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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Space News :: There could be "life" existing on Venus according to reports...

    Article extract >>

    There could be life on the planet Venus, US scientists have concluded in a report in the journal Astrobiology.
    The existence of life on the planet's oven-hot surface is unimaginable.

    But microbes could survive and reproduce, experts say, floating in the thick, cloudy atmosphere, protected by a sunscreen of sulphur compounds.

    Scientists have even submitted a proposal for a Nasa space mission to sample the clouds and attempt to return any presumed Venusians to Earth.

    One lifeform's deadly radiation may be another lifeform's lunch

    David Grinspoon, South West Research Institute in Colorado
    "Venus is really a hellish place," said Professor Andrew Ingersoll, of the California Institute of Technology.

    "If you could get through the sulphuric acid clouds down to the surface of Venus you'd find it was hotter than an oven. You could melt lead at the surface of Venus and there'd be no water."

    But it was not always like that. Earth and Venus are in many ways sister planets.

    "Current theories suggest that Venus and the Earth may have started out alike. There might have been a lot of water on Venus and there might have been a lot of carbon dioxide on Earth," Professor Ingersoll explained.

    But all that was to change. On Earth, life in the oceans took in carbon dioxide and turned it into limestone. On Venus, 30% closer to the Sun, any oceans boiled away and the water vapour added to the runaway greenhouse effect.

    Venus became our planet's ugly sister. Its make-over, which occurred billions of years ago, has left a surface where the pressure is crushing.

    Arrested development

    But, according to Louis Irwin of the University of Texas at El Paso, the changes on Venus may have been slow. "It may well have been Earth-like long enough for life to either emerge or be transported there," he said.

    End extract <<

    For more info :: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3746583.stm

    This is very interesting newsw, i am pretty sure that there is an ESA mission being prepared for the planet at the turn of the decade [hopefully they'll take this into account] and with a NASA one we'd stand a good chance of proving this theory one way or the other. Well as far as i am concerned, there should be more missions planned and human space flight/automated craft and tech researched with even more vigour.

    Opinions?? Comments??

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  2. #2
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    Re: Space News :: There could be "life" existing on Venus according to reports...

    Interesting, but in my opinion we should focus on helping life here on earth before investing billions in searching for life on mars/venus. There are a lot of poor people on earth and until every single one of them has three meals a day then all of this research is a waste.
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  3. #3
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    Well if they were to bring back bacteria, and other living things from other planets, I would sure hope they would have something built like the space station where they can study it first, for all we know what they bring back could be deadly enough to kill off life on Earth.

  4. #4
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    Perfect scenario for a movie (I'm sure it's been done), I see the preview "Humans thought invaders would be an advanced life-form instead a microscopic...."


    Originally posted by adminME
    Well if they were to bring back bacteria, and other living things from other planets, I would sure hope they would have something built like the space station where they can study it first, for all we know what they bring back could be deadly enough to kill off life on Earth.
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  5. #5
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    Yup!


    I would be pretty weary of bringing such lifeforms to Earth though before they were tested.....you never know....

  6. #6
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    Man this is fascinating! Its like we're living in a SciFi movie these days!
    We've discovered so many new things its hard to tell what is a "life form".

    One lifeform's deadly radiation may be another lifeform's lunch
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  7. #7
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    jpabboud, i understand your concerns although i can't agree with your opinion on space flight and research, if any one thing runs through humankind whether now or 50,000 years in the past, it is to advance our themselves; what would you have us do, close down Space Program's the world over and delay progress for decades if not centuries?? I would counter that we can do both.

    adminME and others, i am sure that all necessary quarantine protocols will be put in place and i would say that for financial as well as practical reasons any initial analysis would take place on bard the ISS or International Space Station. Do also remember that if there was life of some form in the clouds of Venus, it would be used to totally different conditions to thoses on Earth [temperature and the Sulphurous atmosphere for one] so i don't see them as a threat to Earth but i'm no expert so i could be wrong.

