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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Houston police laser speed gun

    Hello folks,

    I had a speeding ticket last month that I saw no ground for.
    I went to court, pleaded not guilty and told the judge "my side of the story"... but still... the cop won.

    Literally everyone who proceeded to trial by the judge were guilty that day, and the cop didn't look too honest to me (and others)

    I now found some new and better grounds to argue and will appeal after hearing what the cop said about my case.

    I just need someone to explain to me how the speed gun of the cops works. In particular, I have these questions:

    What is the technical range of that gun.?
    What is the range of practical operation (human-factor)?
    How big is the cross-hair when it is locked on a moving vehicle from 1000 ft away, from 100 ft away and 10 ft away?
    Must the cross-hair be totally on the object or just part of it is sufficient?
    Where do they *have to* aim (front bumper, windshield, roof or side door..?) for a correct speed clock?

    Anthing else you would add will be appreciated.

    Thanks!
    ML
    ... from the beginning.

  2. #2
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    First of all, were you speeding?

    Laser guns only need to be pointing at the car. Since the whole car is doing the same speed.
    Roughly 1 mile range on the newer ones.
    Pretty sure the cross hair stays the same size
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  3. #3
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    What is the technical range of that gun.?
    What is the range of practical operation (human-factor)?
    How big is the cross-hair when it is locked on a moving vehicle from 1000 ft away, from 100 ft away and 10 ft away?
    Must the cross-hair be totally on the object or just part of it is sufficient?
    Where do they *have to* aim (front bumper, windshield, roof or side door..?) for a correct speed clock?
    You are not going to win by arguing through those points.
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  4. #4
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    Originally posted by Philipf
    First of all, were you speeding?

    Laser guns only need to be pointing at the car. Since the whole car is doing the same speed.
    Roughly 1 mile range on the newer ones.
    Pretty sure the cross hair stays the same size
    If it's pointed at the front bumper, then when the cop accidently move the crosshair left or right or up or down, the result stay the same. Buf if he points it on the windshield near the roof and accidently drag the crosshair down (on the windshield) right before he clock then the result will be padded up a bit due to the speed of the crosshair moving. If he drag it too fast, it may give a wrong result (bad for me). And the cops was too far away, a small angle in his action could cause a larger error. Correct me if I am wrong.

    About the cross hair, when pointing at an object a mile away, it may appear as wide as 1ft on that object (this is a fact).
    This can't be true when pointing at an closer object, say 10 feet away. Since if at 10 feet the crosshair is has the same size on the object (1ft in diameter), then the laser beam from the gun must be very wide angle (the lens are not 1ft in diameter obviously). and can not produce a 1ft spot 1 mile away.
    ML
    ... from the beginning.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by FHDave
    You are not going to win by arguing through those points.
    I am not going to use those point to argue directly that I was NOT speeding, but these facts can help me in my case. As to how I would keep it to myself till my court day. Thank you for your concern.
    ML
    ... from the beginning.

  6. #6
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    But were you speeding?

    Also, most newer ones account for movement etc. Or they wouldn't be used. I have 2 members of my family as traffic cops, but that is in the UK, technology may be different.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Houston Texas
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    your biggest mistake was to do a bench trial. the court will always believe the cops - its basically - guilty - next - guilty - next - guilty - next.


    you should never do a bench trial if you are going to push it. either pay the ticket - or get a lawyer and do a jury trial and go all the way.

    many times the cop will not show up and you can get it dismissed.

    also - it is highly unlikely what any court will take your appeal. you must have bonafide grounds for appeal that your verdict was improper. what are your grounds?
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  8. #8
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    Many times, if you attempt to talk to the officer before court, he or she may be willing to have the charges reduced depending on your driving record and whether you were polite or not.

    It's not a serious traffic violation (such as DWI) and can be lessened by trying the above.

  9. #9
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    In my city we dont even have to go to court to pay the fine. We have a concept called 'spot fine' to be paid to the cop. Most times you just have to pay half the fine as bribe and the cop will let you go.LOL. If you dont have money you have the option of paying in court the following day or go to a special ATM in the Police Commissioner's office where the payment can be made with a credit card or debit card or cash.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Philipf
    First of all, were you speeding?
    Originally posted by Philipf
    But were you speeding?
    ? ?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    NY, NY
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    Heh.. Rajan.. its better than what we have.
    These cops go around giving rediculous tickets, just so they can meet their quota...
    And not only the fine [thats not that bad] but we also get points on insurance.
    That raises the insurance costs.

