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09-30-2004, 05:48 PM #76Registered User
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I have not read the new license (in fact I stpped using IBF for about year, mainly because they were headed the paid road).
However, providing security fixes, features etc. was not against the license..The only time it would be against the license if you let people download ENTIRE files with the changes already made.0
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09-30-2004, 05:55 PM #77Junior Guru
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Originally posted by Pixehost
I do not distribute Warez. I distribute GPL products, which invision board is one. What's he gonna do, take me to court and expose his own theft?
I saw the code, I saw the post where Matt admitted he took the code, I know it's stolen. Unless Matt responds with some sort of rebuttal, it is open-source, therefore I could add my own code, remove the license agreement and distribute it.Linux System Admin & Support.
E-mail/MSN : carlgm@gmail.com0
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09-30-2004, 05:55 PM #78Newbie
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It seems you are correct - anyone can in theory produce instructions on how to modify IPB with security patches etc, presuming they aren't the same patches released by IPS of course.
My point about them being able to demand you remove all copies of the installation within 48 hours however still standsSignature edited. Please see Forum Guidelines for more information.0
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09-30-2004, 06:02 PM #79Newbie
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No you cannot. Re-read my post. Read the licence for IPB.
Hence Matt, why not grace us with a reply? Unless you can clarify the issue, can you blame people such as those in this thread thinking that IPB can now be classed as GPL? We're on a new page, so here's my question again.
"It appears that yet again you've admitted that you knowingly included GPL code in IPB - which makes the release need to be GPL does it not, by the terms of the same GPL?"
You may be interested in point 2 b of the GPL that you read when you took phpMyAdmin code and modified it for your own use:
"You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License."Signature edited. Please see Forum Guidelines for more information.0
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09-30-2004, 06:07 PM #80Newbie
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Matt's really paved the way to a serious lawsuit. It would be very easy for someone to prove that he has gone back on his contractual obligation and the facts are that the company has now taken steps to make evidence of that contract disappear.
He must not have proper legal council advising him - if he did there is no way that they would ever sanction these actions as they open the door to a lawsuit really wide. It's a real invitation.
There's just no way that it could be defended against as his own words form the contract, the fact that it was reinforced over the years only adds to the validity of it and the fact that he has taken steps to make all references of that contract disappear is clearly an indication of guilt.
When I look at the whole picture it seems to me that it would be a very easy case to bring to court and prove - with a very high chance of success and an even higher cost to Invision Power Board.
Amongst all the obvious mistakes made by IPB, it could also be argued that Matt's business model was designed to thwart competition by offering a free product to everyone. Once he had the market share he reniged on his contractual obligation and turned it into a pay per use service.
There's any number of ways that a lawyer could persue this one with the facts on his side. Matt's own words form the contract as he was operating as the CEO of the company when he repeatedly spoke them.
I think IPB has made a pretty serious error here. If someone does pursue legal action they would be in for it. They do not have the resources Microsoft does to tie something up in court forever and Microsoft was much better at skirting the fine line between legal and illegal then Invision Power Services has.
If Microsoft's CEO repeatedly said a product was free (in writing)and then changed it's tune they would be in really serious trouble.
It's a contractual obligation - the fact that IPB is taking steps to cover it up only proves a case against them.0
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09-30-2004, 06:10 PM #81Newbie
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The reason why Matt cannot answer the question of whether he stole code or not is the same reason he can't answer about his contractual obligations - his answer may prove to incriminate himself.
The only time people won't reply to serious questions or concerns is for the reason that they have something to hide. In and of itself it's an indication of guilt or wrongdoing at some level.0
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09-30-2004, 06:10 PM #82Web Hosting Master
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a166 is correct, if in fact he used GPL code in that project, that project must be made available under the terms of the GPL.
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09-30-2004, 06:38 PM #83Junior Guru
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- Is the developer of a GPL-covered program bound by the GPL? Could the developer's actions ever be a violation of the GPL?
Quick answer: No.
Strictly speaking, the GPL is a license from the developer for others to use, distribute and change the program. The developer itself is not bound by it, so no matter what the developer does, this is not a "violation" of the GPL.
