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12-29-2004, 04:40 PM #1Disabled
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Inergen vs. Water in Server Room?
I work for a large company that has dedicated server rooms for all of our servers + our PBX.
At our building we have inergen as the fire retardant for our server room, but I was just talking to another Facility Manager who said she was told (by who???) that inergen causes as much damage to servers as water does, so on this advice she was putting sprinkler systems into all her server rooms in new building...
Does anyone have any experience with this? Either the water or the inergen?
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12-29-2004, 06:41 PM #2Web Hosting Master
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I'm no expert but I don't think you'd want to use water in an area where there is the potential for electrical fire.
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12-29-2004, 10:06 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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I dont agree with that, just imagine water in a server... men.. a must see situation (but not my servers)
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12-29-2004, 11:44 PM #4Disabled
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Thanks... my thoughts exactly... I can't imagine mixing water & servers!
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12-29-2004, 11:47 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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You wonder if its possible to make a server room with no oxygen..then fire cant even start..lol
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12-29-2004, 11:56 PM #6Originally posted by camers
You wonder if its possible to make a server room with no oxygen..then fire cant even start..lol
I'm sorry, but our last oxygen mask was just used, and the guy STILL hasn't come out of the server room yetTom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
Linux problems? WHMCS Problems? Give me a shout
Check out my WHMCS Addons
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12-30-2004, 12:01 AM #7Web Hosting Master
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haha.. Im sure theres a way round it. Im thinking a masisve generator that sucks it all out some how and sorts the whole ion particals out etc etc
be pretty sweet... we'll see datacenters in 10 years time haha
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12-30-2004, 01:54 AM #8Web Hosting Master
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LOL
Datacenter :"Sorry we have some problem with our MGTSIAOSH (massive generator that sucks it all out some how). It went crazy and sucked the technician that was going to reboot your server"
And in the "Datacenter" section of thousands of webhosts, you are going to see in the future: Plasma Generator Power, UPS backups, MGTSIAOSH,.
I cant stop laughing.... hahahahahahahha
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12-30-2004, 02:08 AM #9Disabled
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I'll check to see if the MGTSIAOSH is in the 2005 budget
(and the special masks that will have to be implemented to keep everyone's eyes from getting sucked out of their heads while working in there) who's gonna tell my telephony guy???
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12-30-2004, 09:11 AM #10Web Hosting Master
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heh amusing..thanks guys :p
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12-30-2004, 03:39 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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You want some sort of gas suppression system.
If you do that though, you most likely need oxygen masks placed at regular intervals on the DC floor incase some of your employees get caught when the system goes off.
Might be something to look at, anyways...
But water and electricity == badDan Sheppard ~ Freelance whatever
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12-30-2004, 06:03 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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Take a look as something that the company I work for just came out with. It is pretty cool stuff. We submerged a powered up laptop and cell phone in it and it kept working. Here are some links.
3M Novec 1230 Fire Protection Fluid.
http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-68/iclcrFR/view.jhtml
http://wcco.com/siteSearch/local_story_350105453.html
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12-30-2004, 08:52 PM #13Disabled
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Thanks for the links & info. We literally just found out Wednesday that we had server rooms being designed w/ water sprinklers... and want to make sure we put an end to that - quickly
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01-16-2005, 05:54 PM #14Junior Guru
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Did you look into Halon?
http://www.reliablefire.com/halon/halon.html
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01-16-2005, 10:03 PM #15I LOVE Cogent!
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Where some of our servers are colocated in a Time Warner building, it uses FM-200.
http://www.reliablefire.com/fm200/fm200.html
http://www.e1.greatlakes.com/fm200/jsp/index.jsp
It's not deadly to humans, but it certainly isn't good. Then again you probably shouldn't be in the datacenter when it's on fire.I wish all my traffic went through AS174.
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01-16-2005, 11:16 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by blenard
Did you look into Halon?
As for fire suppression, FM-200 seems to be a good option from what I've read about it, and it doesn't require people to go racing for oxygen masks if the system is discharged.
It's probably a good idea to consider a pre-action sprinkler as a last resort if something like FM-200 doesn't work, especially if you can setup a system to cut power to all or part of a server room in case of a fire - especially if the server room is in an office building (building code would probably require sprinklers in this case anyway).