    Also i think that with your concerns you're forgetting what the discovery of such organisms would represent; we would now possess irrefutable evidence of alien life in the Universe, we would know that we're not alone [not that i believe that we are alone of course, more the oppisite but anyway].

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  8. #8
    F*** them. I agree with jpabboud, until everyone on Earth is fit and healthy screw the other planets, concentrate on fixing ours. Some people have their priorities all messed up.
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  9. #9
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    I think those who say we shouldn't be doing any space research are quite naive and really need to look around a little more, plus they would do well to watch The Science Channel on Tuesdays during their space programs to learn some quite compelling arguments for going to space.

    The main one is that the planet we live on is NOT eternal, in fact we figure it is at least 1/2 way through its lifespan. We're learning that stars have lifespans and do indeed live and die just like us, only on much longer time scales.

    Granted we do have a bit of time to figure a way off our rocky homeworld before it burns up, but before it burns up it is quite likely the enviroment will change due to changes in the sun, it gets about 10% brighter every 1billion years moving the "habitable zone" with it, the current lifeforms on earth will NOT survive long once our homeworld becomes too hot.

    Instead of calling for an end to space research so we can feed the starving here at home I think a better thing to call for is the end of military spending which by far outdoes space spending. If we poured the kind of money that we spend on killing each other into going to Mars we would likely already have colonies there.
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  10. #10
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    Here's how I see it, right now say 1 billion out of 6 on earth have some sort of education and even less have "advanced" education.. this isn't because the 5/6 billion don't want.. they just don't have access to an education, what if we could eradicate world hunger ? Those people could then concentrate on education bringing in way more scientists/engineers and leading to a lot of new discoveries.

    Think about it.. right now I'm giving you a figure 250 million have some sort of advanced education in science and the 5750 million others are either working in a non-scientic domain or have no education, now all the new discoveries are done by those 250.. what if we could make it 1000 million instead of 250 million? 4 times more scientists improving our chances of discovering cures/technologies.



    Originally posted by Critic
    jpabboud, i understand your concerns although i can't agree with your opinion on space flight and research, if any one thing runs through humankind whether now or 50,000 years in the past, it is to advance our themselves; what would you have us do, close down Space Program's the world over and delay progress for decades if not centuries?? I would counter that we can do both.

    adminME and others, i am sure that all necessary quarantine protocols will be put in place and i would say that for financial as well as practical reasons any initial analysis would take place on bard the ISS or International Space Station. Do also remember that if there was life of some form in the clouds of Venus, it would be used to totally different conditions to thoses on Earth [temperature and the Sulphurous atmosphere for one] so i don't see them as a threat to Earth but i'm no expert so i could be wrong.

    Also i think that with your concerns you're forgetting what the discovery of such organisms would represent; we would now possess irrefutable evidence of alien life in the Universe, we would know that we're not alone [not that i believe that we are alone of course, more the oppisite but anyway].

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    Here's how I see it, right now say 1 billion out of 6 on earth have some sort of education and even less have "advanced" education.. this isn't because the 5/6 billion don't want.. they just don't have access to an education, what if we could eradicate world hunger ? Those people could then concentrate on education bringing in way more scientists/engineers and leading to a lot of new discoveries.

    Think about it.. right now I'm giving you a figure 250 million have some sort of advanced education in science and the 5750 million others are either working in a non-scientic domain or have no education, now all the new discoveries are done by those 250.. what if we could make it 1000 million instead of 250 million? 4 times more scientists improving our chances of discovering cures/technologies.
    I think you'd better re-think your figures... More than half of the world's population has a high-school education.

    And, believe it or not, some people do not carry the mental capacity to be an innovative scientist, let alone a scientist.

  12. #12
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    adminME and others, i am sure that all necessary quarantine protocols will be put in place and i would say that for financial as well as practical reasons any initial analysis would take place on bard the ISS or International Space Station. Do also remember that if there was life of some form in the clouds of Venus, it would be used to totally different conditions to thoses on Earth [temperature and the Sulphurous atmosphere for one] so i don't see them as a threat to Earth but i'm no expert so i could be wrong.