However, if the developer does something that would violate the GPL if done by someone else, the developer will surely lose moral standing in the community. - I heard that someone got a copy of a GPL'ed program under another license. Is this possible?
Quick answer: Yes.
The GNU GPL does not give users permission to attach other licenses to the program. But the copyright holder for a program can release it under several different licenses in parallel. One of them may be the GNU GPL.
The license that comes in your copy, assuming it was put in by the copyright holder and that you got the copy legitimately, is the license that applies to your copy. - Moral: It may be GPL for you, but it may not be GPL for Matt.
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09-30-2004, 06:43 PM #84Newbie
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Plot Hole: Matt did not obtain a non-GPL license for the phpMyAdmin code. Any suggestion that he did is fundamentally ignorant of the development history of phpMyAdmin, and basic logic; if he had, he'd have been crowing about it like Richard Stallman after losing his virginity.
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09-30-2004, 06:51 PM #85New Member
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Originally posted by Charter
Is the developer of a GPL-covered program bound by the GPL? Could the developer's actions ever be a violation of the GPL?
Quick answer: No.
Originally posted by Charter
I heard that someone got a copy of a GPL'ed program under another license. Is this possible?
Quick answer: Yes.
What is being said, however, is that he has used GPL code - that is not his own - and he's admitted it. This voids his right to release IPB under a non-GPL license.Last edited by Draegonis; 09-30-2004 at 06:55 PM.
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09-30-2004, 07:11 PM #86Web Hosting Master
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From what I've been reading it looks like Mr Mecham will have to release it under gpl.
I dont see how he could ever get out of this whole.Haven't been on WHT for 6 years!0
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09-30-2004, 07:19 PM #87Web Hosting Master
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Does anybody know Matt's email address that goes directly to him?
Haven't been on WHT for 6 years!0
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09-30-2004, 07:26 PM #88Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by jasong
Does anybody know Matt's email address that goes directly to him?Protagonist WebHosting Services
Blog Hosting solutions:: Cpanel with Rvskin & Fantastico Deluxe
Providing Reliable Hosting since 20020
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09-30-2004, 07:34 PM #89Disabled
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Somebody show me the alleged code that he stole, as well as what GPL software he stole it from, and the line numbers where this code can be found.
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09-30-2004, 07:37 PM #90Web Hosting Master
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Ub3R, Click the Site Point link I posted. It shows the allege code stolen.
Matt's Email:
mattmecham@gmail.comKerry Jones0
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09-30-2004, 07:43 PM #91Newbie
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Link to Sitepoint thread again, which details the code:
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show....php?p=1423980
Comments in the actual source code of IPB:
//-----------------------------------------
// Get the mySQL version.
// Adapted from phpMyAdmin
//-----------------------------------------
The only accurate statement the topic makes is the use of one function and one incidental snipped of code from a GNU GPL project called "phpMyAdmin".Signature edited. Please see Forum Guidelines for more information.0
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09-30-2004, 07:51 PM #92Newbie
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Unfortunately it appears that the topic at sitepoint has now been removed from the public eye/deleted. Fearing this I have previously taken a screenshot showing the line in question from Matt (highlighted for your viewing pleasure):
http://debian-forums.org/ipb.png
The actual code references are now gone with the topic, I'm sure Pit will provide them again when available however.
Unfortunately I'm new to sitepoint and don't know who to contact regarding why the topic was closed/moved - presumably IPS requested this as I don't see why else they would remove it. If anyone here is active there I'd appreciate an enquiry as to why it was moved.
As a note to the moderators here I hope if they are contacted by IPS to remove this thread they act sensibly.Signature edited. Please see Forum Guidelines for more information.0
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09-30-2004, 07:53 PM #93New Member
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The plot thickens. Sitepoint have not only locked the topic without reason, but they appear to have now removed it completely.
Edit: Beaten to it by a better man.0
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09-30-2004, 07:57 PM #94Web Hosting Evangelist
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This doesn't matter to me.... heh, I'm a phpBB user. Much better than the IPB s**t anyways.
