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  1. #1

    Exclamation PayPal's refusal to issue PayPal Debit Card to non-US customers

    Anyone outside the US tried to obtain a PayPal Debit Card, which is distributed FREE to US PayPal customers? For many non-US users this would be a convenient way to withdraw money from their PayPal account, either through ATM's or POS*. For many PayPal users that would eliminate the hassle and expense of opening a US bank account.

    But my various requests by email and phone were declined, because I'm an international customer, and not a US user, which makes me "unfit" to qualify for the card.

    Maybe it's now time to start "bombarding" PayPal with applications for their Debit Card by non-US PayPal customers. That will make them aware of the problem, and may speed up internal discussions within PayPal. Demands for PP DC's should also be addressed to PP executive management, to be found here: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...n/team-outside

    PayPal discriminates against its international clientele. It's time to unite, stand up and fight back. We, PayPal customers, are the raison d'etre of PayPal's very existence!

    E PLURIBUS UNUM !


    *POS = Point Of Sale = any place where you use your card for
    purchases: stores, internet, etc.
    Last edited by paulcoin; 06-26-2004 at 03:32 AM.
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  2. #2
    I second your view
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    I agree it would be nice. However, Paypal is fundamentally a US company, and the same reason that US banks do not normally open account for foreign residents apply to them as well.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Unhappy Nothing to compare PayPal with US banks

    First of all, paulcoin, a good idea.

    Then, Lyoung, no comparison can be made with US banks which, at best, are hesitant to open non-US accounts. And the very few that do, impose multiple obstacles and/or restrictions.

    PayPal's policy is exactly the opposite: international personal, business and merchant accounts received with open arms, no questions asked. Just sign up, activate your account, and you're up and running. Receive payments, make payments, add funds, withdraw funds (to a bank - if you CAN...), etc.

    Don't forget that PayPal is 'de facto' both a virtual credit card clearing house, and a virtual bank. And if you can withdraw money (to a US or non-US bank), then they actually operate outside the scope of all those US laws that make opening an account with a 'real' US bank such a difficult task.

    So, forget about any legal comparisons, because there are none, except the fact that both (PayPal and US banks) have accounts where they keep your money, and from which you can withdraw money (if you CAN...).

    If PayPal can issue debit cards to US customers, they can do so for non-US clients too. If that is the purpose of this forum, then we should support it.
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  5. #5
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    PayPal's debit cards are issued through a third party bank that chooses not to work with international credit & debit card accounts, if I am correct. I believe that they have started testing the debit cards with Canadian customers though. PayPal can't start partnering with banking institutions in every country in order to let you have a debit card - it's not discrimination. Bombarding them with foriegn applications is not going to do anything.

    - Matt
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  6. #6
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    I'm in Canada and had no problem obtaining a card.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
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    It is very important to realize that the reason that merchant processors, 3rd party processors and even various issuers do not service the international market has nothing to do with things like "lack of willingness", "lack of desire" or "discrimination" - and everything to do with legislation and regulation.

    For instance, Visa and MasterCard have various territories that they regulate. They have different programs and structures for different markets... and they specifically prohibit a U.S. merchant processor from setting up foreign merchants.

    Along a similiar line, the Patriot Act legislature here in the U.S. enacted post 9/11, makes it nearly impossible for a bank to setup a bank account for a non-U.S. individual or business these days.

    Credit card issuers, just like their acquiring counterparts, also face similiar restrictions and obstacles. Often times, these obstacles are not easily overcome and sometimes the foreign banks that have domicile over that "territory" don't want to share and thus are disinclined to let anyone else "step on their turf."

    This is the reason why you don't see a proliferation of merchant accounts and credit / debit cards being issued to international entities.

    Believe me - if we COULD - we'd love to offer merchant accounts to Canada, Europe, Australia, Asia and other areas of the world... but that just isn't feasible at this time due to the above reasons.

