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10-08-2004, 04:58 PM #1Mr. Awesome
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NetNation.com announces UNLIMITED bandwidth - bad bad bad
Well, it's too bad. I guess we can add NetNation.com and NetNation.ca to the list of web hosts who have decided to go down the false advertising road of "UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH".
From their main sales page:
All shared hosting plans now include UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH, ...At last, web hosting Nirvana.....
Are bandwidth charges holding you back? Why should you be penalized for your success? After working so hard to succeed shouldn’t you be rewarded, rather than getting annoying bandwidth overage charges? We think so too, that is why NetNation is leading the industry by being the first to virtually eliminate hated bandwidth overages
But now they have joined the false advertising bandwagon.
Don't they know there is no such thing as "unlimited"?
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10-08-2004, 06:23 PM #2Web Hosting Master
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You should see more and more hosts offering unlimited bandwidth very soon, the way things are going, thats the last straw..
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10-08-2004, 06:25 PM #3Web Hosting Guru
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argh I just wish customers rejected companies which advertise such things.
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10-08-2004, 06:33 PM #4Web Hosting Guru
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It ticks me off sometimes how so many people on here have the "WHT Mentality" that any site that uses the word Unlimited is bad.
Yes, web hosts run by 15 year olds who have eBay auctions and advertise Unlimited Space and Bandwidth, bad, but not just because they advertise Unlimited stuff, also because you know they won't be there in a week. So in the past, seeing Unlimited everything was usually a good indication that they won't be around long.
Now with NetNation, I really don't think that's the case.
They don't charge $2/month and claim to give you the world. They're prices are actually quite high, but that's because they're aiming for business customers mainly.
NetNation cannot be put into the same boat at the 15 year olds on eBay. NetNation are not going to disapear like the 15 year olds who suddenly need to go back to school in September.
What NetNation are doing here is simple. They know that they're customers are generally going to use a certain ammount of bandwidth, and they're ready for this. All they're doing is simplifying things for their main customers - small/medium businesses who don't want to, understandably, have to worry about bandwidth usage.
To be honest, I don't see this as a bad thing for NetNation.
Maybe we're seeing a shift. In the past, seeing Unlimited stuff on a site was a good indication they were a crappy company (but not actually because of the Unlimited claims, it was just an indicator) but now someone like NetNation is doing it, I don't think that can be said any more....
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10-08-2004, 06:52 PM #5WHT Addict
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I agree with robdavy all the way except not all unlimited offers are fake. You CAN give unlimited FTP accounts and unlimited email lists ect. Those are legitimate offers that work. The ones that are usually a lie to attract customers are the ones that advertise Unlimited Bandwidth or unlimited web space.
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10-08-2004, 06:54 PM #6Mr. Awesome
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Originally posted by robdavy
It ticks me off sometimes how so many people on here have the "WHT Mentality" that any site that uses the word Unlimited is bad.
There is no such thing as unlimited bandwidth. It's a matter of physics. it's like saying there is unlimited air.
There is a limit to it.. sure it might be high.. but there is still a limit.We are eNom PLATINUM PLUS resellers!
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10-08-2004, 06:55 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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Well they will not provide it anyway. Most of their customers will not need to use it. It is bad-mannered marketing trick. But it is OK. I wish them Good Luck
Regards
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10-08-2004, 07:03 PM #8Web Hosting Guru
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Originally posted by mrzippy
If you can explain to me how unlimited bandwidth is physically possible, then I will agree with you.
There is no such thing as unlimited bandwidth. It's a matter of physics. it's like saying there is unlimited air.
There is a limit to it.. sure it might be high.. but there is still a limit.
That's still technically impossible.
My point is this:
Up until now, generally whenever you saw "Unlimited Bandwidth" (or similar) you knew you were dealing with a certain type of company (one that would not be there next week/month/year). This wasn't because they were offering Unlimited Bandwidth per say, but because it's a certain type of company that would offer it.
But now NetNation is doing it, the situation has totally changed
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10-08-2004, 07:04 PM #9Web Hosting Guru
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Also, most ordinary people (non-web hosting people) understand Unlimited better than Unmetered, and in real terms, they mean the same thing
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10-08-2004, 07:06 PM #10WHT Addict
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So how come the board generally accepts that "Unlimited Email Accounts or Unlimited FTP Accounts" is ok?
That's still technically impossible.www.netwavehosting.com - Cheap + Reliable
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10-08-2004, 07:11 PM #11Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by robdavy
What NetNation are doing here is simple. They know that they're customers are generally going to use a certain ammount of bandwidth, and they're ready for this. All they're doing is simplifying things for their main customers - small/medium businesses who don't want to, understandably, have to worry about bandwidth usage.
But this is not limited to hosting companies, ISPs, at least around these parts pull the same tricks, advertising "flat rate" connections, but then shutting down accounts or whinging and moaning when people use more than a couple of gig a month - "oh but we didn't actually MEAN it was flat rate like you could use as much as you like, just as much as the average person uses".
If a company is going to say unlimited, they either don't know what they are saying, or they know they are misrepresenting the truth and don't care about thier reputation.
Now if hey said unmetered, fine, you can certainly sell unmetered usage, but unlimited is simply not possible with the laws of physics, and you can't break those.
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10-08-2004, 07:14 PM #12Web Hosting Guru
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Originally posted by NetwaveHosting
The clients see in their cpanel that they have Unlimited and they assume they can have it. They can make as many accounts as they feel....but with that many people checking the accounts they will run out of bandwidth very fast. And most people wont even attempt to make more than 100 accounts and if they do than more than likley they need to be flagged for spamming. If they are simply offering email accounts to a lot of people they will soon have a bandwidth limit issue.
You have an Unlimited size harddrive to hold all the data for these POP accounts? Even just the name and password for the account, its still data, still needs to go somewhere....