Mark Lu
excelblue@gmail.com0
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09-30-2004, 08:00 PM #95Web Hosting Master
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Here is Matt's email if anybody wants to ask him the famous question.
mattmecham@gmail.com
Question:
It appears that yet again you've admitted that you knowingly included GPL code in IPB - which makes the release need to be GPL does it not, by the terms of the same GPL?
You may be interested in point 2 b of the GPL that you read when you took phpMyAdmin code and modified it for your own use:
"You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License."Haven't been on WHT for 6 years!0
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09-30-2004, 08:01 PM #96New Member
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Originally posted by excelblue
This doesn't matter to me.... heh, I'm a phpBB user. Much better than the IPB s**t anyways.0
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09-30-2004, 08:04 PM #97Disabled
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Code:-bash-2.05b$ grep "Adapted" * -bash-2.05b$ grep "Adapted" */* admin/admin_functions.php: // Adapted from phpMyAdmin admin/ad_mysql.php: // Adapted from phpMyAdmin -bash-2.05b$ pwd /home/aforum/www/ipb/sources
ad_mysql.php code:
Code://----------------------------------------- // Get the mySQL version. // Adapted from phpMyAdmin //----------------------------------------- $DB->query("SELECT VERSION() AS version"); if ( ! $row = $DB->fetch_row() ) { $DB->query("SHOW VARIABLES LIKE 'version'"); $row = $DB->fetch_row(); } $this->true_version = $row['version']; $no_array = explode( '.', preg_replace( "/^(.+?)[-_]?/", "\\1", $row['version']) ); $one = (!isset($no_array) || !isset($no_array[0])) ? 3 : $no_array[0]; $two = (!isset($no_array[1])) ? 21 : $no_array[1]; $three = (!isset($no_array[2])) ? 0 : $no_array[2]; $this->mysql_version = (int)sprintf('%d%02d%02d', $one, $two, intval($three)); switch($ibforums->input['code']) { case 'dotool': $this->run_tool(); break; case 'runtime': $this->view_sql("SHOW STATUS"); break; case 'system': $this->view_sql("SHOW VARIABLES"); break; case 'processes': $this->view_sql("SHOW PROCESSLIST"); break; case 'runsql': $q = $HTTP_POST_VARS['query'] == "" ? urldecode($HTTP_GET_VARS['query']) : $HTTP_POST_VARS['query']; $this->view_sql(trim(stripslashes($q))); break; case 'backup': $this->show_backup_form(); break; case 'safebackup': $this->sbup_splash(); break; case 'dosafebackup': $this->do_safe_backup(); break; case 'export_tbl': $this->do_safe_backup(trim(urldecode(stripslashes($HTTP_GET_VARS['tbl'])))); break; //----------------------------------------- default: $this->list_index(); break; } }
Code://----------------------------------------- // Get mysql version //----------------------------------------- function get_mysql_version() { global $ibforums, $DB, $std; //----------------------------------------- // Get the mySQL version. // Adapted from phpMyAdmin //----------------------------------------- $DB->sql_get_version(); $ibforums->true_version = $DB->true_version; $ibforums->mysql_version = $DB->mysql_version; }
Code:| | > Admin functions library | > Script written by Matt Mecham | > Date started: 1st march 2002 | | > DBA Checked: Tue 25th May 2004 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Code:| | > mySQL Admin Stuff | > Module written by Matt Mecham | > Date started: 21st October 2002 | | > Module Version Number: 1.0.0 | > Music listen to when coding this: Martin Grech - Open Heart Zoo | > Talk about useless information!
well that's interesting.0
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09-30-2004, 09:56 PM #98Junior Guru
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That's it? Under a hundred lines of basic code is in question? These snippets don't even constitute a program for either party. Oh wait, use an if or switch statement, you're violating some GPL software somewhere. Release your code now!
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09-30-2004, 09:58 PM #99Web Hosting Master
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If you have a bag of rice and someone steals a tiny amount of rice no matter what you do thats still stealing.
Kerry Jones0
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09-30-2004, 10:16 PM #100Web Hosting Master
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Way to put it into caveman terms!
Haven't been on WHT for 6 years!0