-Shaun
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01-17-2005, 12:04 AM #17Newbie
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FM-200 is the way to go. If setup properly, FM-200 is the last resort, no need to take any actions after it goes off because it will displace all oxygen in the room. No oxygen, no fire. Keep servers as far away from water as possible...
T
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01-17-2005, 12:11 AM #18Junior Guru
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I know someone that still sells Halon sysztems. not sure..
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02-22-2010, 11:17 PM #19WHT Addict
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Searching the net I can't find any reputable report of Inergen damaging the computer equipment or data. If you find it please let me know.
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02-23-2010, 05:34 AM #20******* Unleaded
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search again,
find the vendor,
read the application notes.
westhost, right?edgedirector.com
managed dns global failover and load balance (gslb)
exactstate.com
uptime report for webhostingtalk.com
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02-23-2010, 07:03 AM #21Junior Guru Wannabe
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plumsauce, we have no evidence that Inergen caused the damage here. In fact, Westhost have been obfuscating on the issue ever since the original problem occured several days ago.
Any host that goes down for a whole week because the fire protection system was triggered needs to point a finger somewhere. For the moment WH is trying to imply that it's the Inergen that's the cause of all their servers getting damaged ...while at the same time not categorically saying that.
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02-23-2010, 07:07 AM #22Web Hosting Master
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I can confirm 100% that it was the Inergen based fire protection system that caused all the issues we had in the Salt Lake City DC.
http://status.vps.net/?p=136 <- read more there. (VPS.NET shares DC space with Westhost - both owned by UK2Group.com)
DDitlev Bredahl. CEO,
OnApp.com + Cloud.net & CDN.net
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02-23-2010, 07:36 AM #23WHT Addict
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I am not sure if you can actually confirm that Inergen discharge caused hardware failure, and just saying that you can is not a proof of confirming it.
Report from Consonus http://status.vps.net/wp-content/upl...010/02/cip.pdf is of Inergen discharge, not that it caused such a widespread computer hardware failure.
Do you have any proof ?
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02-23-2010, 07:39 AM #24Junior Guru Wannabe
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Thanks for your reply.
the Inergen based fire protection system that caused all the issues
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02-23-2010, 07:44 AM #25Web Hosting Master
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Proof? Well, all the proof I need.
At 2PM all systems etc were fine
At 2.21PM the Inergen suppression system was released (human error it seems)
10 mins later or so, we lost ~300 hard drives
And it was not only us, all the other COLO clients in the DC were running around replacing drives like mad men.
Asking my brilliant IT manager I got this answer:
(...)Essentially, due to an accidental release of Inergen during a routing
fire inspection yesterday the sudden increase of air pressure on the
data center floor resulted in mass disk failures, files corruption, and
failed arrays. See below for a more detailed explanation:
The (mostly) sealed enclosure protects the drive internals from dust,
condensation, and other sources of contamination. The hard disk's
read-write heads fly on an air bearing (a cushion of air) only
nanometers above the disk surface. The disk surface and the drive's
internal environment must therefore be kept immaculately clean, as
fingerprints, hair, dust, and even smoke particles have mountain-sized
dimensions when compared to the submicroscopic gap that the heads
maintain.
Some people believe a disk drive contains a vacuum - this is incorrect,
as the system relies on air pressure inside the drive to support the
heads at their proper flying height while the disk is in motion. Another
common misconception is that a hard drive is totally sealed. A hard disk
drive requires a certain range of air pressures in order to operate
properly. If the air pressure is too low, the air will not exert enough
force on the flying head, the head will not be at the proper height, and
there is a risk of head crashes and data loss. (Specially manufactured
sealed and pressurized drives are needed for reliable high-altitude
operation, above about 10,000 feet.) Some modern drives include flying
height sensors to detect if the pressure is too low, and temperature
sensors to alert the system to overheating problems.
Best regards,
Matt McBride (CCNP, CCDP, CISSP)
IT Manager
DDitlev Bredahl. CEO,
OnApp.com + Cloud.net & CDN.net