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  1. #1

    ---- Professional & Unique Hosting Website ------

    Selling a professional and unique hosting template, never sold before, never to be sold again, unique sale. The name used for the logo is not taken so you might wanna register that domain as well.

    This template includes:

    Layered PSD files for front and inner pages
    Sliced and coded Layout (Valid W3C Standards)
    XML - CSS ready to go
    ORIGINAL Logo
    All Images
    All Fonts

    PREVIEW HERE

    *This preview is 70% of original quality & watermarked.

    Price: $200 obo

    The price also includes minor modifications. If you have any questions, email me at sebastrance (@) hotmail (dot) com.
    Last edited by sebastrance; 08-05-2004 at 08:50 AM.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4
    Very nice, i think you wont have a hard time selling.
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  3. #3
    excellent template indeed!
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Traverse City, Michigan
    Posts
    8
    Yes, this template is a rarity (sp?). Um... Quality like this is hard to find is what I mean.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    22
    I cant actually see a template anywhere, Just a background
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  6. #6
    nice design indeed.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Yorkshire - UK
    Posts
    344
    I just see a background

    [edit : it all loaded, great template]
    Anthony Bullock
    Freelance Website & Graphic Designer
    SiteLotus.com - Freelance Design Portfolio
    Follow me on Twitter
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,545
    The checkered boxes are part of the watermark and not the design right?
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  9. #9
    Nice Design ,
    Good luck on the sell
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    47
    Classy

    _____________________
    xrazor.com
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  11. #11

    Checkered Boxes

    YES, The checkered boxes are part of the watermark, not the design.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    Sebastion, glad to see you here at WHT. I'm Tim, we talked by email.

    I understand you don't want to set up a live preview for people, and I don't blame you. However, between the watermark, the lower quality screen, and not being able to inspect the code, I do not want to commit to purchasing the design without getting a better look at it. I offer the following compromise....

    I send half of your asking price upfront, and you then arrange a private viewing of the site for me. Assuming everything is satisfactory, I will then send the other half. However, if for some reason I am not satisfied with the design in person, you must refund the payment sent.

    Forget about the CommunityGuide title under my name. I am also a regular member who has bought and sold thousands of dollars of merchandise and services here at WHT, and my deals are always smooth and easy.

    I myself have been ripped before, so I understand your position very well. However, you must also understand that I'm not going to commit to purchasing something I can't see at full quality, and fully functioning.

    Do we have a compromise?
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    289
    Sounds like Gen-T has an offer i could trust, well goodluck with the sale buddy.
    RackRhino Server Locations: MO, MI, NY, FL, UK
    Shared, Dedicated, Managed & Reseller.
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    Thank you JNadolski.

    Sebastion, I haven't heard back from you yet, and I will be out for most of the night, so please just give me a shout whenever you return, or tomorrow. Looking forward to a mutually beneficial transaction. Thank you.
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  15. #15
    Wow, very nice man. Looks real light and groovy.
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  16. #16

    Thanks

    Thanks for the kind words guys. I have more templates for sale if you're interested.

    Please take a look:

    Template 1

    Template 2

    Template 3

    Template 4

    Template 5

    PanamoHosting complete package still for sale:

    PREVIEW HERE

    If you have any questions contact me at sebastrance(@) hotmail (dot) com

    Thanks
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    Sebastian, I have just received your message, and have written you back to move ahead with the potential sale. Thanks for your courtesy, and I look forward to viewing the design.
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    I was suspicious of this guy to begin with, but since I understand the concerns about being ripped off (being a victim before myself) I tried to make a compromise.

    Originally posted by Gen-T
    Sebastion, glad to see you here at WHT. I'm Tim, we talked by email.

    I understand you don't want to set up a live preview for people, and I don't blame you. However, between the watermark, the lower quality screen, and not being able to inspect the code, I do not want to commit to purchasing the design without getting a better look at it. I offer the following compromise....

    I send half of your asking price upfront, and you then arrange a private viewing of the site for me. Assuming everything is satisfactory, I will then send the other half. However, if for some reason I am not satisfied with the design in person, you must refund the payment sent.

    Forget about the CommunityGuide title under my name. I am also a regular member who has bought and sold thousands of dollars of merchandise and services here at WHT, and my deals are always smooth and easy.

    I myself have been ripped before, so I understand your position very well. However, you must also understand that I'm not going to commit to purchasing something I can't see at full quality, and fully functioning.

