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  1. #101
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    As an accessibility advocate, when someone says "I'm not a big ALT tag user.." does not score any brownie points with me. That's like me driving a bus up to a wheelchair waiting at a bus stop and me saying "Sorry, I'm not a big wheelchair fan," close the doors and drive on leaving without picking up the chair.

    The ALT tag issue would only take a few seconds to fix and it's done. Recently there was an older thread where I mentioned the iBar was missing an ALT tag...Ryan had it fixed within a short time... Bamm! Done! When the screen reader takes in the forum, "I-n-e-t Interactive" is the first thing it says.


    Originally posted by Simpli-Erica
    I cannot respect anyone who calls himself a "Creative Director" and displays that much ignorance about web design. Seriously... how can you get paid a salary to do web design and not know the difference between an alt attribute and a title attribute? Not only that, but blatantly disregard web standards and accepted practices for disabled web surfers, only use Internet Explorer, and assume its incorrect behavior to be correct just because it's the only browser you use? I just don't get it.

    Ryan, why don't you listen to the constructive criticism offered and change the thread icons? They don't have to be the envelopes... just something that actually makes sense.
    73's, Kim
    Everything happens for a reason I make up.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Connecticut
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    Also, it seems the mouseover on the bottom links was changed. The problem I see now is that it's going from light blue to white. I would suggest making the blue slightly darker, then making the mouseover a very very light blue, and removing the bars between the letters. Also (again), the light blue bars above and below the main buttons make them seem unnatural. Try removing them and making the dividers turn them into real buttons.


    I would also appreciate some feedback from Greg--fifteen minutes for a reply to everyone's suggestions wouldn't be too much. Or atleast something saying you don't want criticism. If so, I'd gladly leave the thread.. (and for a fee, I'm sure many of us would be willing to make the changes ourselves--I know Paul and I are very fluent in CSS, and I assume Erica and others have similar experience. If WHT was redone with HTML/CSS, the accessibility would skyrocket, and I would bet the loading time would be halved.)

  3. #103
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    (and for a fee, I'm sure many of us would be willing to make the changes ourselves--I know Paul and I are very fluent in CSS, and I assume Erica and others have similar experience. If WHT was redone with HTML/CSS, the accessibility would skyrocket, and I would bet the loading time would be halved.)
    Heh heh, let's not rope the_pm into a project like this - I'm already considering reengineering phpBB to be XHTML 1.1 Strict with AAA accessibility compliance. I'm pretty sure it's impossible, but that's not going to stop me from trying (thanks for the vote of confidence, Dan)

    Erica, I totally understand and agree with your assertions that many of the basic accessibility concerns that haven't been met should be, but when I see the title "Creative Director," I assume this means Greg is not the coder, rather he's the in charge of directing how the interface is developed on the surface, and someone else is charged with the engineering. Maybe with all of the fuss being raised, the valid points have been duly noted and will be worked out. Let's take it as "message sent," and see what comes of it.
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    England
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    http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html

    Good bit of reading for those that say : "I'm not a big ALT tag user..".
    James Chillman -UK Backup Limited
    www.ukbackup.com- Online Backup Offsite Backup, Backup Software

  5. #105
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    Good link!

    Someone in our accessibility group also took a look at the new skin and even Greg's site. Instead of relaying what their comment was, I told them to sign up and post.

    Originally posted by Jamesc
    http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html

    Good bit of reading for those that say : "I'm not a big ALT tag user..".
    73's, Kim
    Everything happens for a reason I make up.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Originally posted by DanX
    I would also appreciate some feedback from Greg--fifteen minutes for a reply to everyone's suggestions wouldn't be too much. Or atleast something saying you don't want criticism. If so, I'd gladly leave the thread..
    I very seriously doubt Greg will reply on the weekend. The majority (but not all) of iNET employees don't get on the forums on the weekend.
    Jeremy Johnstone
    Personal Blog: http://www.jeremyjohnstone.com/blog

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    England
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    No problem KimmiKat i could dig out more but haven't got the time:0
    James Chillman -UK Backup Limited
    www.ukbackup.com- Online Backup Offsite Backup, Backup Software

  8. #108
    Originally posted by Jeremy Johnstone
    I very seriously doubt Greg will reply on the weekend. The majority (but not all) of iNET employees don't get on the forums on the weekend.
    why?
    John Heslop

  9. #109
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by jheslop1
    why?
    Because unlike most of us, they have lives
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  10. #110
    yea I know I have a life too
    John Heslop

  11. #111
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Kirkland, WA
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    Originally posted by jheslop1
    yea I know I have a life too
    ...and it revolves around WHT.

    But seriously, I like the new design. It needs some touching up, but I think it's modern..and spiffy!
    Nick Nelson
    Sr. Director & GM, VAS
    Demand Media
    425.298.2282 nn@demandmedia.com

  12. #112
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    Never said anything about VB3 upgrade. It's NOT coming. For now. Or is it? No. Maybe? Yes. Nope. Well, hmmm, should it? I dunno. No. Perhaps.
    Well, given the fact that SWR has pretty much stated that things are being put off until it DOES come, I'd think it's a matter of WHEN, not IF.

