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  1. #1
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    Jun 2001
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    329

    Campaign to reduce Petrol prices in the UK

    Got this interesting email ...


    We are going to hit close to 89p a litre by the summer. We need to take
    some intelligent, united action.

    This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain day"
    campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just
    laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves
    by
    refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it
    was a
    problem for them.

    BUT, whoever thought of this idea has come up with a plan that can
    really
    work. Please read it and join in!

    Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to
    think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 77p -80p, we need to take
    aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not
    sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers
    need
    to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol
    come
    down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol!
    And
    we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:

    For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two
    biggest
    oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP. If they are not selling
    any
    petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce
    their
    prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an
    impact, we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol
    buyers.
    It's really simple to do!! Now, don't whimp out on me at this point...
    keep
    reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people! I
    am
    sending this note to a; lot of people. If each of you send it to at
    least
    ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more
    (300
    x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth
    generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!
    If
    those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each,
    then
    30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level
    further,
    you guessed it... .. THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! Again, all You have
    to
    do is send this to 10 people. That's all(and not buy at ESSO/BP). How
    long
    would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more
    people
    within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be
    contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't think you and I
    had
    that much potential, did you! Acting together we can make a difference.
    If
    this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. PLEASE HOLD OUT
    UNTIL
    THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE

    It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
    petrol
    at Shell, Tesco (not Tesco Express), Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p)Jet etc.
    i.e. boycott BP and Esso.

    Im up for it

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    UK
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    2,994
    Yeah, problem is I use my car every day and I'm about to run out of petrol

  3. #3
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    Jan 2004
    Location
    South East U.K.
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    1,295
    I won't find this difficult, I always use Tesco

  4. #4
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,030
    I don't reside in the UK, but prices like this are very common in the US. More than $2US for 1 gallon.
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  5. #5
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    May 2002
    Location
    UK
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    Your petrol prices in the US are by far cheaper than the uk.

    There are 3.7 litres to a gallon.

    Let's say that an average UK price per litre is 89p, that's 3.29 a gallon.

    At the current GBP to USD exchange rate, that mean in the UK we pay $5.97 a gallon.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    825
    we need to take
    aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not sellers.
    Which school of economics did they go to LOL!.

    You have a product that everyone wants, high demand but limited supply. That does not equal a buyers market. Anyone who thinks that buyers control the market in that situation is sadly deluding themselves.

    Also, why the boycot of BP and ESSO specifically and not Shell? Shell are one of the biggest suppliers as far as I know.

    Also, where exactly are these smaller garages buying their petrol from? Are they not buying it from one of the major suppliers anyway? It's not like they are drilling for it themselves are they?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    England
    Posts
    726

    Re: Campaign to reduce Petrol prices in the UK

    Originally posted by Cyrus
    Got this interesting email ...
    Whoever sent you that email doesn't know what they are talking about, petrol prices are high in Britain because the government slaps around 70 - 75% (depending on the type of fuel) tax on fuel, not because of the oil companies.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    1,838
    Originally posted by Rich2k
    Your petrol prices in the US are by far cheaper than the uk.

    There are 3.7 litres to a gallon.

    Let's say that an average UK price per litre is 89p, that's 3.29 a gallon.

    At the current GBP to USD exchange rate, that mean in the UK we pay $5.97 a gallon.
    maybe there buying oil in the US and selling it to people in canada or europe and thats the new thing on wall street (considering its all done under the table)
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  9. #9
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    Dec 2003
    Posts
    94
    Has anyone noticed that diesel is still relatively cheap?
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    London, Britannia.
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    3,077
    Yes taxes do have a big say in how expensive petrol is in Britain.

    Boycotts never really work as has been already stated, however the "protests" that were seen a few years back do seem ever more likely by the dy. According to leaders of the 2001 demonstrations they are fully prepared to act if prices continue to rise at the pumps; Well that is what i've read and heard. You never know what will be the catalyst that ultimately activates the protest groups again, they might already have a "red line" price of petrol in place.

    If the protests hit and the government failed to act, the Conservatives and Michael Howard would look even more likely to replace Labour and Tony Blair at 10 Downing Street and in government.