    I'm sure that PayPal is in a similiar boat but over time, they may overcome some of these obstacles to the benefit of their international clientele.
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  8. #8
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    Believe me - if we COULD - we'd love to offer merchant accounts to Canada, Europe, Australia, Asia and other areas of the world... but that just isn't feasible at this time due to the above reasons.
    PayPal does offer them to Canada.
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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by HBN
    PayPal does offer them to Canada.
    I believe they deal with a different company to offer debit cards in Canada. As I said earlier, they can't start partnering with & integrating their services with banks in each country to offer debit cards to every customer.

    - Matt
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  10. #10
    Join Date
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    My comment on "we'd love to offer merchant accounts" was actually referring to CDG, not to PayPal.

    I was just making the point that it isn't usually a matter of willingness, but a result of legal and regulatory restrictions - that stops most financial businesses from offering their services abroad.

    But... I'm glad to hear that PayPal offers their debit card to Canada!
    CDGcommerce.com - Trusted Merchant Account Solutions since 1998
    Many thousands of successful, growing businesses benefit from our expertise every day. You can, too!
    We help merchants to eliminate gateway costs, reduce & mitigate fraud and achieve streamlined PCI compliance.
    Learn more today at http://www.cdgcommerce.com - we look forward to helping your business grow!
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  11. #11

    World Marketplace

    Ebay-Paypay claims to be the world marketplace! How can it be????? They can not even offer a overseas payment system .
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  12. #12
    Alright i have a question.
    My Paypal is canadian, my card is on its way to Canada. I live in costa Rica. My partner is in Canada. The card is on my name. He will send it to me (costa rica, central america) will i be able to use it?
    hehe..
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    msn: josue [at] sonnexh.com
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  13. #13

    Mail fowarding

    I dont know! Maybe the master Paulcoin nows it.

    But if yes, it is possible to use a mail fowarding service in USA to receive your card and send it to your country.

    It is not expensive.
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  14. #14
    You can use that card in Costa Rica since it's a CC,but you may get flagged for fraud.

    Also, Canada is the United States closest neighbours. We share a lot of the same things. It's probably very easy to get things going in Canada once they are in place in the States.

    BTW if you want a CAD merchant account go for PSIgate
    Hockey is Life
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  15. #15
    Indeed thats what im worried about (the froud flag).

    I've asked paypal anywyas, dont want my account to be frozen :p

    Thanks.
    Sonnex Hosting
    Where the users are happy
    msn: josue [at] sonnexh.com
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  16. #16
    I can go for both sides on this issue. I am a US customer for PayPal and I can understand wants to keep the more complex stuff for in-country clients but maybe you should get a e-mail collection going and keep sending e-mails to PayPal telling them that you want them to issue debit cards to international customers. By the way, I am a US customer and I don't have a debit card from PayPal. That's my word on the issue.
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  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by josue
    Alright i have a question.
    My Paypal is canadian, my card is on its way to Canada. I live in costa Rica. My partner is in Canada. The card is on my name. He will send it to me (costa rica, central america) will i be able to use it?
    hehe..
    Yes you should, however paypal is liable to call and verify purchases OFTEN.

    They pop me with a "fraud prevention" phone call just about anytime my card starts getting used outside north Alabama. If you don't answer the 2nd call (meaning they try twice0 then they suspend the card until you call them (has happened to me 3 times in the last 2 years). No big deal you call verify your info then verify "yes I bought blah on blah at blah" for a few transactions then they turn it back on, I even did it waiting at the checkout once It worked as soon as I hung up the phone.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    San Francisco Bay Area
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    hey folks... PayPal debit cards for various geographies aren't available for lack of desire, just that we're still building out all the necessary plumbing and infrastructure.

    since PayPal started in US/north america and we're located here, some services mey get rolled out here first and gradually introduced to other locations. note: we just added more countries and bank withdrawal support here:
    http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...ntries-outside

    recently we've been able to clear some local regulatory approval issues in the EU and several other locations, some PayPal features will likely start becoming easier for us to rollout there.

    that said, as someone else pointed out above there may be unique bank/card/currency/regulatory issues for various countries that may take time to figure out. but we *DO* hope to expand debit card usage to other geographies as soon as we possibly can.

    and paulcoin, i'll fwd this thread to the international folks so they can use this as leverage with the product team to get stuff out faster!