    My thoughts on the skin? love it! I'm not a traditionalist. I can see that a lot was done on both skins, and they both look sweet. The new skin is much needed, as anything changes over time. I think the old one's been the same for a year or so (sans the iNet properties on top).
    It looks good, clean and smooth. Great job!!!
    Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
    Linux problems? WHMCS Problems? Give me a shout
    Check out my WHMCS Addons

  13. #113
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    Sorry for the double, just thought I'd mention this (if it hasn't been already).
    Hostquote is still using the old theme, might wanna have that looked @
    Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
    Linux problems? WHMCS Problems? Give me a shout
    Check out my WHMCS Addons

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    I like the new design, but I think the new posts icon needs to be changed. Not much difference between it and the normal icon, just a small yellow square. Maybe make the square bigger, or put something else on it like an exclamation point.
    GotPing Internet
    www.gotping.com

  15. #115
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    I must concurr, the new skin is pretty ugly.

  16. #116
    I love the overall feel to the new design... but like others have said, it's too hard to tell which icon beside the threads are which. It's nice to be able to distinguish threads like that easily.

    ~Nick
    »» Nick
    »» 3D Portfolio: InuxStudios -- 3D Logos, web servers, icons... [ACCEPTING REQUESTS]
    »» Arcade Network: InuxGames -- #1 source for arcade flash games

  17. #117
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    I don't see the new skin as a guest, not sure if it's intended to be that way?

    It looks quite nice especially the header, good job, though i'll probally stick with the "lite" skin.
    Hyperconfused (™)

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
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    As it is the default skin, I would assume you should see it when not logged in? I always knew when I was a "guest" with the old setup because I got the now old default skin instead of the now defunct "old" skin. Confused yet?

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    New Orleans, LA
    Posts
    261
    I want to like the new design. It has all of the bevel/gradient effects I usually dig, but my only complaint is... it just doesn't match. The buttons, thread, text box, scroll bar, and iNet bar all use the old black/silver color scheme. Then you have random light blue in the background and header, and dark blues in the table header.

    If you want to have a dark blue/light blue color scheme, you're going in the right direction... but all of this dark gray is clashing. It looks like the old skin was slapped on top of a new skin, instead of integrated with one. You should really pick a scheme and go with it.

    Just my opinion.
    "Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did."
    - Mark Twain

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    NY, NY
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    3,974
    Originally posted by Ryan Elledge
    Web Rhino,

    Just went to your site. Could you remove that splash page where I have to click something to enter it? Man, I hate nothing more than having to click a page to enter a site I thought I entered when I went to it.

    ilyash, that font you use... not pleasing on the eyes. And the site takes too long to load. The dots in the background on the sides is a bit too much, makes me somewhat ill.

    ===
    In seriousness folks, Im not picking on Web Rhino or ilyash, they were merely the last two people to post before I wrote this that had a link to their site in their profile. People like things about sites, and dislike things about sites. That's a given. People get accustomed to things the way they are, then dislike them when they change. Their is comfort in the same, no doubt about it.

    Point is, we launched the new skin for WHT and it is what it is folks. We're not changing the logo... counter intuitive to branding. We're not going back to the stock vb icons for threads... too outdated, over done, and not unique to the site.

    The new skin is what it is....

    If you don't like it, be thankful we gave you the option of selecting the old one. It is what it is.

    Continued feedback is welcome, have at it. Constructive criticism is accepted. But, it is what it is. Enjoy it, or go back to the old skin... it is your choice!

    Comments like "Jesus. How long have you been a web designer?" are just childish, immature, disrespectful, and dispicable.
    But why make a good looking thing bad?
    I dont see a reason...

    I mean it may be my opinion that i dont like it..
    but there are plenty of other users who also dont.

  21. #121
    Originally posted by BigBison
    Now I see it. I've never changed my skin in my preferences, I wonder why it wasn't set for default?

    As to the new design, I like it fine with one gripe. Please bring back the old thread icons -- the envelopes made inherent sense, the new icons do not.

    This isn't an "I'll get used to it" type of thing. Big, thick threads used to be easy to pick out because of the icon -- oh, look at the fat envelope. Now, you could switch the icons around and re-label the legend -- there's no distinctiveness, no inherent meaning to the new icons.
    Ditto. Get us the old thread icons back Please....

  22. #122
    We're not going back to the stock vb icons for threads... too outdated, over done, and not unique to the site.
    ...but nonetheless, they served their purpose which was to let forum surfers know very quickly what kind of thread it is.

    These new ones you guys have may be new and unique to the site, but they carry little in terms of usability...and well, if any designer chooses to put "uniqueness" over "use", I truly pity them.

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
    Posts
    521
    Originally posted by ilyash
    But why make a good looking thing bad?
    I dont see a reason...

    I mean it may be my opinion that i dont like it..
    but there are plenty of other users who also dont.

    And plenty who do!
    Best Regards,
    Ryan Elledge
    Chief Operating Officer, Codero Hosting

  24. #124
    ^ agreed. There is alot of us here that love the new skin , and the old skin is still there for those who dont like the new one ... so I dont really see what all the bitching and complaining is about - if you dont like the new one .. use the old one ? - simple as that.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,306
    Because the old one will be removed with the VB3 upgrade, and we want a site that we spend over two hours a day surfing on to look decent...

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