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  11. #11
    Originally posted by EthicalEpi
    Which school of economics did they go to LOL!.

    You have a product that everyone wants, high demand but limited supply. That does not equal a buyers market. Anyone who thinks that buyers control the market in that situation is sadly deluding themselves.

    Also, why the boycot of BP and ESSO specifically and not Shell? Shell are one of the biggest suppliers as far as I know.

    Also, where exactly are these smaller garages buying their petrol from? Are they not buying it from one of the major suppliers anyway? It's not like they are drilling for it themselves are they?
    Actually buyers always have and always will control the market. This guys idea of Boycotting 2 major suppliers is pretty much worthless as well. The most it would ever to would spawn a new company or tranfer of power in the market to smaller companies that would just grow and take their place..

    There is simply 1 and only 1 solution to lower gas prices with the rate that they are going. And thats to lower the demand period. Public Transportation, Carpooling and combining outtings, maybe save some money and make that twice a week run to the grocery store a once a week..

    Buyers make the market, and buyers can break the market, it's all just a matter of if they are willing to make the sacrificies..
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  12. #12
    This is not going to work, I am sure. If you boycott the major companies, so what? You will see high prices with the other companies too.

    Then, I don't think the major companies would decrease their prices. Its more of a supply-side effect.

    So, after this campaign, everything will be high.

    Unless, someone finds a huge source of oil.

  13. #13
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    Mar 2003
    Location
    California USA
    Posts
    13,294
    2.43 down the street per gallon for the cheap stuff
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  14. #14
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    Sep 2001
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    1,310
    All depends which country you live in. It's $ 5.73 / gallon here.

    75% of it are taxes.

  15. #15
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    Jun 2001
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    329
    interesting debate ... in the year 2000 people blocked out tankers and stuff and that DID actually bring the price downby around 5p per litere ... thats not a bad result I say

  16. #16
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    825
    Originally posted by Trifolic
    Actually buyers always have and always will control the market. This guys idea of Boycotting 2 major suppliers is pretty much worthless as well. The most it would ever to would spawn a new company or tranfer of power in the market to smaller companies that would just grow and take their place..
    If buyers controlled the market as you say, then I guess that's why the prices are as high as they are. People must be happy about that, so what's the fuss here? If they control the market and always have and always will, then these prices must be quite reasonable to the buyers presumably?

    To be pedantic about it ofcourse they have the right not to buy, but that isn't going to happen really as we're talking about fuel here which many would consider a necessity rather than a luxury.

    It's been a long time since I was at school and did economics, but isn't one of the first rules that you learn about the way capitalist economies work about the laws of supply and demand.

    high demand, limited supply = a sellers market.
    low demand, high supply = a buyers market.

    That's the way it almost always works. To be pedantic about it and say 'well the buyers controll the market because they don't have to buy' is fallacious, because in reality that very rarely happens, and certainly wouldn't where fuel or any other product that's considered a necessity and is in limited supply is concerned.

    There is simply 1 and only 1 solution to lower gas prices with the rate that they are going. And thats to lower the demand period. Public Transportation, Carpooling and combining outtings, maybe save some money and make that twice a week run to the grocery store a once a week..

    Buyers make the market, and buyers can break the market, it's all just a matter of if they are willing to make the sacrificies..
    Exactly my point. Do you think that's going to happen? That will only happen at the point where it becomes more attractive to do that because the prices of fuel are so high that it forces people to make those choices because they are priced out of the market.

    They'll continue to buy at whatever the price is until that point. It's only at that point that fuel prices might fall as then you'd have lower demand, in relation to supply which equals a buyers market using exactly the laws I mention above.

    Though in reality in the case of fuel even this won't hold true I'd imagine as we have a finite supply of oil so supply is likely to fall alongside the market balancing things out to some degree.

    I do agree with you that instead of attacking the petrol companies people should be putting their energy into lobbying the government to offer alternatives (better public transport, lower taxes and less regulation on biodiesel fuel etc).