    (btw: it's somewhat amazing to think that just 5 years ago, PayPal didn't even *exist*... now we're in 45 countries worldwide...)
    - Dave McClure
    PayPal Developer Network
    http://www.paypal.com/pdn/
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  19. #19
    Venezuela is Allowed????

    Wohoooo! Now I can tell my cousin about it
    ^_^
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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    999
    I agree. It'd have been much convenient and I dont think its too difficult for PayPal. Its just that they want to rip off too much from the Non-US users. Most times users who dont find a US Bank account leave/close their funded accounts and there PayPal profits..
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    999
    PayPal Geek,
    Thanks for your response, feels good to get a reply. I emailed so many times, but most times they just paste a few lines from the FAQ, its irritating

    Singapore and Taiwan allowed, Why Not INDIA?
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  22. #22
    it happened to a friend of mine, and he cant set up paypal now, it really sucks
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  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    San Francisco Bay Area
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    Originally posted by openXS

    Singapore and Taiwan allowed, Why Not INDIA?
    i'm assuming you mean for local bank withdrawal... i believe we're working on it for India, but again it's a "local plumbing" issue. sorry, don't have a date on that one yet however i'd agree that's probably one of our next few targets.

    and now that we (eBay) just acquired Bazee.com in India, i'd imagine it will become a higher priority. a lot of the paypal country support strategy tends to follow the overall eBay geographic coverage.

    if i get any updates on India i'll forward the info...
    - Dave McClure
    PayPal Developer Network
    http://www.paypal.com/pdn/
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  24. #24
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by PayPalGeek

    (btw: it's somewhat amazing to think that just 5 years ago, PayPal didn't even *exist*... now we're in 45 countries worldwide...)
    And still only such limited currencies available for accepting payments. If PayPal would add some of the more major currencies (NZD for one) that would be so useful, I mean, it an't be tooo hard.

    There is a market for a trusted (while some would disagree for 99% of us you do the job well) 3rd party payment processor such as PayPal in New Zealand, I imagine in Australia as well, not just from businesses wanting a cheap and effective payment processor without needing a merchant account, as much as from the burgeoning auction communities (for example trademe.co.nz).

    Currently PayPal kicks a** as long as you are dealing in the "Big-5" currencies (USD, GBP, EUR, CAD, JYP) but outside of those currencies it's just a pain in the butt which makes it useless for local dealings in countries with different local currencies.

    PayPal should give consideration to adding a few more currencies in which payments can be accepted.
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  25. #25

    Some info for PayPalGeek

    Good to see that someone from the "inside" of PayPal is taking notice. It would be even better if some folks "high-up" in the eBay / PayPal hierachy get into the act, and get this moving, so that international PayPal customers can start using the PayPal debit card (or even a downgraded version which would functions as an ATM card).

    Simply mentioning to international clients that "money must be withdrawn to a US bank account", proves that PayPal officials are completely out of touch with US reality. Courtesy of the Patriot Act, opening a US bank account has become very difficult and expensive. I finally managed to open a US bank account two years ago through an intermediary company that sets up US bank accounts, only to have it arbitrarily closed down in April 2004. That was The Bancorp Bank of Wilmington, DE. So, I both lost my bank account and the money I paid to the middleman.

    Now, one can still open a US bank account through the same intermediary (and other), but his commission has gone up, and the terms for maintaining a US bank account are terribly inferior to those terms given by other banks to their US clientele.

