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  1. #1
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    * CEO Invision Power Board, Matt Mecham Is a Goddam Liar!

    IPB is off the shelf:

    As many of you might already know, Invision Power board is no longer free.
    As of Sep 27 2004, Matt Mecham removed the trial downloads from the IPS homepage without notice. Full Article Here.

    But this one's going to hit him like a ton of bricks:

    "Yes, we're pushing our paid services harder, but we're still offering a free product that is fully functional. This has always been our vision and it's not going to change. "They" said 1.1 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" said 1.2 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" said 1.3 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" say 2.0 won't be free - and it will be." -Matt Mecham
    Click Writes Good Articles!
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  2. #2
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    PWND by the Google cache!
    Click Writes Good Articles!
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  3. #3
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    So , who uses IPB anyway. Switch to phpBB much better, at least for free.
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  4. #4
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    Screw them all...


    I'VE GOT MY LIVEJOURNAL!!!11
    Click Writes Good Articles!
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  5. #5
    Ouch. I know the forum I sold few months back was on IPB. Another reason why the decision to sell was well made
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  6. #6
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    omg... stop the presses, we might actually be required to pay for quality software. those evil bastards, damn them to hell.

    [edit] developers have to eat too.
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  7. #7
    Originally posted by RADiSTAR
    So , who uses IPB anyway. Switch to phpBB much better, at least for free.
    You have GOT to be on drugs. Free yes, better, not by a long shot.
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  8. #8
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    I don't do drugs but maybe you like BS.
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  9. #9
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    OMFG STEAM
    ROXORZ TEH BIG
    one111!

    Sorry, I just had the inexplicable urge to say that.

    - Little Billy

    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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  10. #10
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    I'm shocked as Matt Mecham has always said there would be a free unlimited trial verison of Invision Board. It looks like i'll be switching back to phpBB since its no longer free. I'm not a rich person and can't afford a license all the time. When I do get the money for a license it won't be going to Invision Board since he lied to us. It will be going to VBulletin Board. I'll send him a PM to see if maybe he will respond to this thread.

    I can't believe he lied to us all. He seems like the real flip flopper not John Kerry.

    Last edited by Kerry Jones; 09-30-2004 at 03:09 AM.
    Kerry Jones
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  11. #11
    This is how I feel and what I posted on their site...

    "You know, over the last last two years I sure have seen changes to Invision Board.

    I never spent a lot of time changing the forums around much so I have always been dropping in once every few months for the past several years. Because of that it's been really easy to see the shades of Microsoft looming in the way Invision Power Board has been heading.

    It's readily apparent that Invision Power Board was given away for free to get market share and once that was we saw the introduction of 'modular' software just like Microsoft.

    Even though IPB was clearly always going to be free (directly from Matt's mouth over and over) it now appears that there are no free versions anymore.

    To make matters more interesting it seems that now I can only post in one are of the entire site. Everything else is blocked out. Try as I might, I can't seem to find the hacks site that used to be there for downloading. Is that gone too?

    Wow! Invision Board sure has changed. I never had a problem with add-on modules that cost money because I thought that was only right. It seemed that the direction of the company was to give out the core program for free and then charge for the rest. Matt always said it the forum would be free.

    Then the support changed. Then the restrictions on the forums account showed up. It goes on and on. IPB has morphed right into a Microsoft Clone. I mean, they really went all the way now. Nothing is free, no support is free, they are removing all posts that might have anything to do with things being free and removing the sites that have hacks. So even that is gone and certainly not free.

    It's amazing how we were all used by Invision Power Board. Once we outlived our usefulness we got ostrasized by the Microsoft approach. I feel like a real Pariah now - even though I based my decision on Matt saying over and over that the base forum would always be free. He said it - I foolishly believed it.

    I wonder how long it will be before people who paid for a lifetime license and free upgrades find out that even that has been taken away from them? Am I the only one who feels that IPB's whole persona has changed and that they just used us all to gain market share? I mean I can see their point - out of all the people who use their forums I'm sure a small percentage have paid for it - but the changes I've seen are pretty drastic and really seem outright nasty.

