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09-30-2004, 11:07 AM #26Junior Guru Wannabe
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Wow, some people really need to take a breath or something.
Business changes, and you have to keep food on the table. I think that the underlying issue is that soooo many of the IPB users are 14 year olds who dont have a job and had no intention of ever licensing the software. It simply doesnt make any sense to put hundreds of man hours into project after project and then give it away.
Anyone who didn't see this coming simply hasn't been paying attention.
While I deffinitely wouldnt have proceeded as IPS did in this change (I would have simply left 1.3.1 as the free trial and moved 2.0 to be licensed only), I don't know that you can really fault them for the change. You have to make money to stay in business afterall. People and businesses have expenses to pay, and coding software out of the goodness of your heart doesnt pay your rent.
I'd like to point out that I am in no way affiliated with IPS other then as a customer. Some of us (customers) have spoken with the IPS team in the customer forums regarding some additional changes to policy that took effect this week and were able to reach a suitable compromise. It's really all in how you approach it.
It's not like IPB is some half assed forum script that isn't worth purchasing. I think a majority of this could be attributed to growing pains as IPS moves itself into the role of a real business that is trying to make money. I think it will smooth out shortly.
*crosses fingers*0
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09-30-2004, 11:15 AM #27Temporarily Suspended
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I think you guys also forget something else, ITS HIS SOFTWARE, if he wants to charge for it he can do what he wants.
I'd still pay for it.0
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09-30-2004, 12:00 PM #28Web Hosting Master
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The problem is guys.... is that hes a flat out liar as seen with his cache verison on google. He has always said it will be free... its certaintly now anymore. He decieved us to make his forum software popular. I can certainly tell you this I would of kept the current verisons I released free and would of made the final verison of the beta requiring a license. I wouldn't of cut everybody off like this who needs a forum and has little or no money to buy a license.
The reason why IPB has been so sucessful it is one of the best forums around on the net is because he claimed that there would always be a free verison.
He responded to my PM...
That's your prerogative. original.gif
Good luck and all the best,
MattMy First Reply
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...97#post2517997
I can't believe you lied. I'm sorry but i'll be switching to PHPBB.Last edited by Kerry Jones; 09-30-2004 at 12:12 PM.
Kerry Jones0
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09-30-2004, 12:17 PM #29Reliable Web Host
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am I the only one who gets sql errors when going to the support forum at invision?
█ Bayouspace Hosting
█ Reliable, Full Featured cPanel Shared Hosting, with REAL 24/7 SUPPORT
█ Established 11/2009, WHT member since 2003
█ http://www.bayouspace.com0
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09-30-2004, 12:26 PM #30Junior Guru Wannabe
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Works fine here...
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09-30-2004, 01:04 PM #31Web Hosting Master
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Business changes, and you have to keep food on the table. I think that the underlying issue is that soooo many of the IPB users are 14 year olds who dont have a job and had no intention of ever licensing the software. It simply doesnt make any sense to put hundreds of man hours into project after project and then give it away.
This is the quote that makes me angry about matt's decision.
"Yes, we're pushing our paid services harder, but we're still offering a free product that is fully functional. This has always been our vision and it's not going to change. "They" said 1.1 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" said 1.2 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" said 1.3 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" say 2.0 won't be free - and it will be." -Matt MechamKerry Jones0
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09-30-2004, 01:07 PM #32Temporarily Suspended
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Originally posted by Kerry Jones
Actually, I was going to buy a invision board license when I get the money. I'm currently unemployed which makes it difficult. Its that he decieved us all into thinking that there would always be a free verison is what pisses me off. This is why i'm not going to be purchasing a license. I really would have because I was interested in the gallery/submission script IPB has built into it.
He can charge for his software if he wants to, maybe he wanted to keep it free but found with the time that he was putting into it that it simply was not possible to do so.
If your not happy with it, switch to phpBB.0
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09-30-2004, 01:18 PM #33Web Hosting Evangelist
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Actually 2.0 Final was released to the public before it was taken down.