    Few US banks still allow international customers to open a personal bank account directly with them "by mail" (no need to come to the US, and no need for a middleman), such as Wells Fargo and HSBC.
    But WF will only accept incoming PayPal transfers as long as the amounts are non-commercial in size. What amounts are deemed non-commercial and what are regarded as commercial? That's up to their discretion, meaning that they can close down the account at any time, or require me to upgrade to a "small business account", for which I must really be a US resident with an SSN, ITN, EIN, CIA, FBI, ATF, GOP, LAPD (NYPD mugshot not accepted 'cause WF is not a NY bank...) number.
    HSBC categorically refuses to accept opening personal accounts to receive PayPal funds.

    PayPal MUST address the problems of its international customers very soon, because another service provider, IKOBO, is offering a similar service, and DOES issue a so-called i-Kard - a low-cost ATM card for use worldwide. If more and more international PayPal customers get exasperated and move to iKobo, then PayPal will suddenly realize it's in a hell of a lot of trouble, but then it's too late...!

    I suggest that you get this issue rolling, and move it up the ladder, to the highest possible person you can get. Not "some department", not "someone in charge", but to a senior VP in charge of international business at PayPal / eBay.
    And they should not forget to periodically update their international customers on all stages of progress made; either on the PayPal website, or by email to their international account holders.

    PayPalGeek, the ball is in your (PayPal's) court now. It's YOUR (PayPal's) move!

    DON'T LET IT BE IKOBO'S MOVE !!!
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  26. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
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    Hi Paulcoin!!

    Paulcoin i see that wherever you go something good happens!! Accept my congratulations...it is not so often that we (international sellers) have the ability to talk almost directly to someone from Paypal/Ebay,I hope they do their maths soon and make their move....
    Both Ebay and Paypal dont seem to be very interested in their out of US community....YEs,Yes,they opened sites to some other countries but the so called "civilized" ones....what about the other sellers from Eastern Europe,Africa,Asia or even some of the the "poor cousins" of the European Union??
    Everything was designed from all the begining with a logic of a US company for US clients.....our money are also good,we also make a lot of sales and we deserve attention....International sellers problems are too many and NO ONE till now showed an underlined interest to even ask.....
    I agree that we have power...lets do something...organise an email campaign dont just sit and wait to see if they ''ll wake up in good mood to give us what we deserve.
    There isnt much of will to help us and there must be someone to remind them who is paying a large part of their fat salaries....

    Paulcoin:
    Give us an email and an address and we 'll all send it....
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  27. #27

    EBAY RESULTS

    Hello to all!

    I saw on bloomberg TV that the solid result ebay is having is because its growing OUTSIDE USA.

    So ebay should give more attention to us!

    Thanks!

    EduVC
    Original Hammock from Brazil
    Ebay: Reobote_br
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  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    mani got my paypal debit card which works as master card.i am in canada
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  29. #29
    Hello

    I just wanted to say very quickly, that PayPal now have there own indepentant branch in the United Kingdom, and also have new bank relations in the United Kingdom, which means (as paypal put it) UK users are now governed under UK law and uk trading stadards, if this is true, then why is it that UK users, (including myself) cant get the Visa debit card) if paypal dont want to give all of us UK users the same benefits as USA users, then they should have not setup shop here, and stayed in the USA...
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  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Originally posted by PayPalGeek
    i'm assuming you mean for local bank withdrawal... i believe we're working on it for India, but again it's a "local plumbing" issue. sorry, don't have a date on that one yet however i'd agree that's probably one of our next few targets.
    Withdrawal to Local bank as well as Debit Card to Indian Users. Debit Card should'nt be a problem till you allow withdrawal to Indian Banks.

    Originally posted by PayPalGeek and now that we (eBay) just acquired Bazee.com in India, i'd imagine it will become a higher priority. a lot of the paypal country support strategy tends to follow the overall eBay geographic coverage.
    Yes, but as far as I know, Bazee and acquiring info page says that they've no plans to integrate PayPal into Bazee for quite sometime. Don't know whats it now?