    They went from a company that cared to a company that tried to make money in a nice way to a company that is out to scalp everyone - now that they have some market share and after we all promoted their products!

    I guess I'm just glad that I have the 1.31 final on my hard drive. But I really wonder how long it will be before Invision Power Board adopts the policy of not updating their software but instead requiring users to pay for upgrades?

    That's the only step left that I can see them taking in an effort to make even more money. There's nothing like locking people into your software by giving it away and once you have them refusing to release fixes and forcing them into upgrades for a fee.

    Once that's done Invision Power Board's adoption of Microsoft's business model will be complete. Think that's funny? I've been in this industry long enough to see almost everyone do it. IPB has not invented anything new at all - they just copied the way Microsoft started and modeled their entire company on that procedure.

    I wonder if they are going to censor this post? Do you think it might be hitting too close to the mark or have you guys all been asleep at the switch and not noticed what's been happening over the last year or so?

    Microsoft got market share by very nearly giving away their operating system. They gave it away so cheap that no-one could compete and then it became the defacto installed operating system. Sound familiar?

    After that Microsoft got 'modualized'. The Office programs started showing up. Sound familiar? Along the way the prices slowly increased. Once the vast majority of the people in the world were using Microsoft Operating System then the whole process changed. Now we have "End of Life Products". As such we get forced into paying for upgrades.

    Just wait and see - there's really very little left for Invision Power Board to do to become a complete Microsoft clone. My only hope is that they adopted this model before they had the necessary market share to support it. If that proves to be the case then the whole thing will backfire and they will never keep the market share they require to support their model.

    Microsoft themselves waited quite a while before fully adopting this approach. For good reason. I hope IPB misjudged it and that their 'new' business model (Microsoft's) will fail.

    Oh, there is one more thing that Matt can do to become an exact clone. He can add date bomb code to the installed boards so that they stop working when their license has expired. That way you can be sure you have a recurring revenue stream - just like Microsoft!"
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  12. #12
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    I can tell you this i've been in the process of getting some coders for a custom bulletin board for my website. I just may distribute it free of charge and work up to a verison people will like.

    If I can't gather the coders i'll probably buy VBulletin when I have the money as I do not support liars.
    Kerry Jones
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  13. #13
    Sure enough - within 5 minutes of posting that they deleted it. I suspect that they will have people watching 24x7 for the next while to remove any posts from people who disagree with them.

    What I really find funny is how they deleted all posts in the forums. This way there is no record of Matt and co ever saying that IPB is always going to be free.

    How kind of them. Isn't this the kind of thing that usually causes class action lawsuits?

    How long do you think it will be before Matt contacts Google and asks them to remove all records of it from their cache?
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  14. #14
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    Well of course they're going to delete it, it trashes their own forum.
    $this->hasFlavr() ? $nom->nom('nom') : $want->doNot()
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  15. #15
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    Matt has read my Private Message.... no reply or a reply within this thread. I went ahead and used the message tracker to know for sure.
    Kerry Jones
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  16. #16
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    Interesting what I found....

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198497

    Could this be true as well?
    Kerry Jones
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  17. #17
    Originally posted by mmiller
    Sure enough - within 5 minutes of posting that they deleted it. I suspect that they will have people watching 24x7 for the next while to remove any posts from people who disagree with them.

    What I really find funny is how they deleted all posts in the forums. This way there is no record of Matt and co ever saying that IPB is always going to be free.

    How kind of them. Isn't this the kind of thing that usually causes class action lawsuits?

    Maybe they removed it to protect themselves from being quoted and sued.

    Calling Matt a liar is not quite accurate. Invision is a totally different product, however it was culled from previous brands like Ikonboard, IBforums, Invision Boards etc. So technically, he's not lying . I saw the evolution of his script from day 1 in the year 2000. My community tested his scripts for the past 4 years and although we bought the yearly license, the community feels betrayed that there is no longer a free version. A lot of my customers who are also my community members use Invision for their personal sites and they are not happy with this new focus. IPS only seem to care about their existing customers . They seem to alienate the freeloaders simply because they can't afford to pay the license for now. I am sure these customers will pay once they have saved up. The 15 day trial is not even a solution. It's too short a time to save up. They have another solution to use their hosting plan where the license is free for the duration of the license. Again,their hosting plan is not affordable $14.95 per month is their lowest plan.