    Do we have a compromise?
    Well I sent him $100 as agreed, and the design was completely unacceptable, and I gave him a list of reasons why. Well guess what? Now he refuses to honor our agreement, and despite 5 email conversations, he is not sending me my money. I warned him that if he did not honor our agreement, I would have no choice but to take action, and also take this public to avoid others falling victim.

    What is his reason for not refunding the money?

    He claims he did not know that text size is adjustable in browsers. That in itself is strange enough, especially for a designer. Anyway, one of the problems (on the list of problems with the site) was that even a single size increase causes the layout to lose it's properties and get very messed up. What does this have to do with him not giving my refund? Well, he says that I must have made a copy of his design, because otherwise how would I have been able to adjust the text size.

    Once again, as we all know, the text size is one of the most basic things you adjust on your browser. It was one of the first things I tested when getting access to the site. But since he thinks text size is not adjustable in browsers, he says I must have copied his page to use elsewhere.

    I'm not sure how to reason with this guy. I can teach him how browsers work. The text adjustment lesson will take about 2 seconds. I can point him to dozens of designs that I have bought and sold here, and list my references. I can bring up the fact that as a CommunityGuide, one of the things I do is try to help prevent people getting ripped, not contribute to it. So on and so forth...

    I am at a loss of words right now. He is trying to change the rules of the agreement, and talking by email is just getting more and more unreasonable replies. I'm hoping, that before getting paypal involved or his forum membership involved with the CL's, that this public post will convince him to do the right thing.
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    UPDATE: This really takes the cake.

    Another member has just provided me with a message this guy just sent, telling them the template was still for sale, and to send him money to his hotmail address, and they could download the design. So not only is the guy refusing to honor our agreement and refund my money, now he's trying to sell the design to somebody else and collect more money.
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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    I'm going to bed soon, so this is my last post on this tonight. I will sum things up...

    1A) I did not want to send this person money upfront, since he is a new member here, with no sales track record or references. I don't buy a car without seeing it, and taking it for a test drive. Same thing goes for a fully coded web site. I need to see it, and also see it "work".

    1B) I went ahead and decided to trust this person, since he agreed to my requirement in writing >>"if for some reason I am not satisfied with the design in person, you must refund the payment sent."

    1C) He is not keeping his word. He is not living up to his promise.

    1D) There was a list of things wrong with the design, but that's really not important, and I'm not here to discuss his design or coding skill. Whether there was 3 problems or 300, it does not matter. I was not happy and the site was useless to me, and that's all that matters. Our agreement covered this possible situation.

    2) I have worked with dozens of other designers here at WHT and Yaxay, and every one of them will tell you that I am easy to work with, and usually even give them a cash bonus above the agreed upon price.

    3) People who have been around the forum for a while know how passionate I am about web design, and that I am very outspoken regarding designers OR clients being ripped off. These are my people. These are the ones I identify with. I am the last person in the world who would send somebody $100 just to go copy their design, and then demand my money back.

    4) This guy took my money, showed me a site that did not meet my standards, and now refuses to give the money back, despite agreeing to do that if this situation occurred. So I have no money and no files. Not that I want the files, but the point is: he has everything, and I got nothing.

    The bottom line is that we had a specific agreement, and he has now broken his promise. There is no excuse for this. I will wait until tomorrow to see if this person comes thru and does the right thing. I hope after he sleeps on this, he wakes up and realizes how wrong this is. If he does not come thru, then I will pursue every possible avenue available to me.
    Last edited by Gen-T; 08-07-2004 at 04:39 AM.
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    513
    This pisses me right off! Especially cause i've been in Gen-t's shoes for a couple of times when it's the other way around so i know how he's feeling.

    I worked with Gen-t and i can tell you honoustly that he's one of the nicest and reasonable guys i've worked with so far. He never moaned, pushed or anything he was ALWAYS nice and friendly and he even paid me extra while he didn't even have to do that. And like that isn't enough, he even offered me to host me for free! (again we never talked about that). He's also a respectable member of this forum and iam sure that he never screwed someone over here. So plz take that into consideration.
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  22. #22

    I'm here

    OK Gen-T, first of all, why where you suspicious of my since the beginnign? had I done anything wrong? Let me tell you that it was ME who was suspicious of you telling me that you needed to see the design in full before purchasing it, we all know that is not how it works. I am sure, as you said, that you always test a car before you buy it, digital business don't workthat way. Can you imagine everyone requesting a preview of every design before purchasing it? It would be completely absurd.

