Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Running a Web Hosting Business : Customer contracts

[khaled_helmy]

its only 10 days to start my company officially, and i'm a bit confused about the contract between me and the client and is it necessery to be a contract, and what forms should it contain ??

i think i need the fields that the contract should contain

thxx

[Corey Bryant]

For web hosting, design, or development? or are you talking about an AUP and TOS?

[khaled_helmy]

About the web hosting

[thomas.smith]

I think you don`t know what a contract is. A contract is not a piece of paper which is signed by two parties but when you buy a bubble gum that would be a contract already. Even if you watch your friend`s bike it is a contract. You don`t need a written contract or something. If someone orders something from you that is a contract even if he doesn`t sign anything etc.

[peersignal]

You'll need some sort of Terms of Service or Authorized Use Policy. BTW, the definition of contract:


1. An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law.

2. The writing or document containing such an agreement.


Thomas.Smith, I think you may be a bit confused as to what a contract is and isn't.

Regards,
Waylon

[thomas.smith]

Originally posted by Velostream
You'll need some sort of Terms of Service or Authorized Use Policy. BTW, the definition of contract:


1. An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law.

2. The writing or document containing such an agreement.


Thomas.Smith, I think you may be a bit confused as to what a contract is and isn't.

Regards,
Waylon

A contract is if at least two parties agree on a deal. For example if you agree to buy a bubble gum and the guy that sells it agrees to sell it that is a contract. A contract does not require to be in written form. I`ve been to lawschool for 2.5 years...I should know it... A contract does not require to be written you can ask any lawyer about it.

[thomas.smith]

A contract doesn`t even require two parties to promise anything. For example if you promise to watch your friend`s bike that is a contract even if you don`t get anything from your friend.

[Amdac]

Originally posted by thomas.smith
A contract doesn`t even require two parties to promise anything. For example if you promise to watch your friend`s bike that is a contract even if you don`t get anything from your friend.

The fact that you mention being in law school for years, then make reference to "watching your friend's bike" and "buying bubble gum", makes a me a little skeptical of your claims. A contract is an agreement between two parties, being in law school I'd assume you could come up with a better example.

A contract is generally on paper. You're referring to a verbal contract which does not apply to webhosting, nor does it hold up in court.

[thomas.smith]

Originally posted by Amdac
The fact that you mention being in law school for years, then make reference to "watching your friend's bike" and "buying bubble gum", makes a me a little skeptical of your claims. A contract is an agreement between two parties, being in law school I'd assume you could come up with a better example.

A contract is generally on paper. You're referring to a verbal contract which does not apply to webhosting, nor does it hold up in court.

Of course it does ! A gas station owner can sue you to pay him the 10 Cent you owe him for a bubble gum even if nothing has ever been written down about it because that IS a contract ! It really is possible to sue someone for the 10 cent he agreed to pay for a bubble gum. "Watching a friend's bike" cases is exactly the kind of stuff you learn at law school because these cases happen a lot in real life: You watch your friend's bike - it gets lost - now who pays it ? That happens every day. Of course you also learn other stuff like last time I had to write a 30 page essay on a case where someone sold a 5 million Dollar company. Out of 91 students I was within the best 5, by the way.

A hosting contract does NOT require to be written. Someone can order hosting with you over the phone etc. and then if he doesn`t pay you can sue him for that money because you have a contract with them even if nothing has ever been written down. Of course since you have your terms you will have a written contract in most cases but as a matter of fact there is no legal requirement to have a written contract in hosting and if you do a verbal contract about hosting it does hold up in court even if it is all about 1 Cent.

[Amdac]

You humor me. I just said a hosting contract isn't verbal yet in your reply you combined verbal contracts with written contracts. There is a difference. A verbal contract will not hold up in court since it's one person's word against another, a written contract with a signature will.

In the case of a webhost's terms of service, the client is forced to agree to the conditions before signing up. This can not be compared to "watching someone's bicycle".

Originally posted by thomas.smith
Of course it does ! A gas station owner can sue you to pay him the 10 Cent you owe him for a bubble gum even if nothing has ever been written down about it because that IS a contract

No, that is called theft of property and is punishable by law. As a "law student" you should know the difference.

[thomas.smith]

>You humor me. I just said a hosting contract isn't verbal yet in
>your reply you combined verbal contracts with written contracts.
>There is a difference. A verbal contract will not hold up in court
>since it's one person's word against another, a written contract
>with a signature will.

