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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Moscow
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    170

    How to get out from SPEWS.ORG?!

    One of my customers spammed, i banned his account and said good-bye to him, but nevertheless my mail server got listed in SPEWS.ORG and several mail services now do not relay mail from my servers. What to do? How to get out from SPEWS? We do not host spammers and always kick ass them.

    SPEWS.ORG cannot be contacted via e-mail, IMHO, at least they do not answer it.
    Best Regards,
    Anatole

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Ashburn, VA
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    The only way to get unlisted from the spam blackilists, is close your mail relay. If you are one of the few who feel the need to offer SMTP services, then you need to at least lock it down to use authentication. The blacklists absolutely will not remove your server if it has an open relay. They will try and send a test message relayed off your server, if it goes through, you are in trouble.

    -Dan
    Affordable web hosting, design, & domain registration services since 2001
    www.serve-you.net

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Moscow
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    You are kidding, serve-you, aren't you? We are 4 years in webhosting and use pop-before-smtp authrisation process.
    Or do you really think I am keeping opened relay?!

    Relay is closed, but a user has spammed (long ago), i closed his account. But SPEWS.ORG is still keeping my mail server in the blacklist. And i do not know how to remove it from the list.

    The only way is to change IP and name of mailserver, but in this case all the users (thousands) must make changes in their e-mail software settings - which is bad
    Best Regards,
    Anatole

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Ashburn, VA
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    1,206
    This was not an attack against you, you would be surprised how many established companies blindly use open relays. The pop before smtp method is unfortunately not that much better, because all a spammer has to do is signup for service and create a mail account, which you are no aware of.

    What does the "Lookup Record" on spews tell you when you lookup your IP? Usually they give some sort of explanation as to what you need to do to get unlisted.

    spews does not accept mail, which would be why they aren't replying to you. If you look in their FAQ, they tell you some forums where you can go to discuss the matter.
    Q41: How does one contact SPEWS? A41: One does not. SPEWS does not receive email - it's just an automated system and website, SPEWS and other blocklist issues can be discussed in the public forums mentioned above. The newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.email (NANAE) is a good choice, and Google makes it quite easy to post messages there via the Web as M@ilGate does via email. Be aware that posting ones email address to any publicly viewable forum or website makes it instantly available to spammers. If you're concerned about getting spammed, change or "mung" the email address you use to post with.
    -Dan
    Affordable web hosting, design, & domain registration services since 2001
    www.serve-you.net

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Alabama of course
    Posts
    1,538
    <rant>
    Spews is a useless orginization that blindly adds companies left and right for inadequate and unverified reasons with no way what-so-ever to explain the situation and get yourself removed. I wouldn't even bother with spews, I've been listed in it before and after attempting to deal with them many times I finally gave up, the people that actually use spews for their mail servers are fairly small, so I consider it their loss if they list me and do not allow mail to be relayed into my network. So in short, your **** outta luck like the rest of us have been, they even blocked us for a port 1080 mis-conception because all their software did was see if that port was open, they didn't think to check if there was port sentry running on the other side waiting for some idiot to try and use it, o no, they just added IP's left and right.

    Needless to say spews = bad uncaring radical ********


    </end rant>
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  6. #6

    *

    As many hosts here, I do not run a company that is friendly with spammers. However like many of you know, spamming accounts always pop up. These accounts usually do plenty of damange before you are able to terminate them.

    SPEWS as far as I am concerned is a feeble attempt to get fame. You will notice MSN, YAHOO, Excite, and other bigger ISP's are NOT on the SPEWS banned list. (And who hasnt gotton spam e-mail from MSN today?)

    If any other hosts feel the same way as I do about this "service", I would be interested in getting togather.

    I love to fight SPAM as much as anyone else, but SPEWS is not the answer. I have tried to get off the SPEWS list relentlessly, and am just tired of it.

    Feel free to flame me on this subject, or agree with me, but please make it constructive.

    Zach

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    3,407
    SPEWS is nothing more then an above the law group of punks and sh**bags! They are arrogant pricks in my opinion. And until you get your IPs blocked because your upstream had them blocked because they had a spammer years ago, you will not understand. There responses are "Sorry you colo with ______. Sue them for breach of contract or move".

    We are huge Spam haters. Accounts are instantly nuked. However I can not control what our upstream does, and would appreciate support from a group that is suppose to be here to help.

    Anyway, try sending a message to the news groups. This is the best place where the cowards with no e-mail hang out -

    news.admin.net-abuse.email

    While I appreciate their effort as well as Spamcops, however, I feel these groups really need to lose the attitude and work with people better. They have the attitude, guilty until proven innocent.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
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    He-he, glad to hear I am not alone disloving that SPEWS.ORG. However, www.mail.ru - russian largest free mail service (about 5M accounts as far as I remember) uses that sucking SPEWS, and therefor my customers complain when they cannot send a mail to mail.ru.


