says it's true on national TV.

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    ok adorno, let me ask you this. how many times have we been proven wrong on things we once did this and that? Its only a matter of time before they realize what is taking effect, but it will be too late.

    cause and effect adorno

    do you honestly expect to emit gases without having some type of effect on the enviroment? If so, thats the type of arrogance politicans currently have going.
    Kerry Jones

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    Originally posted by blue27
    There is no real or exact science proving how the earth got here is there? And yet the earth is in fact here.
    Extraneous rhetoric which, while it is true that we don't know how the earth got here, serves absolutely no purpose in any kind of intelligent discussion.


    Global warming is in fact here,
    What we do know for a fact is that junk science in the form of a global warming myth is indeed here.

    even though we don't have exact science to explain it.
    We don't have the exact science but we do have the inexact science, in other words, junk science, trying to sell us on the global warming myth.

    No one expects you to believe it Adorno.
    Nope, I don't believe in junk science or myths.

    We know you are incapable of believing something until George Bush says it's true on national TV.
    Global warming was based on junk science before George Bush came into office and I didn't believe it before George Bush either.

    There was a time that even I wondered if there was any truth to global warming. But, when you read and investigate further, you become convinced that the studies were nothing more than junk science and political agendas.

    Earlier in this thread I mentioned that there would be articles coming out soon debunking the research that went into producing the global warming theory.

    Here's an example of statements that you will read in those articles (and this are real quotes):

    "Professor Richard Muller of the University of California at Berkeley examined our work last fall. In an essay published in the MIT Technology Review, he said the findings “hit me like a bombshell, and I suspect it is having the same effect on many others. Suddenly the hockey stick, the poster-child of the global warming community, turns out to be an artifact of poor mathematics.”

    "Our GRL article showed that the original study erred in only applying one statistical test for significance. If a second standard test had been also applied, it would have shown that the results lack statistical significance and that the other significance test was calculated incorrectly. Because the results lack statistical significance, contrary to previous understanding, the Mann et al. reconstruction is not usable for claims comparing 20th century climate to earlier periods.



    If you have no idead what the hockey stick graph is about, look here: You can get a hockey stick shape from random data.



    Research is your best friend, personal agendas just make you blind to the truth!

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by adorno
    Research is your best friend, personal agendas just make you blind to the truth!

    Which is exactly why your posts seldom carry any weight. You are so blinded by hate for the liberals and misdirected devotion to the Right, regardless of who may be representing the Right, that your opinions are far to biased to be trusted.

    You seem to think that your opinions are based on fact and "research" but I can find 1000 web links to back both sides of almost any story. You choose to only search for ones that back up your side.

  36. #36
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    ok adorno, let me ask you this. how many times have we been proven wrong on things we once did this and that?
    Your are absolutely right and the global warming myth is being debunked all the time but, because of political agendas people will still refuse to believe that it was based on junk science.

    Its only a matter of time before they realize what is taking effect, but it will be too late.
    There is no basis for that statement. The global warming theory (myth is more correct), was based on flawed observations and flawed research and flawed statistics and flawed data.


    cause and effect adorno
    Yep! The CAUSE for the global waming myth was flawed research and observations and political agendas. The EFFECT is that the global warming myth is costing many billions of dollars around the world and a lot of wasted resources and time.

    do you honestly expect to emit gases without having some type of effect on the enviroment?
    Yep, everytime a person or a cow or any other animal farts, gases are being emitted into the atmosphere which is having a far larger effect on the atmosphere than what the global warming theory says is the cause.

    If so, thats the type of arrogance politicans currently have going.
    Yep, there is a huge amount of arrogance from politicans who, even in the face of research that proves global warming to be a myth, continue to scare people into believing the theory (myth).


    I have a suggestion: instead of repeating what is heard in the news, do some research on your own and examine critically, without politics in mind, what the truth is.

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    Originally posted by blue27
    Which is exactly why your posts seldom carry any weight. You are so blinded by hate for the liberals and misdirected devotion to the Right, regardless of who may be representing the Right, that your opinions are far to biased to be trusted.

    You seem to think that your opinions are based on fact and "research" but I can find 1000 web links to back both sides of almost any story. You choose to only search for ones that back up your side.
    The researchers which I mentioned did look at the original research which produced the global warming myth. Read and study up on what they have to sayl. Nobody is disregarding the original research for global warming. But, it turns out that the original was really, really flawed.

    but, I know how it is: it's so hard to let go of a theory which so many people believed in.


    But then,...


    You are attacking my politics instead of addressing the truth. Did you bother to read any of the material I posted?

    The truth should be independent of what your politics are.

    I'll say it again: do some real research on the subject and don't be blinded by your politics.

    Science and research should not be politically based. When politics and personal opinions enter into the science/research arena, the science is blurred and harder to understand and appreciate because of the political agendas.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,194
    In one of my previous posts I wrote the following without including the URL (link). Here goes again:

    If you have no idead what the hockey stick graph is about, look here: You can get a hockey stick shape from random data.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,084
    Originally posted by blue27
    There is no real or exact science proving how the earth got here is there? And yet the earth is in fact here.
    Global warming is in fact here, even though we don't have exact science to explain it.
    Err, not quite a valid comparison.

    "Do we know if the Earth is here?" Yes. We live upon it.

    "Do we know global warming is happening?" No.

    What is global warming?

    gradual increase of the temperature of the earth's lower atmosphere as a result of the increase in greenhouse gases
    See, we don't know what's causing the minor increase in temperature around the Earth. It's very possible it's a natural cycle (in fact, it's very likely at least some part of the increase is).

    Not only that, any estimation of the future isn't very good. There were estimations of large increases by the year 2000 that never happened. The original model, world3, which predicted the future state of the world and what we need to do to fix everything said the world would be in an irreversable state by now; yet they claim this isn't true anymore. Their best estimate from this model was off by over 300%.

    These are some of the "facts" that global warming is happening.

    If you don't believe that, grab a copy of vensim and the model, run and look at it yourself.

    Science is not based on feelings or what "seems" like it should happen. Science is based on facts. Even those of you that have strong beliefs about global warming read in-depth the next article you see. There aren't facts. There are proclamations. This should anger you too -- if there is proof out there that states global warming is happening, why aren't they discussing that. The best I've ever seen in a news report is crap about how a computer model shows this, or shows that. As previously mentioned, computer models are intrinsically simplistic and through that flawed.

    For example, this is the most recent CNN article:

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science...te.temps.reut/

    Computer models based on assumptions. Assumptions that estimate CO2 levels at double that they were before the industrial revolution. Seeing as the increase before regulation was less than 10%... how the hell is it going to double so quickly?

    It's not, but saying that the Earth's climate is suddenly going to go up makes a great news story.

    I'm not going to buy the computer model estimates. Before I graduated I took a course on global atmospheric modeling. I built the world3 model, I read their book, and I ran through tests to see how the model could change to "save" our world. They come to the estimation the world is in trouble; I come to the conclusion that the world of climatological modeling is troubled.

    We can't model the atmosphere 4 days into the future with any accuracy, don't tell me we can do it for 20 years in the future.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    2,585
    azizny
    I said I was not certain if "humans" are causing global warming, not polution as in your assumption. Big differnce there...


    also...

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science....ap/index.html
    www.JGRoboMarketing.com / We Filter out the Bad Leads and Send you the Good ones!
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