    Funniest thing by far, was when we were in Russia on vacation.
    We got stopped for speeding and the cop wanted a bribe, we agreed on $50.. gave the guy a 100.. and he gave us CHANGE

  12. #12
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    Mar 2003
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    This info is coming from a friend who makes very good use of his "Fuzz Buster" Radar Detecter with passive jammer.

    For a Lazer gun, if that is what the cop used, it works like this. Lazer guns take 10 readings over the course of several seconds. The average reading of the 10 is the speed that gets written on the ticket. If you got hit by a lazer detector, you are pretty much out of luck because those things are dead on accurate.

    The best way to contest it is to have the gun tested. If it is more than 1-2% off (I believe that is the percentage) then the ticket can be thrown out due to incorrectly calibrated equiptment. This bit is true in Minnesota and other midwest states. I'm not sure about where you are though.

    FYI, 2 years ago, I was driving back up to Duluth on I35, I came around a curve, passing some people at 75mph (limit is 70). There was a cop parked in the median between the north/south lanes. He pulls out and pulls me over. I was thinking "Ok, your going to give me a ticket for doing 5mph over?". When he got to my door, he says "The reason I pulled you over today is because we are doing some speedwork with the Airplane, and they had you clocked doing 90mph, about 3 miles back."

    Yeah, they used a Lazer gun, the only kind that can be used from an airplane. No way I could fight it.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by nmluan
    If it's pointed at the front bumper, then when the cop accidently move the crosshair left or right or up or down, the result stay the same. Buf if he points it on the windshield near the roof and accidently drag the crosshair down (on the windshield) right before he clock then the result will be padded up a bit due to the speed of the crosshair moving. ...
    Umm, yeah right - IF the cop is moving the device at the speed of light!!!

    Dude, it's a laser! ( Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation). I'm pretty sure that unless your car was doing (Speed-of-light X 10) the light bouncing off the windshield would have reached the detector before you had really moved all that far.

    When I got my laser-measured ticket last week (90K in a 60K zone) I just said "I was going that fast, Whoa baby?" The cop repsected the fact I wasn't trying to weasel out of it and wrote it down as 10K over - $40 fine and no points.

    The real trick to getting out of speeding tickets is:

    -ask to see the actual reading on the device. More often than not it was erased long ago so they could nab more speeders. "The officer would not let me see my actual speed reading"

    -ask to examine the actual speed radar/laser unit - record make, model, serial number, etc. "The officer would not allow me to record the serial number of the unit in question"

    -write to the police department and ask for: the maintenance and calibration records of the speed device in question, and the training and certification records of the officer who operated the speed device. You will never receive them. "The police department would not release the calibration records for the device that allegedy recorded my excess speed."

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by nmluan
    Where do they *have to* aim (front bumper, windshield, roof or side door..?) for a correct speed clock?
    Really pretty much anywhere assuming you're moving toward the laser gun. The most common target, in states where cars have them, is your front license plate. It reflects light very efficiently, and is pretty easy to see an aim at. But generally if he misses that it's not going to make much difference -- he'll either get a good reading if he hits you, or he'll miss and won't get one at all (but usually will have plenty of time to try again).

    That's the big difference between a laser gun and a radar gun. With radar at an appreciable distance it's easy to hit more than one car with the beam -- in which case you'll tend to get the speed of the fastest car. The laser beam is much more narrow, and that won't happen.