    It really shows that IPS will only cater to companies who can afford these solutions.

    I was told that if they can't afford the Invision license to just get a free forum script. Is that the way to treat a potential customer? They should have retained their old versions or produced a lighter version just to maintain the goodwill of potential customers and the whole internet community.
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by RADiSTAR
    I don't do drugs but maybe you like BS.
    Not BS, I've used all of the three main ones and I still think vbulletin is the best.
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  19. #19
    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    Interesting what I found....

    h ttp://w ww.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198497

    Could this be true as well?
    By Mecham's own admission in that thread, it is. However, as he has demonstrated in all other areas of his business, he just does whatever he likes with the assumption that no-one will do anything about it.
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  20. #20
    Ask, and you shall recieve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt from Invision Power Board
    Yes, I stole my own Ikonboard code. Guilty.

    Yes, I used a few functions from the PHP.net manual's user submitted notes which by their nature are in the public domain. vB and phpBB both did too. Guilty.

    Stealing other's code wholesale. Not guilty.

    Pit is a moron.

    Thanks for the free publicity though - keep it coming. Oh, and don't forget to run back to WHT and quote this post.

    Here, I'll give you a hand: ht tp://w ww.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.p...threadid=326813
    Last edited by Matt; 09-30-2004 at 02:52 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Why do people keep comparing them to microsoft??? That is a compliment in their eyes. Microsoft made billions, and by you saying they are modeling their company after them, it gives them a boost of confidence.

    Matt is not the only one in control of IPS, his partners over ruled him, and took away the free version. I'm sure he feels like a pitiful little girl for losing control of his own company, which he should.

    Is it just me, or did the Invision support forum go down?
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  22. #22
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    So does this mean that existing IPB users will have to pay if they want to use the same version without upgrading?
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  23. #23
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    You gave your word you would pay for a lisence if you liked the software....

    He gave his word there would always be a free version....

    Do what you think is right, lol.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo[HD]
    So does this mean that existing IPB users will have to pay if they want to use the same version without upgrading?
    Presumably, looking at their license agreement, if you are an existing user of IPB you now need to pay for a license, or of course convert. Bold added by me:
    MISCELLANEOUS
    IPS reserves the right to publish a selected list of users of the
    Software. IPS reserves the right to change the terms of this
    Agreement at any time
    . Changes to the Agreement will be announced
    via email using the IPS email notification list. Failure to
    receive notification of a change does not make those changes
    invalid. A current copy of this Agreement will be available on the
    Invision Power Board web site.
    TERMINATION
    This Agreement will terminate automatically upon failure to comply
    with the limitations
    described herein or on written notice from an
    authorized representative of IPS. On termination, you must destroy
    all copies of the Software within 48 hours
    . Termination of the
    license due to noncompliance will not result in any refunds of
    license fees.

    Matt: As far as I'm aware there is one example where the code originates from the php manual, that doesn't cover the other examples. Also if phpBB take code from the manual, and modify it and release it under the GPL - and you then take this modified code (not the original code from the manual) and knowingly include said code in your product (as you seem to admit, you openly admit to having taken code from the GPL phpMyAdmin in your comments) - you are aware of what this does right? The GPL is often called 'viral' for a reason. From what I can see you've admitted to having GPL code in your product both in the comments of the source of IPB and in that thread, and are simply claiming that there are thousands of other lines that you wrote yourself and this somehow makes it OK - that doesn't matter, knowingly ditributing GPL code as part of your product makes the entire thing GPL. So I can start distributing IPB now as an open source project, or are you actually going to try responding to or at least denying the claims?

    It doesn't matter whether you stole 5 lines or 50,000 lines - if you knowingly distributed GPL code in your code, by the terms of the GPL, your code must be released under the same license.
    Signature edited. Please see Forum Guidelines for more information.
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  25. #25
    good point a166, It'd be interesting to see what happens if someone calls them on their BS.
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  26. #26
    Wow, some people really need to take a breath or something.

