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  1. #51
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    So its a white lie. At least part of it is true.

  2. #52
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    Jan 2005
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    Carbondale Illinois
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    My point of my last post in this topic was that it seemed like something common sense should have brought to light.

    Don't lie, but don't tell the full truth.

    Microsoft for an example, They say Windows is a great OS, true, but they don't say that it's full of bugs even after 10+ years of business. They make people think it's the only option availible. They don't say that, but they're not telling people that Linux is perfectly acceptable too.
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  3. #53
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    exactly what axe said.

    P.S. Linux is free. lol

  4. #54
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    Originally posted by axe9
    My point of my last post in this topic was that it seemed like something common sense should have brought to light.

    Don't lie, but don't tell the full truth.

    Microsoft for an example, They say Windows is a great OS, true, but they don't say that it's full of bugs even after 10+ years of business. They make people think it's the only option availible. They don't say that, but they're not telling people that Linux is perfectly acceptable too.
    it's hard to get every piece of hardware and software to work under Windows and without any bugs.

    for example...Do Mac user have to worry about drivers when Mac is based on one platform with limited hardware suppliers vs Windows have to support both x86 platform (AMD and Intel, i don't care what people said but starting with Athlon, AMD and Intel cpu are not the same anymore both still support x86 but they do it in very different way, just try to support two and more different type of cpu) with million different hardware vendors and some of them write crappy drivers to begin with and users blame Microsoft and not hardware vendors. you get my point.

    how much secure can Windows be if software vendors own bug cause the problem and software vendors won't say it's their own fault for not following Microsoft Win API or best pratice.

    basically Microsoft get blame for a lot of thing that i do not believe its their fault but you know what people use Microsoft Windows and when they see that blue screen of death and bunch binary error code puke out by Windows. they think it's windows fault and not hardware or software vendors.

    Microsoft also have the best backward competilable platform. you can run Win95 apps with WinXP and this both have its blessing and curse. Microsoft's own software also have blessing and curse like their office software. they give you power with Macro and VBA script but at the same time open itself up for easy script kiddies attack. so how do you balance between the two? a lot of time OpenSource have great software but at the expense of poor GUI (interface) or great interface but limited function (security reason).

    it's not entirely Microsoft's fault for a lot of blue screen of death but people just going to blame on Microsoft anyway. it's kinda become of norm that Microsoft's software = buggy, unreliable and unsecure but some of Microsoft's technology and software are very good but you'll never see any praise for that.

  5. #55
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    Well, If you can provide what you offer (24x 7 Support for example) I think there is no problem.

  6. #56
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    wow... ever have one of those nights where you lay in bed staring at the ceiling, trying to sleep for two hours, then give up and decide to go back to working on your website... yeah, one of those...

    Anyhow, lets not derail the topic by opening up the MAC vs Win vs Linux debate XD

    Personally, the only thing I boast about on my site is fast response times. I say I will get to any after-hours email within 9 hours. This allows for sleep of course.and I say I'll get to any email durring business horus within the hour. I say this, because my biggest pet-peeve is when you email someone, and it takes a day for them to reply..... or if they don't know, they just forget about it and let it hang... I hate people who don't check their email more then once a week... and my mom yells at me for checking my email accounts [3] at least once/hour...........rambling rambling...
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  7. #57
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    woa this topic changed its path so many times that when I looked at the topic name, underage starting web host business I though their was an error in the forum.

    I think we all answered the question about starting a business in the US while being a minor. Lets not shift to other topics. If someone wants to debate linux/windows/mac it diserves its own thread.

  8. #58
    im in the UK and i had my company running for 8 months now. Im only 15 and already own 4 of my own servers in rb2 mer. I also got a server in the US for us hosting customers. Im in the middle of switching my name so its getting a lil confusing but its all good. The main thing is to have some people online while your at school to answer any support questions. I dont think there is any elgal stuff ya need to do till you been in business for a while. If your unsure contact ur mum or dads lawyer.

