Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Web Design and Content : Msie Is A Disgrace!

[nuk3]

"The PNG image format was designed to be a replacement for the GIF format, due to both copyright and design problems with GIF. However, the latest version of Microsoft Internet Explorer (MSIE) still does not have full and proper support for the image format."

I ask that everyone please at least read the rest of this petition and sign it if they agree. Something needs to be done because webmasters/webmistresses are sick of not being able to use THE FULL POTENTIAL of PNG IMAGES on their websites. This is due to the fact that a lot of their visitors, and internet users in general, still use IE which has craptacular support for the amazing features of png images.

Thanks for you time.

http://www.petitiononline.com/msiepng/petition.html

[Rich2k]

However it's all academic now anyway, there are no copyright problems with GIF's anymore.

[nuk3]

Yeah well.. I still want to be able to use alpha transparency on my websites without worrying about whether the visitor will get a transparent image or an image with a light blue colour where the transparency should be.

[Rich2k]

Well just use GIFs then.

You can't use transparencies in PNGs as IE has never supported it.

[Dan L]

Also, Microsoft could care less about petitions.

[robgct]

You can use PNG's in IE with CSS hack.

[jamesyfx]

^I was just about to say that.

Thats why I think they're ignoring all this.. it 'technically' works.

[BigBison]

IE does support PNG index transparency, just not alpha-level transparency, so I upgraded my transparent .gifs to transparent .pngs and they work just fine in IE. If you can't do it with a .gif, don't do it with PNG and expect it to work in IE6.

Note that MSIE 5.5 on the MAC supports full alpha transparency. The Mac and Windows versions of IE are a different codebase, one group got it right.

The real problem with PNGs is IE's problem on Windows, of getting the gamma correction wrong.

http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngstatus.html#browsers
http://www.evolt.org/article/To_PNG_..._PNG/22/60134/

[nuk3]

The whole point of alpha-level transparency on the most part is to allow one to do nifty effects like drop-shadows and anti-aliasing against any background.

If you try and put a white circle in the middle of a transparent (gif) image and then put that on a black background it'll be more jagged than a game with negative 2 anti-aliasing.

However, if you do the same with a transparent (png) image with alpha-level transparency it'll look great. So you guys are saying that it is fine for the Windows version of IE not to support it?

---------------
Danx: Microsoft may not care about petitions, but doing something is better than doing nothing.

[BigBison]

Gosh no, where did you ever get that idea? It sucks that IE-Windows gets it wrong, that's the only thing holding back wider adoption of alpha transparency on the web. I was just saying it's misleading to state "IE doesn't support transparent PNGs". I have no argument that alpha-level makes nicer effects. The transparent gifs I was using look absolutely no different as PNGs, probably because they're only 16-color and the jaggedness is expected. My point is, if your nice transparency only looks good as PNG not GIF, it won't look right in IE until the next upgrade, which I mockingly assume will be 2007, so you'll have to take that into consideration.

It also really sucks that with all the versions of IE since Mac 5.2, Microsoft has failed to get that PNG code ported into the Windows version of the "product". What can you expect from a company whose JPEG decompression was a security flaw?

[nuk3]

Sorry about this double post, but you guys should take a look at this:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity/

Its the CSS hack xcage was talking about. Why am I not surprised? There are so many hacks out there for IE that allow work-arounds to get even the simplest things displaying properly.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...ck&btnG=Search

[the_pm]

Why am I not surprised? There are so many hacks out there for IE that allow work-arounds to get even the simplest things displaying properly.

You shouldn't be surprised. Microsoft abandoned its highly flawed browser almost immediately after releasing it. With the exception of the occassional security update (too many legal problems if they let this go), IE has gone untouched for the last four years. That's a long time for developers near and far to devise hacks to make the browser do things properly.

IE is held together with duct tape and bubble gum. I truly hope they get IE7 right. I'd much rather have standards compliant browsers and a promise for continual refinement than have to b**** about IE and search out obscure hacks. I have no problem with IE owning the majority of market share. I have a problem with them doing it using the second worse browser build ever released (NS4 was worse - barely).

[jamesyfx]

I just hope IE7 isn't integrated into the OS.. thats a terrible feature.

[the_pm]

Originally posted by jamesyfx
I just hope IE7 isn't integrated into the OS.. thats a terrible feature.

Not only will IE7 be integrated into the OS, it will not be available as a standalone application. Period. You can't get it on disc, download it or hack it without hacking up the OS too. Evolt will not be able to add it to its download list. It will not be removable. It will be the ultimate integrated program. God help us all in our time of need...

[MALdito]

just a comment .. sure IE has a long list of "things that suck" .. but putting it second worst only to ns4 ... pluuuuuuuuuuuease!

About png .. doesnt support animation neither .. soo .. there goes the "alternative to gif" sales pitch ..