    Business changes, and you have to keep food on the table. I think that the underlying issue is that soooo many of the IPB users are 14 year olds who dont have a job and had no intention of ever licensing the software. It simply doesnt make any sense to put hundreds of man hours into project after project and then give it away.

    Anyone who didn't see this coming simply hasn't been paying attention.

    While I deffinitely wouldnt have proceeded as IPS did in this change (I would have simply left 1.3.1 as the free trial and moved 2.0 to be licensed only), I don't know that you can really fault them for the change. You have to make money to stay in business afterall. People and businesses have expenses to pay, and coding software out of the goodness of your heart doesnt pay your rent.

    I'd like to point out that I am in no way affiliated with IPS other then as a customer. Some of us (customers) have spoken with the IPS team in the customer forums regarding some additional changes to policy that took effect this week and were able to reach a suitable compromise. It's really all in how you approach it.

    It's not like IPB is some half assed forum script that isn't worth purchasing. I think a majority of this could be attributed to growing pains as IPS moves itself into the role of a real business that is trying to make money. I think it will smooth out shortly.

    *crosses fingers*
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  27. #27
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    I think you guys also forget something else, ITS HIS SOFTWARE, if he wants to charge for it he can do what he wants.

    I'd still pay for it.
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  28. #28
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    The problem is guys.... is that hes a flat out liar as seen with his cache verison on google. He has always said it will be free... its certaintly now anymore. He decieved us to make his forum software popular. I can certainly tell you this I would of kept the current verisons I released free and would of made the final verison of the beta requiring a license. I wouldn't of cut everybody off like this who needs a forum and has little or no money to buy a license.

    The reason why IPB has been so sucessful it is one of the best forums around on the net is because he claimed that there would always be a free verison.

    He responded to my PM...

    That's your prerogative. original.gif

    Good luck and all the best,

    Matt
    My First Reply

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...97#post2517997

    I can't believe you lied. I'm sorry but i'll be switching to PHPBB.
    What exactly does this mean for fantisco since IPB is no longer free?
    Last edited by Kerry Jones; 09-30-2004 at 12:12 PM.
    Kerry Jones
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  29. #29
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    am I the only one who gets sql errors when going to the support forum at invision?
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  30. #30
    Works fine here...
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  31. #31
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    Business changes, and you have to keep food on the table. I think that the underlying issue is that soooo many of the IPB users are 14 year olds who dont have a job and had no intention of ever licensing the software. It simply doesnt make any sense to put hundreds of man hours into project after project and then give it away.
    Actually, I was going to buy a invision board license when I get the money. I'm currently unemployed which makes it difficult. Its that he decieved us all into thinking that there would always be a free verison is what pisses me off. This is why i'm not going to be purchasing a license. I really would have because I was interested in the gallery/submission script IPB has built into it.

    This is the quote that makes me angry about matt's decision.

    "Yes, we're pushing our paid services harder, but we're still offering a free product that is fully functional. This has always been our vision and it's not going to change. "They" said 1.1 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" said 1.2 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" said 1.3 wouldn't be free, it was. "They" say 2.0 won't be free - and it will be." -Matt Mecham
    Kerry Jones
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  32. #32
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    Actually, I was going to buy a invision board license when I get the money. I'm currently unemployed which makes it difficult. Its that he decieved us all into thinking that there would always be a free verison is what pisses me off. This is why i'm not going to be purchasing a license. I really would have because I was interested in the gallery/submission script IPB has built into it.
    He didn't decieve anybody, plans simply changed things like that happen. I don't see why certain people around here need to whine like a bunch of 3 year olds when things don't go there way.


    He can charge for his software if he wants to, maybe he wanted to keep it free but found with the time that he was putting into it that it simply was not possible to do so.