  9. #59
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    Originally posted by JamieHF
    I dont think there is any elgal stuff ya need to do till you been in business for a while. If your unsure contact ur mum or dads lawyer.
    uh? am i missing something or is U.K. law is different? when you started a business and taking people's money. you already doing legal stuff...unless you're scaming your customers...otherwise as soon as you take your customers money. both you and your customers are deep in "legal" stuff of the business side.

    you're a minior so i don't know if U.K. allow minor to get sued or not but it's a legal contract/service agreement between you and your customers.

  10. #60
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    Yeah, UK laws are different. I think he means legal stuff like tax forms etc. He won't have to fill in tax coz he's only 15 and in the UK, we don't pay tax till we're 16 and out of full-time education (so if you go to college or something, you still dont pay tax).

    Also, he is probly a Sole Proprietorship, for which, there is no age limit and you can wake up in the morning and just start trading, there and then. You don't HAVE to get business names registered or anything, but they advise you to. The same as they advise you to not start a business till you're 16 coz you might not know what you're on about - but they are just advisions.

    Also, he cannot incorporate until he's 18 - same rule as the U.S there. But he'd be fine for starting a Sole Proprietorship. Except, he still can't enter into legally binding contracts, but can sign contracts by means of agreement, but they won't mean anything in court.

    Think I filled everything in there...

  11. #61
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    Sep 2003
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    Originally posted by will7
    He won't have to fill in tax coz he's only 15 and in the UK, we don't pay tax till we're 16 and out of full-time education (so if you go to college or something, you still dont pay tax).
    That seems rather odd. Can you point me to a good link to read up on that?

  12. #62
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    http://www.debatabase.org/details.asp?topicID=77

    Under the pros column, second box down, "At 16 you can get a job and pay taxes"

    That should mean that you don't pay taxes until you're 16!

  13. #63
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    Originally posted by will7

    Also, he cannot incorporate until he's 18 - same rule as the U.S there. But he'd be fine for starting a Sole Proprietorship. Except, he still can't enter into legally binding contracts, but can sign contracts by means of agreement, but they won't mean anything in court.

    Think I filled everything in there...
    so...that mean his customers can't sue him if thing go wrong? humm...isn't that kind of disadvantage to "adult" business who can get sued if service agreement is breach or something.

  14. #64
    No, it means his customers can always sue. Whether they win or not is a different story. If there is not a legally binding contact in place, it just means the customer has a better chance of winning because of there is nothing to protect the hosting company.
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  15. #65
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    It doesn't mean they can't sue him. In actual fact, they have a better chance of winning because he has no legal proof of a contract between them and they are going by word.

  16. #66
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    Originally posted by will7
    http://www.debatabase.org/details.asp?topicID=77

    Under the pros column, second box down, "At 16 you can get a job and pay taxes"

    That should mean that you don't pay taxes until you're 16!
    Flawed logic: it doesn't necessarily follow that they DON'T have pay taxes if they're under 16. I don't know my UK tax law, but I find it highly unlikely that under-16's wouldn't have to pay [income] tax if they were in fact generating income. That just illustrates why it's important to research legalities BEFORE starting a business and from an AUTHORITATIVE source.

  17. #67
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    They do not have to pay income tax if they work for someone. However there are other taxes if you run your own business. (Self-employment taxes). This is how I interpreted this. I am not sure and have no experiance with British law, however this is what I think of the issue.

  18. #68
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    Sep 2004
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    Indeed revise, believe me, I did find this information from a government site and wish I had kept the link. I'll try and get some more research for you but my mom & dad both say that you don't until you're 16, and so does my brother's friend.

    I would go and see a lawyer, but am afraid of looking like an idiot and him not taking me seriously. Maybe I should...

  19. #69
    Ok I cancelled the order because of recommendations here (I realized it was extremely stupid of me to order one)

    I am incorporating, 99,999 shares for me, 1 share for my mom :p

    I have decided to go with hostingzoom's reseller packages since they offer to support my customers and offer WHM Autopilot.

    It will be at least 6 months until all my startup tasks are done (learn basic accounting, incorporate, get business acount with bank, finish my site, create corporate id package for myself, write business plan, print all stationary)

    Thanks for all the helpful advice

    Samson

  20. #70
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    anytime, thats why we are all here. And if you have any more questions just post here, or PM me. I'll be glad to help you out.