You are just talking about whether it is porvable or not. I am talking of the case that both parties say that they wanted to do this deal. Then it is a contract even if it is not written. Or if you have witnesses or audio or video recordings that prove that the deal was made. Still a contract does not require to be written.

>In the case of a webhost's terms of service, the client is forced
>to agree to the conditions before signing up. This can not be
>compared to "watching someone's bicycle".

All I am saying is that a contract does not require to be written and that is a fact. Even a hosting contract does not require to be written. A contract is not the piece of paper that it is written on even if it is written. If its written it is a contract that has been written down.

>No, that is called theft of property and is punishable by law. As
>a "law student" you should know the difference.

No, I am talking about the case that you go to a gas station owner and say I want this bubble gum but I'm going to pay it tomorrow. Lets say the gas station owner is your neighbour or friend and trusts you so you get the bubble gum and have to pay it tomorrow. Then tomorrow you don`t pay. That is NOT theft because that would require that you steal it and you can't steal something if the owner agrees to you taking it. Now although you don`t pay you didn`t do anything illegal but there is still a contract. Now lets say you and the gas station owner both agree on court that you were going to do this deal but you say that you are refusing to pay because the bubble gum was old and you couldn`t eat it. Now the judge will decide whether or not you have to pay for that bubble gum. That would be a contract and the funniest thing is: You wouldn`t believe how many such cases actually happen and do go to court. Many cases are about items that cost less then 10 bucks although the lawsuit is much more expensive than that. I mean if you say the case above sounds wired you are right but exactly that kind of stuff happens very often and they go to court because people have a legal insurance so the lawsuit doesn`t cost them anything and as a matter of fact a contract does not require to be written. Neither in the hosting business nor in the bubble gum or bike watching business. Only if there is a law that says that the deal you are going to do needs to be written (like selling real estate etc.) it must be written down.

[brendandonhu]

LOL, what law school do you go to? If you go to court over a verbal contract, there is no proof that the contract existed. With a signed piece of paper, you have proof that both parties agreed to it.

[thomas.smith]

>LOL, what law school do you go to?

University of Tuebingen which is amongst the most reputated universities in Germany exchanging students with Yales and Harvard.

>If you go to court over a verbal contract, there is no proof that
>the contract existed.

Even then it still IS a contract - you just can`t prove it. Of course it would be a totally stupid idea to make a verbal hosting contract without terms of service but all that I am saying is that a contract is not a piece of paper and that a verbal contract is legally valid exactly as much as a written contract. MOST contracts are verbal. Every time you go to the supermarket you agree to various non-written contracts and they are all legally valid contracts. MOST cases in court are about VERBAL contracts. That is a fact, too. In most of the cases all parties agree that the contract exists but there are other legal problems in regards to the deal. In the few cases where the parties don`t agree there are witnesses or video/audio recordings that prove it (i.e. security cameras in the super market prove that you have bought something). Now lets say you pay with your bank card but you have reached your bank limit. In Germany it can happen that you pay with your bank card but the bank refuses to send the money. Then if you don`t pay the shopping mall can sue you to get the money etc. There are millions of cases and most cases in court are cases about verbal contracts. I did never say that a hosting contract should not be written. All I said is that a contract does not require to be written. A contract is not a piece of paper that you sign.

>With a signed piece of paper, you have proof that both parties
>agreed to it.

Yes but a verbal contract is legally valid as much as a written contract. The fact that it might be harder to prove doesn`t change that. Many people think that a contract is a piece of paper that you sign on. Many hosting customers don`t even know that they have a contract when they agree to the terms and submit the order because they think a contract is a piece of paper that you sign on but that is not the case and that is all I wanted to say here: A contract does not need to be written. If you order a pizza via the phone that is a contract even if nothing was written down. You can`t just tell the pizza guy: "I changed my mind. I don`t want your pizza anymore". You have a contract and the pizza restaurant can sue you if you don`t pay. This contract is as valid as a written content. YES, there might be problems to prove it but it still is a legally valid contract.

[Amdac]

Sorry, I choose not to waste my time continuing this conversation. Comparing business contracts to buying bubble gum, watching friend's bikes, and ordering pizza just doesn't hold my interest.

[thomas.smith]

Buying bubble gum IS a business contract.