    That's my answer > SPEWS.ORG
    Best Regards,
    Anatole

  9. #9
    Originally posted by Anatole
    He-he, glad to hear I am not alone disloving that SPEWS.ORG. However, www.mail.ru - russian largest free mail service (about 5M accounts as far as I remember) uses that sucking SPEWS, and therefor my customers complain when they cannot send a mail to mail.ru.


    That's my answer > SPEWS.ORG
    HEH... mail.ru should be on spews list... I get so much spam from mail.ru I ended up putting a filter to block mail from them!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
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    I wish I could put filter on all that mail.ru, yahoo.com, hotmail.com and any other freemail service, cause what they generate is 90% spam.
    Best Regards,
    Anatole

  11. #11
    Anyone with any law exp? What would it take to get rid of spews?


    At least they are slanderous? Claiming blocked IPs are spammers which they are not?

    Zach

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Moscow
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    Why should they care 'bout your laws? Laws are in life, SPEWS are located in virtual reality...

    If all ISP and hosting services will ignor SPEWS, then they simply dissapear, but its impossible.
    Best Regards,
    Anatole

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    5,403
    Here's my solution.

    I have a dedicated server that is NOT in SPEWS or other lists.

    When I have a problem with one server and SPEWS, I simply set that server to use my non-SPEWS server as it's smart relay for a while.

    If for some reason that server gets on spews I can it and get antoher dedicated machine elsewhere.

    You are right, MSN.com, hotmail, and other MASSIVE spam machines will NEVER be on spews, why? Because they know better than to **** with the big dogs.

    What do you think Yahoo would do if SPEWS blacklisted them? They'd sue the UPSTREAM's upstream backbone. They'd go all the way to the top and they'd have spews off of the net so fast it'd make your head spin. Same with MSN or other big leaguers.

    But what can you or I do? Rant and rave and cuss and spit and that's about it.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    695
    Please don't shoot me on this one!

    No matter your opinion of Spews, they do server a good purpose. Unfortunately, we've been caught up in a few IP blocks where they tagged a few of our sub nets.

    In each instance, when we took corrective action they removed our blocks. If you correspond with the group in a cordial manner and take the necessary steps, your can expact your IPs to be removed quickly.

    On the other hand, if you threaten this and that or say your gonna sue them, my guess is that you won't get far.

    From a end user perspective, I'm glad that there are lists like Spews out there that ISPs can use to block SPAM. When EV1 implemented a beta SPAM filtering system for our dialup users, my email volume went down by 70%!

    If you concentrate on killing the spammers, you're problems with Spews will shortly go away.

    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer Rackshack.net

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    3,407
    No matter your opinion of Spews, they do server a good purpose. Unfortunately, we've been caught up in a few IP blocks where they tagged a few of our sub nets.
    Yeah, you are the top end and can control your sub nets. For most here, we collocate and rely on our colo or upstream. It is here that SPEWS is BS. We are given Class Cs. We use them. A year latter we find out it was blocked because an old user of it had a Spammer. We contacted them and received arrogant replies, mostly from what I thought were 12 year old punks.

    Changing the Class Cs that can host a few thousand sites isn't a very good option, neither is moving colos. To me they should just realize that even if the Colo isn't an active participant with them, that at least they shouldn't pass down there agenda to the bottom tiers. They should just release the block.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
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    San Diego
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    No matter your opinion of Spews, they do server a good purpose.
    PS - Brown noser.

  17. #17
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    Aug 2001
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    OK, so I do what it takes.

    Choice one: Be an a** and suffer the consequences.

    Choice two: Understand whose ball game it is, who makes the rules, and live with those rules.

    Which one would you choose in this instance?

    Which one do you think best serves the Rackshack customers?

    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer Rackshack.net

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Alabama of course
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    Robert,

    While it may be somewhat possible to deal with spews I've found it near impossible, we did try the nice approach with their news group but to no avail, it was met with rude and slanderous remarks and no response from anyone who ran spews. While I agree on the most part that RBL lists are a good thing, an automatic list is not, its VERY irresponsible, I would have no problem with spews IF they had a responsible method of challenging listings in their blocking list that would be reviewed in an appropriate and timely manner , rather than taking months to get off, even when we did fix the port 1080 issue on our servers with port sentry it took almost two months for their *automated* system to wake up and remove it.

    Also, I find your comment below:

    Choice two: Understand whose ball game it is, who makes the rules, and live with those rules.
    An extremely ignorant comment, your saying that ignorant organizations such as spews actually make the rules that are extremely unfair and cause people to suffer?