  21. #71
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    Jan 2002
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    Scotland
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    Originally posted by will7
    Yeah, UK laws are different. I think he means legal stuff like tax forms etc. He won't have to fill in tax coz he's only 15 and in the UK, we don't pay tax till we're 16 and out of full-time education (so if you go to college or something, you still dont pay tax).

    Also, he is probly a Sole Proprietorship, for which, there is no age limit and you can wake up in the morning and just start trading, there and then. You don't HAVE to get business names registered or anything, but they advise you to. The same as they advise you to not start a business till you're 16 coz you might not know what you're on about - but they are just advisions.

    Also, he cannot incorporate until he's 18 - same rule as the U.S there. But he'd be fine for starting a Sole Proprietorship. Except, he still can't enter into legally binding contracts, but can sign contracts by means of agreement, but they won't mean anything in court.

    Think I filled everything in there...
    1) You do pay tax on earnings at ages under 16, what you don't pay is P.A.Y.E or N.I.. Don't want to declare it? - OK - Inland revenue can go back 7 years, personal and corporation tax and a few others as well including capital gains tax.

    2) A sole proprietor does not need to register a name but he/she will be "trading as" T/A which carries legal implications as well, not being incorporated means that full liability for any debts, law suits, tax and insurance issues lies personally with the proprietor and being under 16 does not limit that liability. There is other major issues involved such as banks will not offer a business account ( normally) to anyone under 18 and exceptionally between 16 and 18, signing of contracts is not legal in the UK until you are 18 ( 16 in Scotland) and parents or guardians will be ultimately responsible.

    3) You CAN be a director of a Limited company under 18 although it is discouraged it is perfectly legal 9however the points above will hold you back). Your point of contracts being legal is unfounded, if a minor enters into a contract for say hosting, the parents can be held responsible as they knew ( or should know what he was doing) he/she has to produce paperwork, has to pay bills and has to lodge funds somewhere. Legal age of responsibility is 10. Whether any case would be successful in court would be for the legal system to decide not you.

    4) Lastly and most importantly under 16/18's will not be able to obtain prefessional idemnity insurance of any kind - one mistake and you could be paying for the rest of your natural life.
    Nil illegitimi carborundum
    I'm getting old and don't do drugs. I get the same effect just standing up fast.

  22. #72
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    Sep 2004
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    OK, So I'm wrong about the tax thing then. I'm sure I found it somewhere on some government sole proprietor site, I'll have another look around.

    And you CAN sign contracts under 18, but they are not legal. They are merely an agreement, so, I spose they should be called "agreements" not "contracts".

    And I knew about all the rest. Thanks for clearing things up Goldwing.

  23. #73
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    And you CAN sign contracts under 18, but they are not legal. They are merely an agreement, so, I spose they should be called "agreements" not "contracts".
    OK pedantic point, 16 in Scotland, the legal status of the contract would be determined by the courts, never assume they cant, however overall the parents could be held responsible financially

    I am an old git now and believe me under 18's go out and enjoy yourself, hell under 25's go out and forget business your only young once.

    Just for the record I started my first business when I was 13, got nabbed by the tax man when I was 17 ( cost me a fortune) left things alone til I was 25 (1982) and been in business since

    The following is an extract from companies house FAQ, while directors can be any age all of the above restrictions would become a hinderance.


    =======================
    Is there a minimum age under which an individual is barred from acting as a company director?

    The Companies Act imposes no restriction on the minimum age of company directors. However Companies House will actively discourage the appointment of anyone under the age of 16 from taking up a company directorship on the grounds that the individuals concerned may not fully understand the legal liabilities that go with the position and for the most part will not have the experience necessary to perform the duties of a company director. There will be exceptions to this general rule and we are open to persuasion. If an applicant insists we would have to accept an underage appointment but applicants should bear in mind that such an appointment may damage the credibility of their company for people who examine its public record.
    Nil illegitimi carborundum
    I'm getting old and don't do drugs. I get the same effect just standing up fast.

  24. #74
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    May 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA.
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    First of all, who would seek legal advice in a forum? Don't. Second - You don't pay taxes until your parents report you as being independent. This is my .02.

  25. #75
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    Sep 2004
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    311
    Ah, I see. OK, I'm getting mixed opinions...think it's time I arranged an appointment with an accountant, lol.

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