    Originally posted by PayPalGeek if i get any updates on India i'll forward the info...
    That'd be really great. Its really good to have some insider from PayPal answer things. Most times I email my questions to PayPal support and I recieve text from PayPal FAQ, they just paste it from the FAQ until I write something good *wink*

    Originally posted by paulcoinDON'T LET IT BE IKOBO'S MOVE !!!
    Exactly! I believe that Ikobo is getting more popular now. Moneybookers and eGold (to some extent) is replacing PayPal. As I think PayPal is a great service and quite safe (for me so far), I wont like PayPal to be replaced by those services.
    When everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough Mario Andretti, Racer
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  31. #31
    TO PayPalGeek, could you please contact me at wolfnacht666 @ yahoo.com ? I have some questions to ask and you might be the best guy to help me out. thanks!
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  32. #32
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Me too, I got my Paypal master card

    Originally posted by sonyt616
    mani got my paypal debit card which works as master card.i am in canada
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  33. #33
    There is a very very good reason why its really only the USA that issues these pre-paid cards. There terminal equipment is very upto date.

    I wont go into detail for obvious reasons but..

    Your in england on a say a train. You dont have a ticket.. The ticket man comes along and asks for money. You give him your pre-paid card. The machine will only check the bin number and not get a real time auth...

    Its the same with my local takeaways with the old manual carbon machines....

    until Europe catches up with the USA in regard to wireless terminals etc we probably wont see mainstream pre-paid here in a hurry..
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  34. #34
    Hello

    I have to disagree, England is upto date totally, if what your saying is true, why is it that Ikobo issues Visa debit cards to UK people and there based within the UK?

    wireless terminals are here, its not england, its the company, for example companies wont pay for wireless terminals because they cost to much.
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  35. #35
    No england is still very behind in the processing market. Wireless terminals are not really used here stll and yet in America the wireless terminal is one the best selling i believe.

    There are still a lot of companies using the manual auth system and you say Ikobo are still offering the card but not other major bank is within England.

    Ps: I live in england so know what its like
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  36. #36
    Join Date
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    74s3, err, your wrong.

    Indeed... we have wireless and 'chip & pin' etc...
    Matt Wallis
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  37. #37
    UH-Matt..

    Thats right, We dont live in the 1800's, Anyone would think that England does not have credit cards and we pay with stones.

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  38. #38
    74s3

    I missed your post, I live In torquay, england.. and i'm telling you straight that from owning a news agents and having a swipe in my shop (for the last 5 years) that the old swipe over blue print style went out a long time ago, and yes.. I can get hold of a wireless swipe terminal with ease... come take a holiday down here and I'll show you how easy it is to get one... Maybe you live in the past or something, but those old ones are long gone.
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  39. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
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    Originally posted by Mailaform

    Thats right, We dont live in the 1800's, Anyone would think that England does not have credit cards and we pay with stones.

    Amen to that!!

    Its not that US is more advanced or something, but they just have way too many facilities that in other countries.

    Well, Its Going Offtopic...
    When everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough Mario Andretti, Racer
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  40. #40
    Doesn't sound right. It has got nothing to do with the POS Terminals nor ATM Machines. Infact, a friend of mine signed up on paypal on his own name and bank account and send the package to my friend who was using it in India. Once he got the paypal mastercard, he sent that as well to my friend here in India and he is using it from the past 1 year and there were never no calls, no verification nothing. The card works perfectly, everywhere.

    It must be some other reason why they are not issuing cards for non US Citizens but maybe they will one day. There was a time when paypal was only for USA alone but look at them now.

    It must be some sort of agreement with the bank that is issuing these cards and their policies about issuing cards for non-residents of the USA. Maybe if they tie up with more USA banks even that do International Accounts and accept paypal, they can have it issued for international customers.
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