And It has been stated that those who are running it before the license change may continue to do so. They just will not receive updates.
As for fantastico, it still runs 1.3, therefore no issue with it. (as far as I know)0
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09-30-2004, 01:19 PM #34Web Hosting Master
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He didn't decieve anybody, plans simply changed things like that happen. I don't see why certain people around here need to whine like a bunch of 3 year olds when things don't go there way.
Besides if I had confidence in my software I would still allow 1.1 - 1.3 still be free and if they wanted to upgrade to 2.0 they would have to purchase a license.Kerry Jones0
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09-30-2004, 01:21 PM #35Temporarily Suspended
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I still believe in his software, it's just the fact that everyone nowadays wants everything for free, and some people are too cheap to pay for quality software.
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09-30-2004, 01:24 PM #36Nothing to see move along.
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cant say i blame him why have millions of people using his product for free when he can charge for it? i know he does already but i would bet there are people out there that would pay who dont now due to the free product available...
And at the end of the day it is ]HIS product and he can do whatever he see's fit with it............0
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09-30-2004, 01:26 PM #37Web Hosting Master
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I still believe in his software, it's just the fact that everyone nowadays wants everything for free, and some people are too cheap to pay for quality software.
I already have friends who have begun the switch.Kerry Jones0
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09-30-2004, 01:27 PM #38Web Hosting Master
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Regarding the comment Mr. Mecham made that Kerry posted, I would call that deception. This kind of stuff is why I pay attention to the licenses that software is released under. I know I'm not going to have to pay for the next release of Debian.
I myself have given hundreds of hours of my work to multiple GPL'd projects. I use Debian Linux, Apache, and PostgreSQL, I don't mind giving away some codebase that can benefit the general community. Custom development and individual support is another story.
I don't mind paying for something that is unique and useful to me, but some of these licenses make me laugh. I also would never use some of these scripts, a la vBulletin, because I've read dozens of stories about them harassing licensed users in many ways.0
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09-30-2004, 01:29 PM #39Web Hosting Master
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I read the first page, however could not really be bothered to read the second.
Firstly, let me say I told you so!
Now, after gloating.
You should not really worry. IPB was not that good compared to the competition. There is always phpBB, and with 2.2 coming out soon it's worth a look and then there is wBB Lite which is just as good as vB with loads of features just like vB and is free. As some may know wBB used to be free, then when they moved to wBB 2 they started charging however wBB 1 / Lite is still free, and hopefully will be always.
wBB is the largest board in Germany, and is much larger than vB in Germany. Apparently even companies such as BMW use wBB.
But do not be down hearted by the changes in IPB, just rejoice as now you can use decent software.
http://www.phpbb.com/
http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB22/
http://www.woltlab.com/
I personally prefer phpBB looks wise, however wBB feature wise. I have both. I used to have a vB license, and can say I prefer wBB to vB. Just me though.0
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09-30-2004, 01:29 PM #40Newbie
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There's no doubt about - he deceived everyone right from day one. My take on it is that his entire business model way a lie right from the start.
When he got what he needed from us he then switched everything over to a completely paid service. Granted, he and the company needs to make money but then he should not have said from the outset that there is always going to be a free version. It's not like he said it once - he always re-enforced that statement.
That's why they had to remove all the posts from the forum. If they didn't everyone would see the proof of the continuall pattern of lying.
I think the thing that has angered more people is not that the free version is gone - it's the way that the company has very quickly morphed into a Microsoft.
They did that by basically booting everyone out of their program. As such, we were used as beta testers so that he could refine his product to the point where he could force it to be fee based. He rallied everyone around him, encouraged people to make add-on's forhis prorgram and then when he was done with that he got rid of all the people that helped him make the program a success in the first place.
Thanks Invision Board - it's been nice being discarded by you when my usefullness was over. It speaks volumes about Matt Meechams character and what his real intent was right from the start.
All those people that think we are whining are obviously not people that were involved with using and testing IPB from the start. If they were they would understand what we are talking about.0
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09-30-2004, 01:34 PM #41Newbie
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Originally posted by Andrax
Wow, some people really need to take a breath or something.