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10-08-2004, 07:18 PM #13Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by robdavy
So how come the board generally accepts that "Unlimited Email Accounts or Unlimited FTP Accounts" is ok?
Even then, having a large amount of email/ftp accounts is unlikely to cause a problem on a well configured system before the disk usage/transfer limits kick in.
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10-08-2004, 07:22 PM #14WHT Addict
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I understand what you are saying but i am fairly sure that not a single person has over 1000 email accounts and if they do they will most likley need a bandwidth upgrade to continue using these. I guess it is impossable with the space and all but it would take more than a few hundred thousand accounts to fill up a server. Each email account doesn't use up hardly any space themselves. Besides if you did that the email accounts count tward the space alloted for each account so eventually they would run out of space that they paid for so in reality you can offer unlimited in a sense that they can have as many as can possably fit in their alloted space.
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10-08-2004, 07:30 PM #15Web Hosting Guru
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I'd imagine actually the info with regards to that fact the POP account exists and what the password is, doesnt count towards users space, as its system info.
Anyway, I also agree with you in the sense that because basically no one is going to run into an issue with it, it's ok to advertise it
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10-08-2004, 07:37 PM #16WHT Addict
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Glad we came to an agreement robdavy. As for someone running into it I'm certain you could be worry free about this because they would eventually remove accounts once they realized it takes an absurd ammount of bandwidth to use any more than 10000 email accounts. If they had that many averaging 5 kb per message and each person received around 10 messages a day it would be 500000 KB bandwidth a day just for their email accounts. Another brick wall they could hit is that more than likely that many accounts is going to have at least a few with spam going from it so either way i believe it is ok to advertise and give it to them in to a certain extent
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10-08-2004, 07:42 PM #17Web Hosting Guru
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So with the same logic, I feel in the case of NetNation, it's ok for them to advertise Unlimited Bandwidth, as basically none of their users are going to use bandwidth to a point where it's a problem for NetNation.
It's not like they're some kid with a $50 dedicated server and 500gb bandwidth; they're a huge company who are going to have massive ammounts of bandwidth and resources on tap
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10-08-2004, 07:48 PM #18WHT Addict
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Well....with the same logic i think it is not the same because with unlimited bandwidth you could run a game site with 10000000 downloads a day and that is going to drain the servers and make them go really slow..
But im sure they can offer it to an extent to where it wont be any problem to themwww.netwavehosting.com - Cheap + Reliable
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10-08-2004, 08:07 PM #19WHT Addict
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I just wish some of these unlimited companies showed us where they get there unlimited server service from. I've got ot get me an unlimited server someday..hehe
Matthew C. Williams
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10-08-2004, 09:52 PM #20Mr. Awesome
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Having "realistic" pricing, lots of resources, and being a giant public company does not give an excuse for false advertising.
Simple as that.
It would take all the resources in the the world, and they STILL wouldn't have enough to truly have "unlimited" bandwidth.
But that is just theoretical. the fact is that in their TOS, they stipulate that if you use more then a certain threshold of resources (bandwidth), then they will request you to upgrade or cancel your account.
Now that is the definitiion of deceitful and dishonest business practice.
The fact that any company "could" offer unlimited isn't the issue. The fact that they advertise it and then position themselves to not truly allow it is dishonest.
... and yes, I do know of one customer who just recently arrives at our doorstep who was affected about this very issue. He had an account that got shut down for excessive bandwidth usage. (Downloading of flash movies he makes.)
He saw the page on our site about "unlimited bandwidth is a scam" and emailed us to thank us for the explaination.
So.... I maintain that any company who advertises unlimited bandwidth is nothing more then dishonest, unethical, and guilty of false advertising.
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10-08-2004, 11:16 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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I would trust netnation , they have been around forever , in fact they are owned by an even larger company. I would seriously doubt they would not give you what you pay for , as long as you read their terms of service and you use the service for something that meets those guidelines.
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10-08-2004, 11:20 PM #22Retired Moderator
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They have the advantage of being big, most users use low bandwidth and few uses high, so it kind of balance out. I think something like ******, they have a huge customer base. The small users balance out the large.
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10-08-2004, 11:38 PM #23Mr. Awesome
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Originally posted by HiVelocity
I would trust netnation , they have been around forever , in fact they are owned by an even larger company.
Originally posted by HiVelocity
I would seriously doubt they would not give you what you pay for , as long as you read their terms of service and you use the service for something that meets those guidelines.
It's false (at best, misleading) advertising.We are eNom PLATINUM PLUS resellers!
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10-08-2004, 11:57 PM #24Web Hosting Master
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This is what makes it all false (from their contract): " Any abuse of Company Services is a breach of the TOU ('Customer's Abuse'). Determination of what constitutes Customer's Abuse will be at the sole discretion of the Company. Customer's Abuse includes ...consuming excessive amounts of memory, CPU and/or bandwidth"
Since they do not define what "excessive" means and say "Determination of what constitutes Customer's Abuse will be at the sole discretion of the Company", their unlimited claims mean absolutely nothing.
I could make the same claim, and say "well the average website only gets 1000 hits a month so your usage is 'excessive'", or "the 200k graphic on your main page is 'excessive'".
If they are so big and respectable, let them have the balls to say "unlimited" and mean it. Anything less is deceptive and misleading.
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10-09-2004, 12:01 AM #25Retired Moderator
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I would seriously doubt they would not give you what you pay for
This is shared hosting. At most I would get a whole server for my own use and - most definitely - a server can handle only a certain limited amount of data transfer per month. However, I will not be allowed to use a whole server because they have a resources abuse clause.
Perhaps Umbillycord was right and the future really is this unlimited bandwidth thing (most likely repackaged as "unmetered").