Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Reseller Hosting : WHM reselling and off site master domain

[jasser]

Say I want to setup a $40 WHM/Cpanel reseller account using a domain i.e. mydomain.com as the master account.

I buy the plan, go to my registrar setup private nameservers provided by the company I bought the reseller plan from

ns1.mydomain.com > 000.000.00.00 whatever IP...
ns2.mydomain.com > 000.000.00.00 whatever IP...

and start hosting both mydomain.com and for example 5 resold accounts.

now I want to host the main "master" domain mydomain.com at another company "someotherhost.com" for failsafe purposes, like if the reseller server goes down the resold customers can still email me via yahoo mail or something like that...

So I know that I keep the hosts nameserver settings the same pointing to the same IP's. and just change the nameservers mydomain.com is pointing to in the settings to ns1.someotherhost.com, ns2.someotherhost.com.

but now if any of the 5 resold domains from my WHM reseller plan try to email me from the resold domains, it will go to the mailbox of mydomain.com on the same server right? the server will think, "oh, that domain is hosted right here on this same box in fact it's the master domain for this resold account, I'll just throw the mail in that mailbox on this same server" right?

So then what I need to do is change the MX entry on the server for mydomain.com to point to where it's actually hosted right?

How do I do this?

by pointing to the IP address of the nameserver of someotherhost.com or by the nameservers of the someotherhost.com? I basically need to tell the server, "Hey, if you want to email mydomain.com it's not really hosted here anymore, it's at someotherhost.com so dump your email for that domain at this other company"

Also I know that I would have to access my reseller plan by IP address and couldn't access it anymore by mydomain.com/cpanel for example....

Other than those two things would there be any other changes or problems I don't know about?

TIA!

[Techark]

Sorry you have me confused.

Why if the domain is hosted on another would the mail think your domain is on that server? WHM/Cpanel uses a file called etc/localdomains for the routing of mail if your domain is listed in it then mail never leaves the server and is routed internal to the server if it is not then it sends mail out of the server and mail is routed as normal via the DNS settings for the account.

So if your main domain is on another server mail would go to that server and not be routed internal. You would however have to add a A entry to your DNS zone file for ns1 and ns2 to point them back to the correct IP's where the name servers should be. This does however cause a delay in the lookup and if your main sites servers goes down it could cause your resold accounts to be very slow.


A better solution is to get a .com and net name for your domain then use the .net on the same server as your resold accounts for your name servers and the .com for your main site hosted on second server. FInd a host with servers in two different data centers and ask them to give you small amount of space and bandwidth for your main account on the other network.

[jasser]

Techark said: "WHM/Cpanel uses a file called etc/localdomains for the routing of mail if your domain is listed in it then mail never leaves the server and is routed internal to the server"

and that is precisely the problem, my "main account master domain" wouljd be in the local setup files as being the authorative domain for the resold accounts and thus as you said that mail would be routed internally to the server... It wouldn't even get a chance to check the "outside world" DNS settings becuase the server would just have said, "oh it's local, no need to check outside" I need it to check the "outside world DNS" or at least reroute it to the right place which is how I assume MX records work.

I don't understand the A entry... I would have setup my private name servers to their IP address at my registrar at the beginning and not change any settings even if I were to move the main domain mydomain.com to another server since the resold accounts should still be pointing to those nameservers while I would just have to edit the nameservers that the main domain is pointing to right?

the COM/NET solution that you proposed would be great, but unfortunately it's too late for that now...

[Techark]

Why would your main domain be in the local setup file if it is hosted on another server? That is where you have me confused.

When a site is directed to a name server the world DNS servers normally direct to the Top Level Domains dns zone which is your main sites zone to search for the A records to the name servers, it would then hit that zone and be directed to the other server via the A records you create there.

[Esr Tek]

Originally posted by Techark
Why would your main domain be in the local setup file if it is hosted on another server? That is where you have me confused.

Because he had his main domain on the reseller account, where clients are, and that server has to keep his account there as it's the username for WHM.
It will deliver 'local' mail from that sever to that servers account, and never try to use DNS/MX settings.