Business changes, and you have to keep food on the table. I think that the underlying issue is that soooo many of the IPB users are 14 year olds who dont have a job and had no intention of ever licensing the software. It simply doesnt make any sense to put hundreds of man hours into project after project and then give it away.
Anyone who didn't see this coming simply hasn't been paying attention.
While I deffinitely wouldnt have proceeded as IPS did in this change (I would have simply left 1.3.1 as the free trial and moved 2.0 to be licensed only), I don't know that you can really fault them for the change. You have to make money to stay in business afterall. People and businesses have expenses to pay, and coding software out of the goodness of your heart doesnt pay your rent.
I'd like to point out that I am in no way affiliated with IPS other then as a customer. Some of us (customers) have spoken with the IPS team in the customer forums regarding some additional changes to policy that took effect this week and were able to reach a suitable compromise. It's really all in how you approach it.
It's not like IPB is some half assed forum script that isn't worth purchasing. I think a majority of this could be attributed to growing pains as IPS moves itself into the role of a real business that is trying to make money. I think it will smooth out shortly.
*crosses fingers*
Andrax - you hit the nail on the head - the majority of people complaining are people that would have never paid for the license in the first place. They would have used the trial indefinately, which is against the license they agreed to *when* they downloaded the software.
I've used IPB since the first realease - because it was free and because it was the *best* free board. When the license changed with version 1.3.1 to a free trial it was obvious that they would start charging for the product at some point in the future - actually they were already charging for it since a trial means payment for permanent use. That's why I didn't upgrade my board to 2.0 until I decided if I wanted to stick with them or move to something else - I still haven't made that decision.
There's no reason that anyone should be shocked that this happened or think that it happend overnight. Especially if you were running 1.3.1 or upgraded your board to 2.0 - the writting was on the wall and in the license.
Could the situation have been handled better? Yes.
Do I feel lied to? No.
I consider being lied to if someone purposly decieves me knowing that what he/she is saying is not true. That quote that everyone loves to quote and feel betrayed/decieved by was written on November 27, 2003. I believe that Matt honestly believed what he wrote when he wrote it. But guess what? - Things change over the course of almost a year - Business is constantly changing.
If you consider that quote a lie, which is your right, don't bother voting - you'll just end up with an empty ballot.
There are many people that used it for free and counldn't afford a license. And then there's people that could afford a license and choose to use IPB because it was free. Or, they thought it was the best forum software, but still didn't purchase a license because they didn't have to at the time.
If this situation has caused such a trauma in your life - prepare for a rough life.0
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09-30-2004, 01:34 PM #42Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by mmiller
There's no doubt about - he deceived everyone right from day one. My take on it is that his entire business model way a lie right from the start.
When he got what he needed from us he then switched everything over to a completely paid service. Granted, he and the company needs to make money but then he should not have said from the outset that there is always going to be a free version. It's not like he said it once - he always re-enforced that statement.
That's why they had to remove all the posts from the forum. If they didn't everyone would see the proof of the continuall pattern of lying.
I think the thing that has angered more people is not that the free version is gone - it's the way that the company has very quickly morphed into a Microsoft.
They did that by basically booting everyone out of their program. As such, we were used as beta testers so that he could refine his product to the point where he could force it to be fee based. He rallied everyone around him, encouraged people to make add-on's forhis prorgram and then when he was done with that he got rid of all the people that helped him make the program a success in the first place.
Thanks Invision Board - it's been nice being discarded by you when my usefullness was over. It speaks volumes about Matt Meechams character and what his real intent was right from the start.
All those people that think we are whining are obviously not people that were involved with using and testing IPB from the start. If they were they would understand what we are talking about.
Did you submit bug reports and suggestions a lot, etc?
How long did you use it?