    We don't know what any of this can do, even the experts dont, how do we know these particles or whatever you want to call them couldnt get through any quarantained room? We dont know at all, how do we know these things couldnt go through steel? There is so many possibilities and there is no way for us to be sure.

  13. #13
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    reminds me of species...

    I think number 2 even had a spaceman who caught some strange microbes on his spacesuit. Though I don't remember the film as well as number one.
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  14. #14
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    I use those as an example (but yes looks like I'm way off) anyway you get the idea. I think with a good education system any non-handicapped person can become a scientist.. I'm not talking about an Einstein here just a normal scientist.




    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    I think you'd better re-think your figures... More than half of the world's population has a high-school education.

    And, believe it or not, some people do not carry the mental capacity to be an innovative scientist, let alone a scientist.
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    I use those as an example (but yes looks like I'm way off) anyway you get the idea. I think with a good education system any non-handicapped person can become a scientist.. I'm not talking about an Einstein here just a normal scientist.
    Then, what is the definition of a scientist if this were to happen? Mediocre-intelligence people sitting around and re-inventing the wheel?

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    I love science/space but with our current "primitive" technology we're going no where, until a genius discovers a way to travel at the speed of light or faster. This research can be done on earth right now and at relatively low cost compared to the billions it takes to send a probe to mars/venus and collect samples.


    Originally posted by Dynanet
    I think those who say we shouldn't be doing any space research are quite naive and really need to look around a little more, plus they would do well to watch The Science Channel on Tuesdays during their space programs to learn some quite compelling arguments for going to space.
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  17. #17
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    Well a chemist, doctor, engineer anything related to science. Not all of them are going to make discoveries but one discovery leads to an other and the more people searching the more are the chances we'll make big discoveries.

    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    Then, what is the definition of a scientist if this were to happen? Mediocre-intelligence people sitting around and re-inventing the wheel?
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by jpabboud
    Well a chemist, doctor, engineer anything related to science. Not all of them are going to make discoveries but one discovery leads to an other and the more people searching the more are the chances we'll make big discoveries.
    &nbsp;

    There are many people who no matter what environment/education they receive, will not be capable of being a scientist. We have millions who already receive a good education and do not become scientists.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by jpabboud
    I love science/space but with our current "primitive" technology we're going no where, until a genius discovers a way to travel at the speed of light or faster. This research can be done on earth right now and at relatively low cost compared to the billions it takes to send a probe to mars/venus and collect samples.
    Some of the research can be done on earth, but not all of it. We will have to take baby steps to get to that higher technology and a lot of it will have to be tested in space as well, for practical as well as safety reasons.

    We send probes to other worlds to learn, we can't learn without doing that, we need to know what is out there, we need to answer questions we have. The "cost" is mute I feel, how much is the continued existence of the human race worth? Personally I don't put a price tag on it because if we don't do anything but sit here then we're destined to go the way of the dinosaurs anyway.

    Having all your eggs in one basket doesn't sit well, before we figure out FTL travel (if it is possible at all) we can explore our own local system, we can put stations on the Moon and Mars which would at least give us some hope should earth have a sudden accident or something. Heck some of the future experiments we'll need to do would likely be better done offworld anyway.
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by jpabboud
    Here's how I see it, right now say 1 billion out of 6 on earth have some sort of education and even less have "advanced" education.. this isn't because the 5/6 billion don't want.. they just don't have access to an education, what if we could eradicate world hunger ? Those people could then concentrate on education bringing in way more scientists/engineers and leading to a lot of new discoveries.

    Think about it.. right now I'm giving you a figure 250 million have some sort of advanced education in science and the 5750 million others are either working in a non-scientic domain or have no education, now all the new discoveries are done by those 250.. what if we could make it 1000 million instead of 250 million? 4 times more scientists improving our chances of discovering cures/technologies.
    So you'd have ALL space exploration and research stoped if it did not take place on the ground?