Have your host either remove the local domains entry, so that account has no mail.
Or simply edit the IP, the MX record has on reseller accounts DNS zone, to your new host IP, to have mail sent off.

If your gettin new NS on new host for main account, set those up to something like NS01/NS02 or whatever.
Then in reseller account edit DNS zone for main account and replace the NS with new ones or new IP's, to point your site to new server.

[jasser]

Yes, Esr Tek, you got it right...

Though I don't understand what is a "local domains entry" if the account had no email wouldn't it just create a "local bounce back" rather than deilvering to where it's actually hosted?

you also said

"simply edit the IP, the MX record has on reseller accounts DNS zone, to your new host IP, to have mail sent off."

I'm guessing this is the better option as the mail from my resold account will actually be delivered to me... though I don't clearly understand how to do this... would I change the MX record of my main resold account through Cpanel to point to the nameserver of the new host ns1.someotherhost.com or would it be the shared IP address that the domain is actually hosted or some other IP? Or maybe it's a setting in WHM as opposed to Cpanel? I would just change the setting for my master main domain and not need any changes to the resold domains right?

You also said "If your gettin new NS on new host for main account, set those up to something like NS01/NS02 or whatever.
Then in reseller account edit DNS zone for main account and replace the NS with new ones or new IP's, to point your site to new server."

I dont' really understand this either. I would definately be getting new name servers... Something like

ns1.someotherhost.com
ns2.someotherhost.com

I'd change that at the registrar for my main domain only. Wait a max of 72 hours and propogation would be complete... Then I wouldn't need to do the second part of your post right? Seems safer to just wait for propogation since I wouldn't want any of the resold plans to point to this other server right?

thanks for the help!

[SomeOneOutThere]

You can create an account at a free cPanel host then change your MX record in cPanel to your new free hosting. Then use that free hosting to create @yourname.com

[Esr Tek]

Originally posted by jasser
Yes, Esr Tek, you got it right...

Though I don't understand what is a "local domains entry" if the account had no email wouldn't it just create a "local bounce back" rather than deilvering to where it's actually hosted?

Local domains entry is a file that contains the users allowed to send/recieve mail on system. Each account when created has an entry added to it. To disable mail, the entry simply needs to be removed. No local bounces, it will go out in mail queue like normal.

you also said

"simply edit the IP, the MX record has on reseller accounts DNS zone, to your new host IP, to have mail sent off."

I'm guessing this is the better option as the mail from my resold account will actually be delivered to me... though I don't clearly understand how to do this... would I change the MX record of my main resold account through Cpanel to point to the nameserver of the new host ns1.someotherhost.com or would it be the shared IP address that the domain is actually hosted or some other IP? Or maybe it's a setting in WHM as opposed to Cpanel? I would just change the setting for my master main domain and not need any changes to the resold domains right?

Probably is best/easiest option. I personally would change in WHM Edit DNS Zone, but you can use cPanel MX change feature too. You use the IP for your site at new host, not nameservers.
You do this to your reseller account, where site used to be.

You also said "If your gettin new NS on new host for main account, set those up to something like NS01/NS02 or whatever.
Then in reseller account edit DNS zone for main account and replace the NS with new ones or new IP's, to point your site to new server."

I dont' really understand this either. I would definately be getting new name servers... Something like

ns1.someotherhost.com
ns2.someotherhost.com

I'd change that at the registrar for my main domain only. Wait a max of 72 hours and propogation would be complete... Then I wouldn't need to do the second part of your post right? Seems safer to just wait for propogation since I wouldn't want any of the resold plans to point to this other server right?

thanks for the help!

You change your sites, on reseller account, DNS Zone only, not the IP's for your customers NS's (ns1/ns2).
I assumed you where leavin all them alone and tryin to avoid customers from having downtime or change any settings.

However I did mess up a bit in first post..
Once site is live on both servers, and you just got done updating you main sites NS's to point to new host (ns1/ns2.someotherhost.com).