    All of the alternatives to boycots that you mention would be a good thing in my mind. I just can't see it happening any time soon. Perhaps I'm a getting cynical in my old age

  17. #17
    Originally posted by EthicalEpi
    If buyers controlled the market as you say, then I guess that's why the prices are as high as they are. People must be happy about that, so what's the fuss here? If they control the market and always have and always will, then these prices must be quite reasonable to the buyers presumably?

    To be pedantic about it ofcourse they have the right not to buy, but that isn't going to happen really as we're talking about fuel here which many would consider a necessity rather than a luxury.
    I wouldn't say they were happy about the prices, but they obviously don't care about them. I know TONS of people that live in the city that don't even own a car, they have no need for one, they take trains, busses, and bikes. Its the suburbian SUV driving people that have made gas into a necessity.


    Originally posted by EthicalEpi

    It's been a long time since I was at school and did economics, but isn't one of the first rules that you learn about the way capitalist economies work about the laws of supply and demand.

    high demand, limited supply = a sellers market.
    low demand, high supply = a buyers market.

    That's the way it almost always works. To be pedantic about it and say 'well the buyers controll the market because they don't have to buy' is fallacious, because in reality that very rarely happens, and certainly wouldn't where fuel or any other product that's considered a necessity and is in limited supply is concerned.
    Yes that is very true, but all in all its the buyers which set both, not the sellers. The buyers set those economic laws when they allowed a luxury to become a necessity. The buyers can also change those laws by changing their lifestyles.. Which comes down to them controlling the market, not the sellers.

    Food
    Water
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    Those are the only necessities to live. Everything else is a luxury. Just an idea of how I view life.
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  18. #18
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    Public transportation is also much more efficient in most of Europe. Countries are usually much smaller than the US as well. Still, the prices over there are too high. If companies would start making more cars like the Volkswagen TDI cars which are diesel and get really good MPG the prices wouldnt be so bad.

  19. #19
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    UK
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    I wouldn't say they were happy about the prices, but they obviously don't care about them. I know TONS of people that live in the city that don't even own a car, they have no need for one, they take trains, busses, and bikes. Its the suburbian SUV driving people that have made gas into a necessity.
    Here in the UK I feel they do care about the prices. They even went so far as to try to boycot petrol stations, and interfere with the delivery of petrol to the garages a few years back. Ironically the first signs I personally saw of that was walking past petrol stations with cars lined up for miles down the road panick buying the stuff as soon as people realised what was going on. I'd imagine the garages found the whole thing quite amusing and were laughing all the way to the bank.

    I agree that for the majority of people having a car isn't a necessity, and I don't have a car myself being quite environmentally minded so I know that the average person can get along OK without them.

    For some I can see it is a necessity however. For people living out in the countryside where there are very poor (or non-existant) public transport links, or businesses etc. For those people having access to reasonably priced fuel is necessary to a great degree. For the majority I'm not sure that's the case though, but most of them would view it as such and perception is what's important here because it's that perception of it being a necessity that's why they don't just give up their cars and start using the alternative methods of transport that might be available to them.

    Yes that is very true, but all in all its the buyers which set both, not the sellers. The buyers set those economic laws when they allowed a luxury to become a necessity. The buyers can also change those laws by changing their lifestyles..
    I do understand what you're saying but I think it's a simplistic way of looking at it. The telling point is your last one. Buyers can influence the market price by changing their lifestyle, but most of them aren't going to do that out of choice. They'll generally cary on using petrol until they can simply no longer afford it. Only at that point will they decide to change their mode of transport or look for alternatives. This doesn't mean that they're in charge of the market however, because if they were then they'd probably want to opt to lower the prices before it got to the point that they couldn't afford it (as is evidenced by this boycotting idea which is doomed to failure imho).

    What would usually happen is that the market will change on its own from sellers market to a buyers market simply due to an increasing number of people being priced out of it, resulting in lower demand and higher supply then ultimately the lowering of prices. Or at least that would usually happen BUT (and this is an important BUT) in the case of fuel that's derived from oil it probably won't imho as supply will fall over the coming years and it's a nice tax earner for the government aswell.

    Food
    Water
    Shelter

    Those are the only necessities to live. Everything else is a luxury. Just an idea of how I view life.
    I view things in much the same way myself, but the majority of people don't unfortunately. If they did the world would be a better place imho

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