    Continued space exploration and research is vital for the advancement of humankind and its survival. If we simply withdrew from active exploration and research "in actual space" we would jeapordise the safety of all on this planet. We know that there have been asteroid and comet impacts in the past and the chances are they'll happen again, what would we have at our dispsal to firstly detect an object in the long term and then prevent it from impacting Earth if we took your route??

    Say an asteroid like the one that wiped out the dinosours got came into our orbit and it was too late to do anything, what would our epotaph read "Ah, that should do it, i think everything is just about perfect now, hey what's that......OH ****", IMPACT" goodnight humankind.

    Then what about the scientific and medical advancement as a result of things like the ISS, Mir etc

    It is human nature to expand our knowledge of what is around us whether through probes or first hand experience, i would class it as criminal to pull back from where we are now and where we're going in terms of our approach to Space, we don't need another "dark ages" for human science and engineering.

    You have only but good intentions with what you say i am sure but i think you're targeting the wrong idea and people with your criticism and views, it is not the Space Program's of the more developed nations who are your enemy but domestic problems at the source and that is whole other kettle of fish completely.

    Originally posted by adminME
    We don't know what any of this can do, even the experts dont, how do we know these particles or whatever you want to call them couldnt get through any quarantained room? We dont know at all, how do we know these things couldnt go through steel? There is so many possibilities and there is no way for us to be sure.
    The likelyhood is that as i explained these would be [if they exist] organisms from a highly Sulphurous environment, from what we know they could not survive on Earth anymore than we could on Venus.

    And to tackle something runing through your post, now we don't know for sure but if we'd thought like that when it comes to scientific and technological advancement and progress, where would we be now. Sometimes risks are worth taking and there is really only one way to fin out isn't there.

    pmoduk2, i and others who share ny approach toward what Space can do for us have our priorities all wrong? you contradict yourself in your post, you want everyone fit and healthy but how can you ignore what space based research has done for us in that area? We should not stand still for such a cause if we can move forward and tackle them at the same time.

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  21. #21
    You mean to say you would rather spend 1 billion US $ on a space shuttle flight thingy, probably more, that potentially could bring back some sort of life form, rather than feeding and / or building a decent living for 3rd world, and poverty within our own countries.

    Yes, I do think people have their priorities messed up, how many people put 1 billion $ US into poverty, 'but don't worry lets give NASA the money for a shuttle'. I'm not saying we shouldn't go to space, I'm saying if they're gonna throw 1billion at a shuttle that could return jack sh*t, then at least sort out our own countries on our home planet. No point in moving homes to another planet in however many years if we're not strong enough to make the journey.

    I maybe contradictory to my own statements, I have a hard time explaining my opinions an beliefs, but at the end of the day I see it like this; You cannot go to space if you don't have the people fit and healthy to go there, lets remember space travel does weaken the body and bones.
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by pmoduk2
    You mean to say you would rather spend 1 billion US $ on a space shuttle flight thingy, probably more, that potentially could bring back some sort of life form, rather than feeding and / or building a decent living for 3rd world, and poverty within our own countries.

    Yes, I do think people have their priorities messed up, how many people put 1 billion $ US into poverty, 'but don't worry lets give NASA the money for a shuttle'. I'm not saying we shouldn't go to space, I'm saying if they're gonna throw 1billion at a shuttle that could return jack sh*t, then at least sort out our own countries on our home planet. No point in moving homes to another planet in however many years if we're not strong enough to make the journey.

    I maybe contradictory to my own statements, I have a hard time explaining my opinions an beliefs, but at the end of the day I see it like this; You cannot go to space if you don't have the people fit and healthy to go there, lets remember space travel does weaken the body and bones.
    In reference to what you are saying you originally stated this >>

    "F*** them. I agree with jpabboud, until everyone on Earth is fit and healthy screw the other planets, concentrate on fixing ours. Some people have their priorities all messed up."

