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  1. #1

    Unhappy Can british students really be this stupid?

    D-Day 1899 and President Denzel Washington is leading liberation of New Zealand from the Nazi's
    By Chris Hasting and Julie Henry
    (Filed: 30/05/2004)

    It is 1899 and Denzel Washington, the American president, orders Anne Frank and her troops to storm the beaches of Nazi-occupied New Zealand.

    This may not be how you remember D-Day but for a worrying number of Britain's children this is the confused scenario they associate with the events of June 6, 1944.
    Pupils knew more about Saving Private Ryan than they did about the real events of the D-Day landings

    A survey of 1,309 pupils aged between 10 and 14 and from 24 different schools found alarming levels of ignorance about the invasion of Normandy 60 years ago.

    Only 28 per cent of primary and secondary pupils who sat the quiz last week were able to say that D-Day, involving the largest invasion force ever mounted, was the start of the Allied liberation of occupied western Europe.

    Many of them could only say that it was something to do with the Second World War - though 26 per cent were flummoxed by even that fact. Some thought it took place in the First World War, or was the day war broke out, the Blitz and even Remembrance Sunday.

    "It's a day when everyone remembers the dead who fought," said a 14-year-old girl at a north Devon secondary school. Only 16 per cent of 918 participating primary school children had the answer right.

    One 10-year-old in a Northamptonshire school thought it was the day the "Americans came to rescue the English". Another thought D-Day involved "the invasion of Portsmouth". Various dates for the assault were 1066, 1776, 1899 and 1948.

    Children also had great difficulty in naming Britain's war-time prime minister. Less than half of the overall sample and only 39 per cent of primary school children correctly identified him as Winston Churchill; a significant number opted for Margaret Thatcher or Tony Blair.

    Seventeen per cent of the sample and only 38 per cent of secondary school children identified Franklin D Roosevelt as the then President of the United States. Other candidates offered by both age groups were Denzel Washington (the Oscar-winning actor), George Washington, John F Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln and George W Bush. Some said simply: "George Bush's dad."

    Ignorance about the Allied leaders, however, contrasted sharply with knowledge about Adolf Hitler. Overall, 71 per cent of the sample and 64 per cent of primary school children were able correctly to name the Nazi leader. Only one in three could identify the broad location of D-Day, with a number saying that it happened in New Zealand, Skegness or Germany.

    Thirteen per cent could name two of the beaches involved, and only 10 per cent of the sample knew that Dwight D Eisenhower was the Supreme Allied Commander. Others thought that the invasion was led by Anne Frank, Private Ryan (the eponymous hero of the Steven Spielberg D-Day epic), or Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery, Eisenhower's deputy.

    The disclosure that school children know so little about D-Day comes a week before the country prepares to celebrate the anniversary and will again focus attention on what sort of history is being taught in schools.

    Even in those schools where the Second World War is taught, the emphasis is not necessarily on military events or even wartime leaders. One primary school teacher said: "We do study the Second World War but we do not tend to concentrate on particular military events or leaders. We look at issues that are relevant to children themselves. They learn about evacuation for instance, or the issuing of gas masks."

    Dr David Starkey, the historian and television broadcaster, said yesterday that the survey had uncovered what he called a climate of "unfortunately reduced horizons and expectations".

    It was "absurd", he said, that children were spending so much time discussing Hitler and Stalin to the detriment of everything else connected with the war.

    "There is nothing difficult about the concepts being discussed and no reason why a child of primary school age should not be able to understand."

    He said that he did not want to go back to a situation where history teaching was nothing but dates and battles, but he said he feared that the pendulum had swung too far in the other direction.

    "I think that trying to begin any subject by relating to a child's own experience is a useful tool. But education is about teaching children things they do not know."

    Chris Grayling, the shadow education minister, said: "These are really very recent events that have shaped the lives of all of us.

    "It is a real worry that so few children seem to know the basics of what happened during the Second World War. We must not allow this to continue."

    There were some exceptions to the general ignorance. One teacher at Great Addington Church of England Primary school in Northamptonshire was amazed to find that one of his pupils had scored 100 per cent in the test.

    He said: "I asked him how he knew material which we had not covered in school. He told me he had picked it up from a D-Day game he played on his computer."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...30/ndday30.xml

  2. #2
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    Seems like Discovery Channel's D-Day special will be coming at good time

  3. #3
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    sounds about right m8, the schools round here are more interested in not being seen as racist or biased in any way and refuse to teach english history.

  4. #4
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    It's not just British who don't know that information, it's also students in America who don't know it.

  5. #5
    Originally posted by phill2003
    sounds about right m8, the schools round here are more interested in not being seen as racist or biased in any way and refuse to teach english history.
    ohh so political correctness comes before learning?

  6. #6
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    ohh so political correctness comes before learning?

    In fact, in a lot of cases, yes it does. It may be wrong, but Britain must bend over backwards to suit everyone who lives there; and therefore if it isn't "in" with everyone, it doesn't usually happen. Glad your eyes are now open.

  7. #7
    So sad..... :-(

  8. #8
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    Sad, but undoubtedly true on both sides of the Atlantic I guess....

