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10-30-2004, 10:36 AM #101Retired ***ulator
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As an accessibility advocate, when someone says "I'm not a big ALT tag user.." does not score any brownie points with me. That's like me driving a bus up to a wheelchair waiting at a bus stop and me saying "Sorry, I'm not a big wheelchair fan," close the doors and drive on leaving without picking up the chair.
The ALT tag issue would only take a few seconds to fix and it's done. Recently there was an older thread where I mentioned the iBar was missing an ALT tag...Ryan had it fixed within a short time... Bamm! Done! When the screen reader takes in the forum, "I-n-e-t Interactive" is the first thing it says.
Originally posted by Simpli-Erica
I cannot respect anyone who calls himself a "Creative Director" and displays that much ignorance about web design. Seriously... how can you get paid a salary to do web design and not know the difference between an alt attribute and a title attribute? Not only that, but blatantly disregard web standards and accepted practices for disabled web surfers, only use Internet Explorer, and assume its incorrect behavior to be correct just because it's the only browser you use? I just don't get it.
Ryan, why don't you listen to the constructive criticism offered and change the thread icons? They don't have to be the envelopes... just something that actually makes sense.73's, Kim
Everything happens for a reason I make up.
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10-30-2004, 10:58 AM #102Web Developer
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Also, it seems the mouseover on the bottom links was changed. The problem I see now is that it's going from light blue to white. I would suggest making the blue slightly darker, then making the mouseover a very very light blue, and removing the bars between the letters. Also (again), the light blue bars above and below the main buttons make them seem unnatural. Try removing them and making the dividers turn them into real buttons.
I would also appreciate some feedback from Greg--fifteen minutes for a reply to everyone's suggestions wouldn't be too much. Or atleast something saying you don't want criticism. If so, I'd gladly leave the thread.. (and for a fee, I'm sure many of us would be willing to make the changes ourselves--I know Paul and I are very fluent in CSS, and I assume Erica and others have similar experience. If WHT was redone with HTML/CSS, the accessibility would skyrocket, and I would bet the loading time would be halved.)
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10-30-2004, 11:27 AM #103Retired Moderator
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(and for a fee, I'm sure many of us would be willing to make the changes ourselves--I know Paul and I are very fluent in CSS, and I assume Erica and others have similar experience. If WHT was redone with HTML/CSS, the accessibility would skyrocket, and I would bet the loading time would be halved.)
Erica, I totally understand and agree with your assertions that many of the basic accessibility concerns that haven't been met should be, but when I see the title "Creative Director," I assume this means Greg is not the coder, rather he's the in charge of directing how the interface is developed on the surface, and someone else is charged with the engineering. Maybe with all of the fuss being raised, the valid points have been duly noted and will be worked out. Let's take it as "message sent," and see what comes of it.Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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10-30-2004, 01:20 PM #104Web Hosting Evangelist
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http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html
Good bit of reading for those that say : "I'm not a big ALT tag user..".
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10-30-2004, 01:44 PM #105Retired ***ulator
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Good link!
Someone in our accessibility group also took a look at the new skin and even Greg's site. Instead of relaying what their comment was, I told them to sign up and post.
Originally posted by Jamesc
http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html
Good bit of reading for those that say : "I'm not a big ALT tag user..".73's, Kim
Everything happens for a reason I make up.
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10-30-2004, 01:53 PM #106Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by DanX
I would also appreciate some feedback from Greg--fifteen minutes for a reply to everyone's suggestions wouldn't be too much. Or atleast something saying you don't want criticism. If so, I'd gladly leave the thread..Jeremy Johnstone
Personal Blog: http://www.jeremyjohnstone.com/blog
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10-30-2004, 02:06 PM #107Web Hosting Evangelist
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No problem KimmiKat i could dig out more but haven't got the time:0
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10-30-2004, 02:09 PM #108Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Jeremy Johnstone
I very seriously doubt Greg will reply on the weekend. The majority (but not all) of iNET employees don't get on the forums on the weekend.John Heslop
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10-30-2004, 02:09 PM #109Retired Moderator
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Originally posted by jheslop1
why?Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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10-30-2004, 02:15 PM #110Web Hosting Master
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yea I know I have a life too
John Heslop
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10-30-2004, 05:24 PM #111Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by jheslop1
yea I know I have a life too
But seriously, I like the new design. It needs some touching up, but I think it's modern..and spiffy!
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10-30-2004, 06:31 PM #112Never said anything about VB3 upgrade. It's NOT coming. For now. Or is it? No. Maybe? Yes. Nope. Well, hmmm, should it? I dunno. No. Perhaps.
My thoughts on the skin? love it! I'm not a traditionalist. I can see that a lot was done on both skins, and they both look sweet. The new skin is much needed, as anything changes over time. I think the old one's been the same for a year or so (sans the iNet properties on top).
It looks good, clean and smooth. Great job!!!
Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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10-30-2004, 08:31 PM #113
Sorry for the double, just thought I'd mention this (if it hasn't been already).
Hostquote is still using the old theme, might wanna have that looked @Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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10-30-2004, 08:31 PM #114Web Hosting Master
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I like the new design, but I think the new posts icon needs to be changed. Not much difference between it and the normal icon, just a small yellow square. Maybe make the square bigger, or put something else on it like an exclamation point.
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10-30-2004, 11:57 PM #115CISSP-ISSMP, CISA
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I must concurr, the new skin is pretty ugly.
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10-31-2004, 01:20 AM #116Junior Guru Wannabe
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I love the overall feel to the new design... but like others have said, it's too hard to tell which icon beside the threads are which. It's nice to be able to distinguish threads like that easily.
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10-31-2004, 09:46 AM #117Retired Moderator
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I don't see the new skin as a guest, not sure if it's intended to be that way?
It looks quite nice especially the header, good job, though i'll probally stick with the "lite" skin.Hyperconfused (™)
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10-31-2004, 10:10 AM #118
As it is the default skin, I would assume you should see it when not logged in? I always knew when I was a "guest" with the old setup because I got the now old default skin instead of the now defunct "old" skin. Confused yet?
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10-31-2004, 02:05 PM #119Web Hosting Guru
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I want to like the new design. It has all of the bevel/gradient effects I usually dig, but my only complaint is... it just doesn't match. The buttons, thread, text box, scroll bar, and iNet bar all use the old black/silver color scheme. Then you have random light blue in the background and header, and dark blues in the table header.
If you want to have a dark blue/light blue color scheme, you're going in the right direction... but all of this dark gray is clashing. It looks like the old skin was slapped on top of a new skin, instead of integrated with one. You should really pick a scheme and go with it.
Just my opinion."Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did."
- Mark Twain
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10-31-2004, 02:58 PM #120Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Ryan Elledge
Web Rhino,
Just went to your site. Could you remove that splash page where I have to click something to enter it? Man, I hate nothing more than having to click a page to enter a site I thought I entered when I went to it.
ilyash, that font you use... not pleasing on the eyes. And the site takes too long to load. The dots in the background on the sides is a bit too much, makes me somewhat ill.
===
In seriousness folks, Im not picking on Web Rhino or ilyash, they were merely the last two people to post before I wrote this that had a link to their site in their profile. People like things about sites, and dislike things about sites. That's a given. People get accustomed to things the way they are, then dislike them when they change. Their is comfort in the same, no doubt about it.
Point is, we launched the new skin for WHT and it is what it is folks. We're not changing the logo... counter intuitive to branding. We're not going back to the stock vb icons for threads... too outdated, over done, and not unique to the site.
The new skin is what it is....
If you don't like it, be thankful we gave you the option of selecting the old one. It is what it is.
Continued feedback is welcome, have at it. Constructive criticism is accepted. But, it is what it is. Enjoy it, or go back to the old skin... it is your choice!
Comments like "Jesus. How long have you been a web designer?" are just childish, immature, disrespectful, and dispicable.
I dont see a reason...
I mean it may be my opinion that i dont like it..
but there are plenty of other users who also dont.webmaster A T 420th.com
What is my Itunes playing? Visit 420th.com/nowplaying.jsp to find out.
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10-31-2004, 07:18 PM #121Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by BigBison
Now I see it. I've never changed my skin in my preferences, I wonder why it wasn't set for default?
As to the new design, I like it fine with one gripe. Please bring back the old thread icons -- the envelopes made inherent sense, the new icons do not.
This isn't an "I'll get used to it" type of thing. Big, thick threads used to be easy to pick out because of the icon -- oh, look at the fat envelope. Now, you could switch the icons around and re-label the legend -- there's no distinctiveness, no inherent meaning to the new icons.
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10-31-2004, 07:22 PM #122Web Hosting Master
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We're not going back to the stock vb icons for threads... too outdated, over done, and not unique to the site.
These new ones you guys have may be new and unique to the site, but they carry little in terms of usability...and well, if any designer chooses to put "uniqueness" over "use", I truly pity them.
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10-31-2004, 09:12 PM #123Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by ilyash
But why make a good looking thing bad?
I dont see a reason...
I mean it may be my opinion that i dont like it..
but there are plenty of other users who also dont.
And plenty who do!Best Regards,
Ryan Elledge
Chief Operating Officer, Codero Hosting
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10-31-2004, 09:29 PM #124Newbie
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^ agreed. There is alot of us here that love the new skin , and the old skin is still there for those who dont like the new one ... so I dont really see what all the bitching and complaining is about - if you dont like the new one .. use the old one ? - simple as that.
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11-01-2004, 12:14 AM #125Web Hosting Master
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Because the old one will be removed with the VB3 upgrade, and we want a site that we spend over two hours a day surfing on to look decent...