    What i am saying to you is that you're moaning at the wrong people, your beef is not with NASA or ESA or whoever, if you've got a problem with the amount of money being diverted toward the rd world you should criticise the department responsible for International Development or the UN.

    I'll put to you the same possible event that i posted earlier >>

    We know that there have been asteroid and comet impacts in the past and the chances are they'll happen again, what would we have at our dispsal to firstly detect an object in the long term and then prevent it from impacting Earth if we took your route??

    Say an asteroid like the one that wiped out the dinosours got came into our orbit and it was too late to do anything, what would our epotaph read "Ah, that should do it, i think everything is just about perfect now, hey what's that......OH ****", IMPACT" goodnight humankind.
    We can help these people at the same time as advancing our knowledge of the universe and human space flight and other research and exploration. One doesnot and should not stop for the other.

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    Even if we "could" feed and educate every human on earth as they should be, it would be very short lived. Once they are fed and healthy, they would all have kids, and pit the world into drastic poverty and over population.

    The answer is to educate them NOT to have kids or NOT to have sex? Good idea, let's start with whoever says that. I have a sharp steak knife handy. We can make sure people dont become part of the probl;em by having more kids.

    No matter what you do, there will always be the hungry and suffering. That's the real world buddy, it even happens in nature. One group of bacteria (people) may be stronger than the other of the same species, they dont go feeding them so they can help kill off their host (earth) faster. Sorry to have such a harsh view of things, but the more you feed the starving, the more they reproduce.

    Now, put birth control in the food, and I'm all for feeding them all they want. Then they can have sex all they want without their 5 seconds of joy becoming a lifelong burden to the rest of the world.

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    jpabboud, i understand your concerns although i can't agree with your opinion on space flight and research, if any one thing runs through humankind whether now or 50,000 years in the past, it is to advance our themselves; what would you have us do, close down Space Program's the world over and delay progress for decades if not centuries?? I would counter that we can do both.
    I couldn't agree more with you. People always question these space programs and write them off as crazy and wasteful. However, where has a lot of our technology come from? The frontiers of the times. The need for one thing has always sparked inventors and nothing has changed. In order for you to advance as a civilization, you must push that envelope because new technologies will be developed.

    On this issue I find it quite interesting. With my Christian beliefs you'd think I would tend to disbelieve such situations, but I strongly believe life is out there. This universe is just too big for us only even if it is just a micro species or the like.

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    I don't question all the space program, what I'm saying is there are more important things to do then to know if there are microbes on Venus?

    Say we do find life outside Earth (which almost everyone is 100% sure it must exist) what practical use will it have here on earth for us? This is I'm afraid an other show-off for the US, nothing more just like the Mars Rovers. When we send space shuttles (this is the biggest joke ever considering how expensive it is compared to Russian vehicules) the research can benefit from it but bringing back pictures from Mars at a cost of 1 billion is an absolute waste.

    We all like to dream about traveling to other planets but this isn't happening, I'm a big Star Trek fan but we have to be realistic.. we can barely land a probe on Mars and you want us to send humans there ? What about radiation and the effects of weightlessness on the body ? Until we have a solution I think we should invest in orbital space flights but nothing more. Americans should design a new spacecraft and while doing it use Russian spacecraft to go up there, it's safer and much cheaper then the space shuttle. Of course NASA won't ever do that for national prestige.


    Originally posted by CrazyTech
    I couldn't agree more with you. People always question these space programs and write them off as crazy and wasteful. However, where has a lot of our technology come from? The frontiers of the times. The need for one thing has always sparked inventors and nothing has changed. In order for you to advance as a civilization, you must push that envelope because new technologies will be developed.

    On this issue I find it quite interesting. With my Christian beliefs you'd think I would tend to disbelieve such situations, but I strongly believe life is out there. This universe is just too big for us only even if it is just a micro species or the like.
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    We're going to find some germs on some rock out there and the government will say these billions of dollars are worth it. I think any life worth knowing would have come to us by now.. if we find them, they probably knew about us beforehand and had been avoiding our species like a plague.
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