    Though I did get a chuckle out of this line:

    "....it was the day the "Americans came to rescue the English"."

    It's time to kick back, pop in a From Autumn to Ashes CD, and relax.....

  9. #9
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    I have trouble beliving that there are people this ignorant out there... but I know its true because my little sister is one of them. It's sad really.
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    That doesn't suprise me one bit. I've had class with people who didn't know where WW2 took place, or what it was about.

    Information like that isn't required knowledge to pass the class. These days you can pass school without having actually learned anything.

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    there are many american that think that Isreal is one of the US states :|

    it was a study made by some college students..

    there are dum people all around....

    man.. I saw this movie they made on interviews on hows Saddam, whats the Vice Predisent name and some other questions that normal person should know...

    the answers were UNBELIEVABLE?!?

    Dumness still is around... everywhere
    Testing 1.. Testing 1..2.. Testing 1..2..3...

  12. #12
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    i loved history in school and tought us pretty well in history
    just my english was never very good

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    saw on the tv the once a servay simular to this where they went round usa asking simple questions, think only 2% knew what the UK was (united Kingdom) couldnt stop laughing with the answers to some of the questions. true about schools in the uk, teach everything but british history, i went to a catholic school and in our religiuos edication class's they would teach everything about other religions but wouldnt teach about catholic as that would be discrimative. cazy this country is going. i seen that some people were ordered to take the st georges flag down they put on there house as it was seen as being rasist?
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  14. #14
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    Yeah, my neighbours went onto the street waving a flag of some sort and shouting something that sounded like "Allah rugadai sal manoor" but I'm probably completely deaf from too many years of sitting next to xxxxW PA systems at concerts.
    But when I went down the road twiddling (not waving) a St George's flag, I was told that it was offending local residents and that I was to give them my small (A5) flag.

    I'm sorry, but its our country, we have OUR flag, and we're not allowed to show our support for our queen, remember the members of our country who gave their lives in wars looking after another country. Its getting to the stage where its surprising that I see british people in my area.

  15. #15
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    i thought it was widely known that British kids are the dumbest kids in Europe . Just look at how they write in forums m8 :p.
    Maybe they should have mentioned Omaha or something, they would have known that from Medal Of Honor hehe.

    Seriously, i'm more interested in their knowledge of current events than of history.

  16. #16
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    » I'm sorry, but its our country, we have OUR flag, and we're not allowed to show our support for our queen, remember the members of our country who gave their lives in wars looking after another country.

    Exactly. I think that it is appalling how the ethnic minorities are able to go into our streets, and call us names, say that we deserve to die - yet when we want to show some respect to our Queen, we're not allowed to as it is apparently racist.... is Britain trying to give the word "racist" a new meaning?

    What's worse, is that we are not allowed to do all those things in their countries. I'm against the BNP, however they seem to be the only party who is interested in the rights of the real British people. If the British government are kind enough to allow people to immigrate, then those immigrants shouldn't bad mouth the British people, nor the British government.

    Britain is supposed to be a multicultural country with equal rights for all, yet day by day it seems to be favouring those ethnic minorities and shunning the real British people away.


    ---- NOTE ----
    I've used "ethnic minorities" and "real British people" in the wrong way here, however will add this bit to explain rather than rewrite what I just wrote. By ethnic minorities I mean those who don't class themselves as British yet have British citizenship, those muslims (and other religions) who come out in the streets and shout "Die Blair! Kill Blair!" and so on. By the real British people, I mean anyone who has British citizenship, yet also accepts themselves as being British - therefore not going out into the streets and chanting that we should die and so on, not saying that we cannot wave a British flag, not saying that we cannot pay respect to our queen.
    Hope this clears it up a bit.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Eric Cartman

    Seriously, i'm more interested in their knowledge of current events than of history.
    I agree with you that knowledge of current events is important but the lessons of history are just as important.

    To paraphrase an important saying: Those who do not learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

    It is important to know how historical events shaped the current world. The bad must not be allowed to be repeated.

  18. #18
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    » The bad must not be allowed to be repeated.

    Well, the pendulum does always swing back. Therefore it's impossible to prevent things from rehappening; of course though there are many who do not believe in the pendulum theory and therefore those people do believe that things can be prevented.

    I personally do believe in the pendulum theory, and therefore obviously do believe that it will swing back. In the future there will be another leader like Hitler - it obviously won't be him, and it may not even happen in Germany; but I believe it'll happen.

  19. #19
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    Whilst I do find it somewhat ignorant that these kids don't know basic facts about WW2, in their defence (at least the younger ones) if their schools are anything like the one I attended then they may of not been taught anything about WW2 by the age of 10 - 13, after all we have hundreds of years of history to work through before WW2 and in my school's case we didn't start on WW2 until I was about fourteen.

  20. #20
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    Its not so much that kids don't know the information...well, they don't, but they don't have anyone to teach them. The fact is, most schools simply don't teach it. I was never taught anything about ww1 or ww2 in school. Not even in highschool.