    If your not happy with it, switch to phpBB.
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  33. #33
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    Actually 2.0 Final was released to the public before it was taken down.
    And It has been stated that those who are running it before the license change may continue to do so. They just will not receive updates.
    As for fantastico, it still runs 1.3, therefore no issue with it. (as far as I know)
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  34. #34
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    He didn't decieve anybody, plans simply changed things like that happen. I don't see why certain people around here need to whine like a bunch of 3 year olds when things don't go there way.
    You won't see me shedding a tear for the software. Its the fact that he misled people into believing in his software. I hope from this incidence that phpBB will recruit some better php programmers and design a piece of software that would trash matts software.

    Besides if I had confidence in my software I would still allow 1.1 - 1.3 still be free and if they wanted to upgrade to 2.0 they would have to purchase a license.
    Kerry Jones
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  35. #35
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    I still believe in his software, it's just the fact that everyone nowadays wants everything for free, and some people are too cheap to pay for quality software.
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  36. #36
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    cant say i blame him why have millions of people using his product for free when he can charge for it? i know he does already but i would bet there are people out there that would pay who dont now due to the free product available...


    And at the end of the day it is ]HIS product and he can do whatever he see's fit with it............
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  37. #37
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    I still believe in his software, it's just the fact that everyone nowadays wants everything for free, and some people are too cheap to pay for quality software.
    Isn't that the point of offering free software? I know several sucessful companies who offer a free verison and a paid verison of their software. Its just going to be like VBulletin and I have no doubt VBulletin will end up coming out on top.

    I already have friends who have begun the switch.
    Kerry Jones
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  38. #38
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    Regarding the comment Mr. Mecham made that Kerry posted, I would call that deception. This kind of stuff is why I pay attention to the licenses that software is released under. I know I'm not going to have to pay for the next release of Debian.

    I myself have given hundreds of hours of my work to multiple GPL'd projects. I use Debian Linux, Apache, and PostgreSQL, I don't mind giving away some codebase that can benefit the general community. Custom development and individual support is another story.

    I don't mind paying for something that is unique and useful to me, but some of these licenses make me laugh. I also would never use some of these scripts, a la vBulletin, because I've read dozens of stories about them harassing licensed users in many ways.
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  39. #39
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    I read the first page, however could not really be bothered to read the second.

    Firstly, let me say I told you so!

    Now, after gloating.

    You should not really worry. IPB was not that good compared to the competition. There is always phpBB, and with 2.2 coming out soon it's worth a look and then there is wBB Lite which is just as good as vB with loads of features just like vB and is free. As some may know wBB used to be free, then when they moved to wBB 2 they started charging however wBB 1 / Lite is still free, and hopefully will be always.

    wBB is the largest board in Germany, and is much larger than vB in Germany. Apparently even companies such as BMW use wBB.

    But do not be down hearted by the changes in IPB, just rejoice as now you can use decent software.

    http://www.phpbb.com/
    http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB22/
    http://www.woltlab.com/

    I personally prefer phpBB looks wise, however wBB feature wise. I have both. I used to have a vB license, and can say I prefer wBB to vB. Just me though.
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  40. #40
    There's no doubt about - he deceived everyone right from day one. My take on it is that his entire business model way a lie right from the start.

    When he got what he needed from us he then switched everything over to a completely paid service. Granted, he and the company needs to make money but then he should not have said from the outset that there is always going to be a free version. It's not like he said it once - he always re-enforced that statement.

    That's why they had to remove all the posts from the forum. If they didn't everyone would see the proof of the continuall pattern of lying.

    I think the thing that has angered more people is not that the free version is gone - it's the way that the company has very quickly morphed into a Microsoft.

    They did that by basically booting everyone out of their program. As such, we were used as beta testers so that he could refine his product to the point where he could force it to be fee based. He rallied everyone around him, encouraged people to make add-on's forhis prorgram and then when he was done with that he got rid of all the people that helped him make the program a success in the first place.

    Thanks Invision Board - it's been nice being discarded by you when my usefullness was over. It speaks volumes about Matt Meechams character and what his real intent was right from the start.

    All those people that think we are whining are obviously not people that were involved with using and testing IPB from the start. If they were they would understand what we are talking about.
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