    Second, please when you let other members know of the situation, please include the whole story and not whatever is most convenient for you. I sent you adn email telling you I had received other offers and if I sold the Design I would send you your money back, lets be honest sir !

    Please let everyone now that I also offered you making modifications to the existing design to fix "the problems" you encountered. An for the record, You cannot change the text size in my template by using IE's tex size feature, the css file was not linked to be for screen pursposes, there was not definition so you difniately MADE A COPY to be able to change it. Once again, my layout didn't allow text size changes, I control that, so you made a copy of it; who do you think I am?

    I am not changing the rules now, I gave you what I advertised, but you obviously wanted to steal my design so you will find 100 excuses to ask for your money back. Furthermore, I don't need your $100, believe me, i don't need to steal anyone's money, that's why I produce quality designs and make a living out of it, but whith millions of people like of you in the world, things just get worse.

    Just so you know, I'm not afraid of anyhing, And please ! don't send stupid emails with my address on them, I don't play games, and you won't scare me that way, you think you know how to do things heh ...

    Anyway, I will refund your money, but first I need you to apologize in public (since you made this issue public) and I also need you to state that since the beggining I was willing to cooperate. I understand you where not very happy when you posted those comments, because obviously you tried to rp me off and you couldn't. Hope to see your apologies soon and I will return your money, no hard feelings

    Sebastian
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  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    513
    I just want to clear out that i don't know this whole story, i haven't seen any mails from either side or anything like that, i didn't even speak to either one in mails or pm's and i don't want to mingle as well. The reason why i posted a reply is simply because i find it very hard (and so i don't) to believe that Gen-T would rip anyone off, as far as i know him, i know he isn't that type of guy.

    And just for the record, he never asked me to post, i just surf wht a lot and i like to see other peoples work, that's how i ended up here replying. But it seems to be solved now if iam correct.
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    23
    Sorry I wasn't here sooner. Someone cleared my cookies and I had to find my password again for my account .

    sebastrance

    First off I know first hand that Gen-T would be the last person on these forums to cheat anyone out of their money or steal something. Gen-T is a sincerely nice guy who always has the best intentions whether it be through conducting business or looking out for others. Sebastrance I find it really hard to believe your story.

    Let me tell you that it was ME who was suspicious of you telling me that you needed to see the design in full before purchasing it, we all know that is not how it works. I am sure, as you said, that you always test a car before you buy it, digital business don't workthat way. Can you imagine everyone requesting a preview of every design before purchasing it? It would be completely absurd.
    How is that the least bit absurd? Asking to see a working preview of a design before you purchase it is not absurd at all. I don't know what "digital business" you've been involved with, but all my clients and many more designer's clients that I know always ask for a preview before they invest their hard earned money.

    I doubt anybody would invest 100$ (USD) into a design if they only wanted to see the preview and rip the site. That to me just doesn't occur. Nobody in their right mind would invest any money so they could steal someone else's work. They would just pay for it....

    This market of selling products on the web (especially templates) is based solely on trust. If nobody can trust you, then you're not going to do any business plain and simple. Its a shame that you would try and pin this kind of crime on Gen-T. I know a bunch of people on these forums who have conducted business or dealt with Gen-T before and will see right through this accusion.

    I for one don't believe a word of it. I have been in Gen-T's position before and it really sucks.

    Gen-T

    Sorry for you loss, hopefully you get your money back.
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  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769

    Re: I'm here

    Originally posted by sebastrance
    I am sure, as you said, that you always test a car before you buy it, digital business don't workthat way. Can you imagine everyone requesting a preview of every design before purchasing it? It would be completely absurd
    Do you have any clue how "absurd" what you just said really is? People buying things blindly, without previews? Without seeing it? Much less from a guy who has no sales references and no history of transactions on the forum? THINK ABOUT IT.
    Originally posted by sebastrance
    An for the record, You cannot change the text size in my template by using IE's tex size feature, the css file was not linked to be for screen pursposes, there was not definition so you difniately MADE A COPY to be able to change it. Once again, my layout didn't allow text size changes, I control that, so you made a copy of it; who do you think I am?
    I can answer that 2 ways.