  21. #21
    Originally posted by Anjay
    » I'm sorry, but its our country, we have OUR flag, and we're not allowed to show our support for our queen, remember the members of our country who gave their lives in wars looking after another country.

    Exactly. I think that it is appalling how the ethnic minorities are able to go into our streets, and call us names, say that we deserve to die - yet when we want to show some respect to our Queen, we're not allowed to as it is apparently racist.... is Britain trying to give the word "racist" a new meaning?

    What's worse, is that we are not allowed to do all those things in their countries. I'm against the BNP, however they seem to be the only party who is interested in the rights of the real British people. If the British government are kind enough to allow people to immigrate, then those immigrants shouldn't bad mouth the British people, nor the British government.

    Britain is supposed to be a multicultural country with equal rights for all, yet day by day it seems to be favouring those ethnic minorities and shunning the real British people away.


    ---- NOTE ----
    I've used "ethnic minorities" and "real British people" in the wrong way here, however will add this bit to explain rather than rewrite what I just wrote. By ethnic minorities I mean those who don't class themselves as British yet have British citizenship, those muslims (and other religions) who come out in the streets and shout "Die Blair! Kill Blair!" and so on. By the real British people, I mean anyone who has British citizenship, yet also accepts themselves as being British - therefore not going out into the streets and chanting that we should die and so on, not saying that we cannot wave a British flag, not saying that we cannot pay respect to our queen.
    Hope this clears it up a bit.
    It's starting to become like that in the states.

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by adorno
    I agree with you that knowledge of current events is important but the lessons of history are just as important.

    To paraphrase an important saying: Those who do not learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

    It is important to know how historical events shaped the current world. The bad must not be allowed to be repeated.
    true , lessons from history are important. Although, it also depends on the sources, i wouldn't consider relying on old pravda to takes lessons from Stalin .

    Historical "facts" are less important in my opinion since it mostly has to do with memorizing (like a lot of school stuff) instead of learning. With current events you can actually learn (if you're interested in it), since you can check many sources, form opinions, see if your predictions come true , etc.
    Which i consider way more important than just knowing (memorizing) old stuff.

    Originally posted by Anjay
    [B]If the British government are kind enough to allow people to immigrate, then those immigrants shouldn't bad mouth the British people, nor the British government.
    That's typical totalitarian what you just said. Not making a destinction between government and people and not letting people criticize the government (political or cultural). It's completely ridiculous. If it's okay for what you consider a "born and raised Brit" to bad mouth the government or people, it's also okay for immigrants. Otherwise you are applying doublestandards, which are based on origin (which is basically racist). I have no problem with people who are racists aslong as they let me say that they are idiots.

  23. #23
    I have to admit, I was completly ignorant to the fact that things were like this for you British brothers and sisters of mine. It's almost comforting to know, as bad as that sounds. Because here in the U.S., things are definetly heading in that direction (the fact that everything is becoming politically correct that is). Luckily, it hasn't influenced our education system yet, atleast not in the places around the country I have lived. We learn all about many other countries, religons, races, etc.. it would really be a shame if it did, and I really feel for you guys.

    As for the knowing current events versus those of history, I feel they are equally important. To say that history is less important is completly ridiculous.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by bow-viper1

    As for the knowing current events versus those of history, I feel they are equally important. To say that history is less important is completly ridiculous.
    I consider learning more important than memorizing something someone else said or concluded. With current events you learn, with history you memorize someone elses concluses. Thus the history is less important for me.
    Like maybe in a couple hundred years or so the current Invasion of Iraq will go into history as some kind of humanitarian thing while it was about WMD.
    If you look how the recent "mainstream history" is with all the media available i wonder how "correct" things are that happened 1000 years ago. For all i know, i could have been memorizing lies in high school.
    Luckily i had a good history teacher (last years of high school) who devided her lessons into history and current events, since she believed that the history that's being written every second you live is also important.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Eric Cartman
    I consider learning more important than memorizing something someone else said or concluded. With current events you learn, with history you memorize someone elses concluses. Thus the history is less important for me.
    Like maybe in a couple hundred years or so the current Invasion of Iraq will go into history as some kind of humanitarian thing while it was about WMD.
    If you look how the recent "mainstream history" is with all the media available i wonder how "correct" things are that happened 1000 years ago. For all i know, i could have been memorizing lies in high school.
    Luckily i had a good history teacher (last years of high school) who devided her lessons into history and current events, since she believed that the history that's being written every second you live is also important.
    Hey Eric, give it up man.

    It seems important to you that you win an argument, and that nothing anybody else says matters. Knowledge of current events and about historical events are equally important. The argument about how history is open to interpretation applies to current events just as well. When a person attends a school system with liberal or conservative leanings, the presentation of history or current events may be tainted. But, if the facts, and results of events are presented, there is nothing to fear.

    Current events is but a small part of the truth. History has many more times the lessons that people need to learn. Current events without a historical perspective is useless.

    Committing to memory the important events and lessons of the past is very important to the management of current affairs. Memory is what people use for just about any field of science or human endeavor. Logic is used for interpretation of the facts or lessons which are absorbed into memory.

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