If you put so much of your own time and effort into it, then why did you never pay for it, showing your gratitude? (if you didn't ever buy a license...)0
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09-30-2004, 01:41 PM #43Web Hosting Master
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I promoted Invision Board because it was a good software to use. I was even proud that John Kerry's forums was using the software that I made a post about it on the forums. When I did find a job I submitted it. In the 2.0 verison the site was somehow switching to the lite verison which made the entire site white. I'm not sure what caused it or if they looked into it. I use IPB on most of my boards. I was going to use it for the network i'm starting. Now i'll have to look for an alt.
Kerry Jones0
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09-30-2004, 01:42 PM #44Web Hosting Master
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Are you kidding me? He's saying the community is what really made the board, as is always the case with a free product. They contribute everything from code,graphics,websites based on the software and it's use, add-ons, suggestions, bug reports, etc.
That is what gave the software much of it's value.0
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09-30-2004, 01:45 PM #45Web Hosting Guru
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Originally posted by Anjay
I read the first page, however could not really be bothered to read the second.
Firstly, let me say I told you so!
Now, after gloating.
You should not really worry. IPB was not that good compared to the competition. There is always phpBB, and with 2.2 coming out soon it's worth a look and then there is wBB Lite which is just as good as vB with loads of features just like vB and is free. As some may know wBB used to be free, then when they moved to wBB 2 they started charging however wBB 1 / Lite is still free, and hopefully will be always.
wBB is the largest board in Germany, and is much larger than vB in Germany. Apparently even companies such as BMW use wBB.
But do not be down hearted by the changes in IPB, just rejoice as now you can use decent software.
http://www.phpbb.com/
http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB22/
http://www.woltlab.com/
I personally prefer phpBB looks wise, however wBB feature wise. I have both. I used to have a vB license, and can say I prefer wBB to vB. Just me though.
Who cares if its paid, its worth the money. I honestly don't care that he broke a promise either. Big deal...0
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09-30-2004, 01:54 PM #46Junior Guru Wannabe
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CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Goddam THIEF!
You want my opinion? Well here it is: IPS is a corrupt company and not to be trusted.
Now, if you want to be lazy and skip the article, here's the summary:
- Allegations were made that Matt Macham of ISP stole sections of code to use in his Invision Power board software.
- Matt denys it.
- Comparisons of code were displayed.
- In Matt's defence he states that the code was merely borrowed; that he credited the writers. (He also requested that they edit the article in his favor)
- A member cited that since the code falls under the GPU, then IPB must remain free.
- No response from Matt.
If you were to even INQUIRE if this was true on the IPS Homepage, they would delete the article and ban you- that's how under fire they are. I challenge you to post there. Ask why he publisized that IPB would remain free and wen't back on it. Your post would't last more than 30 seconds.
Keep in mind, I'm not digging these links up from the past: They are only hours old.
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198497Click Writes Good Articles!0
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09-30-2004, 01:58 PM #47Web Hosting Guru
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Re: CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Goddam THIEF!
Originally posted by Click
You want my opinion?0
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09-30-2004, 02:02 PM #48Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally posted by mmiller
Sure enough - within 5 minutes of posting that they deleted it. I suspect that they will have people watching 24x7 for the next while to remove any posts from people who disagree with them.
What I really find funny is how they deleted all posts in the forums. This way there is no record of Matt and co ever saying that IPB is always going to be free.
How kind of them. Isn't this the kind of thing that usually causes class action lawsuits?
How long do you think it will be before Matt contacts Google and asks them to remove all records of it from their cache?
If I was to call out Webhostingtalk, or apple.com, they would take it. If he didn't have something to hide, then why would he delete the posts?
Guilty As Sin!Click Writes Good Articles!0
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09-30-2004, 02:03 PM #49Retired ***ulator
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Merged both Invision threads...
73's, Kim
Everything happens for a reason I make up.0
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09-30-2004, 02:04 PM #50Web Hosting Evangelist
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Originally posted by Click
Isn't that the ******* truth?
If I was to call out Webhostingtalk, or apple.com, they would take it. If he didn't have something to hide, then why would he delete the posts?
Guilty As Sin!0