    1) You are a liar, and accusing me now in public of making a copy of your design is not only silly, but is possibly subject to a lawsuit for defamation of my character. You really should not go around accusing people of such things in public. NOT SMART.

    2A) Your style sheet was not applied to the preview you showed me. PERIOD. Funny that you have now taken the preview down since I am the only one who had the link, and you have my money. Hmmmm?? Going to apply that style sheet now I presume??

    2B) This is something you need to be aware of: A stylesheet is all but useless and gets over-written when viewing the site in FireFox/Mozilla. Again, you continue to demonstrate that you don't understand how text size works and effects layouts, which also continues to explain why your design falls apart when the text size changes. For the record, there is going to be some changes and minor problems in most layouts when the text size changes, and a good designer will account for this to minimize such problems. You, being completely unaware of text size changes, failed to take this into consideration.
    Originally posted by sebastrance
    I am not changing the rules now, I gave you what I advertised, but you obviously wanted to steal my design so you will find 100 excuses to ask for your money back.
    Do you have any morals or conscience? Do you even understand what those words mean? Of course I want my money back, and the design flaws are why. The design was unsatisfactory, and as you agreed I would get my money back if not satisfied. Yet again, you are completely ignoring our agreement.

    Also, this is the last time I'm going to warn you about making accusations regarding "stealing your design". I don't live in CrazyWorld where people go around accusing each other of theft just because they disagree, so I'm not quite sure what to say. I can deal with liars and egos, that is no problem. But I can't really understand somebody who pulls allegations of theft out of thin air, just to try and keep $100 in his paypal account. This is just too much.
    Originally posted by sebastrance
    Anyway, I will refund your money, but first I need you to apologize in public (since you made this issue public) and I also need you to state that since the beggining I was willing to cooperate. I understand you where not very happy when you posted those comments, because obviously you tried to rp me off and you couldn't. Hope to see your apologies soon and I will return your money, no hard feelings
    I'm not sure whether to laugh, cry, or just assume that during the night somebody came and moved me and all my stuff to CrazyWorld while I was sleeping. This is one of the most strange encounters I have ever had with another human being.

    Basically, you lied about everything, completely ignore the agreement, accuse theft of your design, then have the nerve to do them all again, while ending with "Hope to see your apologies soon and I will return your money, no hard feelings"

    Somebody please, wake me up. I promise to not eat spicy foods right before going to bed again. I always heard that can cause nightmares, but now I see first hand that it's true. This is scary.

    FINALE WORD

    Well Sebastion, you have my money, I have no files. Not that I want the files anyway, because they are useless to me, but doesn't it seem a bit odd that you have everything, and I have nothing? Also odd that you took down the preview that you claim I'm the only person who had the link for. After all Sebastion, answer this >> Since you have my money, and you think I copied the site, and you claim your style sheet was installed, why would you take it down? Hellooooo??

    Not to mention, you continue to ignore the agreement that says you would refund my money if I was not satisfied. This is the KEY issue that you just keep passing over as if it meant nothing. Well, apparently to you, it did mean nothing. Your word means nothing.

    Look, after spending thousands of dollars on designs, there is not a single one that I have ever returned or demanded a refund from. I just spent $800 on designs this week, and member ic3d who posted above just sold me a $400 design a couple weeks ago. Member Carro is also another designer I have done business with, and I appreciate both of them commenting on my behalf. Furthermore, I bought and sold a complete template design company here at WHT for a couple thousand dollars. So you think I am suddenly going to join the dark side over $100?

    Sir your comments are ridiculous and insulting, and while you have some design talent, that does not make up for your total lack of ethics and honesty. Your need for this $100 must be so great, that it has caused you to forget everything that honest business and trustworthy trading is based on. I hope you needed the money to feed a starving family, because that's the only possible excuse for your actions.

    This is disgusting. There is no other way to describe it. I am not really mad. I am more sad than anything. I can point you to dozens of design transactions here at WHT, and I have never had a single problem (on my end), though I myself have been the victim of being ripped off before. I have nothing to defend, though you have put me in a position that makes it very difficult to sit by quietly as you take advantage of me.

    I'm going to ask one last time for my money. You have another chance to make this right, and even have this thread closed so it fades away. If you choose not to do the right thing here, than all I can say is that your reputation will follow you, because we don't take kindly to this stuff here.

    Good day.
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