    On a grand scale rackshack and EV1 is much larger than most other of the companies here, so your in a much better position to stand up and say no to things like this, it is the loss of those whom use Spews , not the ones who do not use it and choose to use a more sensible alternative. I'm surprised you take such a "lay down and die" stance over something like this.

    I am in no way against responsible RBL lists or others like spews, but I just feel spews is utterly irresponsible, and anyone who uses them needs to pull their head out of you know where and wake up to the real world.


    Note, I apologize if I offend anyone with the above message but I am the type to speak my mind and I mean no disrespect, however, I feel very strongly about this issue.
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NY State
    Posts
    27

    re: spews

    We have tried in earnest to get removed from the spews.org list - following the spews FAQ but all we have gotten in return is hate mail from anti-spam zealots. Oddly enough we found that Prodigy for a time was using a filtering system that in turn used SPEWS. As such, our users could not send email to prodigy users. We sent a letter to the General Counsel at Prodigy indicating the problem with SPEWS and how lacking in integrity the service is - that is that they do not remove users in a timely manner. Guess what, while I did not get a reply from Prodigy I found that we could send email to Prodigy users - so it would appear that Prodigy has stopped using filtering based on SPEWS.

    The way to stop SPEWS is to get them in the news - showering the media with the real facts about how SPEWS is not objective, how they hide behind fake email addresses, how the DNS is forged, etc.

  20. #20
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    Choice one: Be an a** and suffer the consequences.
    Hopefully you are not *assuming* that people here that try, but do not get off SPEWS are being asses.

    Choice two: Understand whose ball game it is, who makes the rules, and live with those rules.
    So I guess if you lived in Afghanistan last year, you would wearing a black turban? (no offense - just making an analogy). Because someone makes their own rules, it certainly doesn't make them right. I am glad you are pro-active with your company. I wouldn't have an issue with SPEWS (nor had even heard of them) if my upstream were pro-active too.

    As I stated before, it isn't the upper tiers effected. It is the middle and lower. The ones who can not control their sub nets and rely on the upstream that are hosed. These are usually the small to mid guys that don't have the money, power, etc.. to persuade SPEWS to remove them.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
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    So nobody answered my thread: how to get out of that s*** SPEWS.ORG.

    OK - i will change IP and name of my mail server....


    SPEWS.ORG
    Best Regards,
    Anatole

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Alabama of course
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    Anatole, the only way to even halfway attempt to get removed from spews is to post to their news group, which then you'll get emailed and harassed by a bunch of antispam vigilanties and you maybe have a 15% chance of getting removed. other than that, change the IP of your mail server :-/
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  23. #23
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    Aug 2001
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    Spews does not make the rules for everyone on the Internet. They simply operate a list that others have the option of using or not using. In our case, the real power with Spews is that AOL uses their list to block from. If you want your customers to be able to send email to AOL, then they do make the rules.

    While we did have what we termed a serious approach to killing spammers, it is now even more viligent.

    We have zero power with Spews and live under their rules just like everyone. Many hosts take the "I'll sue you approach", and then you get to a point where whoever is Spews digs in their heels.

    Our VP (Jeff Lowenberg) took a different approach and we took the necessary actions. We are now, or at least as of this weekend, not in the Spews list.

    You can see from the website that they run that they have acknowledged the actions to take Spam seriously from a number of hosts and removed their IP blocks. (www.spews.org see "news")

    I an not trying to say that everything that Spews does I agree with. Only that they do have a right to operate a list as they see fit. ISPs, in turn, have a right to use or not to use their list.

    ALL I can recommend comes from our experience. We did not get removed overnight. In fact, after we got removed the first time, we got relisted for another sub net and had to work to get that customer handled.

    Go to the news group. Take the necessary actions, then ask nicely to be removed. NICELY being the key word.

    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer Rackshack.net

  24. #24
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    Location
    NY State
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    <quote>
    Spews does not make the rules for everyone on the Internet. They simply operate a list that others have the option of using or not using. In our case, the real power with Spews is that AOL uses their list to block from. If you want your customers to be able to send email to AOL, then they do make the rules.
    </quote>

    Robert,

    That is simply not true. AOL does not use SPEWS. We appear to be listed, *still*, with SPEWS - yet we are not being blocked by AOL at all. I just sent myself a message to AOL and replied without failure.

    I agree - that SPEWS has the right to run the list the way they see fit. However, if their FAQ says that they get removed then they need to follow through. Additionally, we as business owners are accessible to our customers - right? We do this - and take the good email with the bad. Likewise the adminstrators should do the same.

    <robb>

  25. #25
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    I've delt with AOL before on several issues including when AOL themselves blocked a subnet of my network because someone was sending spam (which had already been taken care of). AOL handles their own spam blocking, they definately do not use spews, and believe it or not, AOL was 10 times easier to deal with than Spews ever has been.
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