    Generally a laser gun is easily accurately used at 1000 feet or more. It may be harder to aim at that distance, but then the beam is a little wider, too, than it is up close. And since it's harder for you to see the cop who's using it, 1000 feet is probably the most common distance they'll try for.
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  15. #15
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question396.htm
    has all the info you need

    unless your 100% sure you weren't speeding, i wouldn't go to argue with the court, because all the cop has to do is show the court the history or "receipt" on the gun (yes, they do have history on laser guns, kinda funny if you think about it)..

    just a suggestions, good luck

  16. #16
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    If a cop shows up to court, they will always tak teh cops word over yours.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by sightz
    The real trick to getting out of speeding tickets is:

    -ask to see the actual reading on the device. More often than not it was erased long ago so they could nab more speeders. "The officer would not let me see my actual speed reading"

    -ask to examine the actual speed radar/laser unit - record make, model, serial number, etc. "The officer would not allow me to record the serial number of the unit in question"

    -write to the police department and ask for: the maintenance and calibration records of the speed device in question, and the training and certification records of the officer who operated the speed device. You will never receive them. "The police department would not release the calibration records for the device that allegedy recorded my excess speed."
    This is the best advice so far, aside from not speeding in the first place.

    Seems I have been told this before... Something to the effect that the Lasers are very sensitive peices of equipment, and in constant need of costly maintenance. Many municipalities do not maintain them to manufacturer's specifications, due to that cost. This alone can be enough to get a case thrown out.

    Couple that with recommendations by the manufacturers for special training, which often is not given, and the case can become even stronger. Often, at worst, resulting in pleading the case to a lesser charge...
    You've got to accentuate the positive; Eliminate the negative
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  18. #18
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    Also, certain models of radar detectors/jammers also interfere with lazer guns. However, they are usually illegal.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by amish_geek
    Also, certain models of radar detectors/jammers also interfere with lazer guns.
    There may be some units that attempt to do both, but generally a radar jammer won't have any effect on a laser gun. Radar uses radio waves; laser uses light. A radar jammer is essentially a radio transmitter and has no effect on laser.

    The only possible equipment that might help against a laser gun is a diffuser that is mounted low on the car -- not anything in the windshield. A laser gun is aimed at the front license plate or headlights, or a chrome grill -- not at the windshield, which won't be as likely to reflect the beam.
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by JayC
    The only possible equipment that might help against a laser gun is a diffuser that is mounted low on the car
    Like those smoked license plate covers that you quite often see, but which also but render the plate nearly unreadable...

    I've often wondered why the police don't ticket people with those! I've held licenses in several states over the years, and it seems to me the plates are supposed to be readily readable from 50 feet, which they most definitely are not when covered by those.
    You've got to accentuate the positive; Eliminate the negative
    Latch on to the affirmative; Don't mess with Mister In-Between

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  21. #21
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    One sure way to beat the system. Become a traffic cop and everytime the judge will believe you

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by rrdega
    Like those smoked license plate covers that you quite often see, but which also but render the plate nearly unreadable...

    I've often wondered why the police don't ticket people with those!
    They regularly issue tickets for unreadable plates in Toronto. We have a toll highway that works by OCRing your license plate, so if it is unreadable you are in for a ticket.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by rrdega
    Like those smoked license plate covers that you quite often see, but which also but render the plate nearly unreadable...
    Nope, those won't work. Even if they do reduce reflection if a laser beam hits them, at 1000 feet a laser gun beam is about three feet wide. If a cop aims at your plate, he's still going to hit your headlights or grill... and again, with laser you don't an incorrect reading if you don't get a clean hit, you get no reading at all. So a cop knows he missed you and just hits again... if he aims at your plate and doesn't get a hit, it takes a split section to "recompose" on a headlight.

    Anyway, license covers or the sprays that arre supposed to do the same thing aren't effective. What I was saying may work is an active diffuser. May work, but I wouldn't count on it.
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  24. #24
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    One of the local pd's in our area has card readers in the squad car to pay your ticket on the spot.

    Originally posted by RajanUrs
    In my city we dont even have to go to court to pay the fine. We have a concept called 'spot fine' to be paid to the cop. Most times you just have to pay half the fine as bribe and the cop will let you go.LOL. If you dont have money you have the option of paying in court the following day or go to a special ATM in the Police Commissioner's office where the payment can be made with a credit card or debit card or cash.
    73's, Kim
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  25. #25
    Originally posted by JayC
    Anyway, license covers or the sprays that arre supposed to do the same thing aren't effective. What I was saying may work is an active diffuser. May work, but I wouldn't count on it.
    I think the License Plate covers though were made so the "automated" ones that take pictures can't get a picture of the plate, not to deter lasers..
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