What you do is change the sites IP and MX entry on old server via WHM - Edit DNS Zone. (yes use the new host IP in both entries).
This way while propagation goes, anyone who tries to get to site via old NS's will be directed to old server (like normal) and the IP change there would point site content to be servered from new host's server.

[Techark]

Simply have your host change the domain on your main reseller account to a sub domain of his. For instance reseller.hisdomain.com that way your user name stays the same and you can still access WHM etc. Then have him remove the entry of your domain name from /etc/localdomains

Then you can host your main site else where and still get mail, if you leave it as a domain on the same server and just remove the entry anytime they run /scripts/mailperm to fix someones mailbox it will add your entry back in and you will lose mail.

[jasser]

It still seems like just changing the MX entry would be the easiest and best way... is there anything bad about doing it this way???

As far as I know all I need to do is change the MX entry and repoint mydomain.com to another host using their name servers...

I would only need to redirect "things" from the same server to itself, i.e. email and not webpage viewing becuase that is coming from an outside ISP with updated DNS etc... the only thing that would travel from the server to itself is email correct? after 72 hours propogation I wouldn't even need to touch the A record for www redirection right?

[Techark]

I have not tried it but to my understanding that as long as that domain is listed in the /etc/localdomains file list the MX record is not read by the mail server so mail still would not make it off the server.

I had this very issue with a client using a off site mail server and all his accounts MX records pointed to the off site server. But if any mail was sent from one domain to the other on the same server or form mail scripts it never got to him untl we removed the localdomains entry for all his domains, then it started using the MX record and off site mail server.

The problem is though as I stated if there is a major upgrade to cpanel, exim, or the host needs to run /scripts/mailperm to fix a mail account it adds missing entrys back the file. So he has to remember to delete your domain every time something like that happens or set up some kind of cron job to do it every so often.

Still think your best bet is just to have your hsot change the domain name your master WHM account is using that will not affect your resold accounts at all as they are owned by your user name not your domain. Since you are not going to use it for anything but to manage your accounts then it can be any old domain name it does not have to have a web site or use any resources.

[jasser]

Hmm, thanks Techark for the clarification... interesting... seems almost like a bug that the server would not recognize the MX record when seeing the localdomains file, it should check local domains first, then check MX records before putting the email where it needs to go wouldn't you think?

remembering to delete the domain from the localhosts file after upgrades or setting up a cron job for it is a pain to say the least... and would probably create problems in the future...

Also you said that I could have the host change the domain that the reseller plan is under, but what if I have "private nameservers" under this domain?

ns1.mydomain.com
and
ns2.mydomain.com

for example... if they changed the domain the master reseller account was under seems like it would affect the private nameservers...

really wish I would have started out with .net and .com using the .net for setting up private nameservers and forwarding for email and http to the .com, that would have been great....

[Techark]

That is why you have to add A records pointing back the IP's for your name server under you main sites DNS zone where ever it is hosted. If you do that and then your host creates a DNS zone for each name server it will work.

[jasser]

In Cpanel under change MX Entry is the following...

______________________

DNS File MX Entry Maintenance
Change MX for mydomain.com to:

Hint: You must enter a FQDN (Fully Qualified Domain Name) as the MX destination.

Warning: Changing your MX to something besides mail.mydomain.com will prevent us from managing your mail. Your email will no longer be sent to this server.

_________________________

That gives me at least the impression that it would accomplish what I need, sending mail from the server off of the server to where it's really hosted without problems with any local domains file entry... but I guess it doesn't work acording to what you said... seem like it would according to Cpanel though wouldn't you think?

[Techark]

In order to see the MX record it has to access the DNS zone file if the domain it listed in the localdomains file it does not access the DNS zone so it nevers sees the MX record you have set up for a domain that is not hosted on the server but has a DNS entry that nothing will ever see.

If it is listed in localdomains the server knows it does not have to do a dns lookup it just has to process the mail local so it saves bandwith and time.

All I can tell you is set it up the way you want and if it does not work know why now.