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[Fair Dinkum]

November 22, 2004
Release Number: 04-11-77


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


INSURGENTS FAKING DEAD FIRES ON MARINES

FALLUJAH, Iraq – Marines from the 1st Marine Division shot and killed an insurgent, who while faking dead, opened fire on the Marines that were conducting a security and clearing patrol through the streets here at approximately 3:45 p.m. on 21 November.

For more information, please contact Capt Bradley Gordon, public affairs officer, 1st Marine Division

[SniperDevil]

No surprise, who would have thunk?

[Fair Dinkum]

Originally posted by SniperDevil
No surprise, who would have thunk?

Well, some here seem to be shocked. The last time it happend, some got all freaked out. In fact, I was insulted when I pointed out this was a common tactic. Ahh, to be naive again, and live in a cute and cuddly world.

[SniperDevil]

Originally posted by SB-Host
Well, some here seem to be shocked. The last time it happend, some got all freaked out. In fact, I was insulted when I pointed out this was a common tactic. Ahh, to be naive again, and live in a cute and cuddly world.

You're calling me naive, yet you say that many people would be shocked? Hah! The irony! This is how they fight, in case you haven't figured it out.

P.S. Enough with the personal attacks.

[JayC]

Originally posted by SB-Host
In fact, I was insulted when I pointed out this was a common tactic.

Well, I'll brave insult and also state that it's a common tactic. Of course it is, and not just by these combatants and in this battle. People on every side in perhaps every battle throughout history have "played dead" and then attacked.

Even TV heroes use the technique. Even Captain Kirk did it.

When your side does it it's a smart, brave, heroic tactic. When the other side does it, it's unfair trickery.

[Fair Dinkum]

Originally posted by SniperDevil
You're calling me naive, yet you say that many people would be shocked? Hah! The irony! This is how they fight, in case you haven't figured it out.

P.S. Enough with the personal attacks.

Read it again snniper. I did not say YOU are naive. Sheesh. I long for the days we can all be naive. Unfortunately, I had to explain that.

Was NOT a personal attack. Just a comprehension issue.

[SniperDevil]

Originally posted by JayC
When your side does it it's a smart, brave, heroic tactic. When the other side does it, it's unfair trickery.

Agreed. When your side does anything the least bit commendable or resulting in enemy casualties, the person responsible receives a medal. When the other side does it, they are the scum of the earth. Of course, that's what war is about, eh?

[Torith]

So should an army person get in trouble for killing someone who is faking dead who could have a bomb on them? So are we suppose let them kill our men just in case they do not have a weapon on them?

[Fair Dinkum]

Originally posted by JayC
Well, I'll brave insult and also state that it's a common tactic. Of course it is, and not just by these combatants and in this battle. People on every side in perhaps every battle throughout history have "played dead" and then attacked.

Even TV heroes use the technique. Even Captain Kirk did it.

When your side does it it's a smart, brave, heroic tactic. When the other side does it, it's unfair trickery.

And the issue is? I posted a press release. Doubtful the mainstream press will carry it much. People cried fowl over the last marine issue... I posted a counterpoint the.... and am posting a factual incident now.

People can make their own choices as to point of view. I am simply posting release that are factual. Just as I did previously.

[adam]

Some people just don"t understand, SniperDevil, if your father was killed by an insurgent faking dead would you be upset with what the marine did the other week?

[SniperDevil]

Originally posted by Torith
So should an army person get in trouble for killing someone who is faking dead who could have a bomb on them? So are we suppose let them kill our men just in case they do not have a weapon on them?

Huh? Where did that come from? That is irrelevant to this topic. We weren't talking about what the Marines should or should not have done.

Originally posted by HBN
Some people just don"t understand, SniperDevil, if your father was killed by an insurgent faking dead would you be upset with what the marine did the other week?

Another post that seems irrelevant... war's war, if my dad indeed did go to Iraq, he'd know what he was in for.

[JayC]

Originally posted by Torith
So should an army person get in trouble for killing someone who is faking dead who could have a bomb on them? So are we suppose let them kill our men just in case they do not have a weapon on them?

Ever watch a movie thriller, where the villain appears to have been killed and the victim, thinking he's won, turns around to hug the girl or something... but of course the bad guy's not dead! He jumps up and springs to attack!

We watch that and know the character's making a big mistake by assuming the guy is dead.

Ever watch a show like Cops and see how police officers approach a wounded suspect cautiously, roll him over and handcuff him before examining his injuries? Just being smart and cautious, and doing exactly what they're trained to do.

In a military situation, the same caution has to be exercised. Someone who appears to be dead may not be; someone who appears to be injured may still be dangerous. Does that mean simply shoot people who are already down? No doubt that happens -- but it's generally not the accepted procedure, based on both treaty and rules of engagement. But people who are apparently injured or dead have to be approached as if they are dangerous. Just like every corner has to be approached as if there's someone waiting behind it, and every rooftop or high window has to be treated as if it hides a sniper.

Originally posted by SB-Host
And the issue is?

What issue? I just agreed with you that it's a common tactic, and expanded on the idea.

Not everything has to be a challenge to an argument.

[SniperDevil]

Just a little side note: Unfortunately, simply shooting someone does not guarantee they will fall. In fact, it's quite the opposite if you get them anywhere but critical organs or the head (and sometimes not even then, you must hit them in the upper head near the brain; the temple is a good place to aim for). Many times, the person you shoot will get extremely angry; the adrenaline rush will only help them lunge at you, and they most likely won't feel pain until after they've done the dirty work.

Personally, if the insurgent was injured and not perfectly okay, I think Marines should really ensure the people they target are indeed done before simply overlooking the bodies. This sometimes results in a catastrophic massacre by an insurgent with an AK-47.

[Torith]

I agree people should take the time to make sure if they are dead, alive, ect. Though this is war, and it is different compared to a police man going down the street. Though wouldnt it seem most likely if an army person went up to the guy that he would pull a bomb out or a gun and shoot him?

Originally posted by JayC
Ever watch a movie thriller, where the villain appears to have been killed and the victim, thinking he's won, turns around to hug the girl or something... but of course the bad guy's not dead! He jumps up and springs to attack!

We watch that and know the character's making a big mistake by assuming the guy is dead.

Ever watch a show like Cops and see how police officers approach a wounded suspect cautiously, roll him over and handcuff him before examining his injuries? Just being smart and cautious, and doing exactly what they're trained to do.

In a military situation, the same caution has to be exercised. Someone who appears to be dead may not be; someone who appears to be injured may still be dangerous. Does that mean simply shoot people who are already down? No doubt that happens -- but it's generally not the accepted procedure, based on both treaty and rules of engagement. But people who are apparently injured or dead have to be approached as if they are dangerous. Just like every corner has to be approached as if there's someone waiting behind it, and every rooftop or high window has to be treated as if it hides a sniper.

[Eye9FX]

Originally posted by SniperDevil
Just a little side note: Unfortunately, simply shooting someone does not guarantee they will fall. In fact, it's quite the opposite if you get them anywhere but critical organs or the head (and sometimes not even then, you must hit them in the upper head near the brain; the temple is a good place to aim for). Many times, the person you shoot will get extremely angry; the adrenaline rush will only help them lunge at you, and they most likely won't feel pain until after they've done the dirty work.

Personally, if the insurgent was injured and not perfectly okay, I think Marines should really ensure the people they target are indeed done before simply overlooking the bodies. This sometimes results in a catastrophic massacre by an insurgent with an AK-47.

Let’s not go use moves we learned from Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon. The real world is a little different…