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  1. #26
    nevertheless never addressed the subject of faith itself.

    my 2 kopecks,
    paul
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  2. #27
    Originally posted by rusko
    nevertheless never addressed the subject of faith itself.
    Faith is a girl I used to date.. Open and shut case there...
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  3. #28
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    I knew from the beginning where the discussion was heading. But the arguments are dumb and convoluted. I don't even know where to begin because the arguments aren't really arguments. They are just convoluted thoughts.

    1. "Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold."

    First of all, you are trying to equate arbitruary measurements with exact measurements. Big mistake. The opposite of cold is hot, not heat. There is no opposite of heat. There are only measurements of heat. Hot and cold are arbitruary measurements and not exact measurements.

    Cold is NOT a word we use to describe the absense of heat. Cold is a word we use to describe something that is below what we considered normal temparature. If it is above normal temparature, then is Hot.

    How do you know if the water is hot? You feel it with one of your five senses. If there is no such thing as cold, then there isn't a thing called hot either. Nor is there warm, cool, or whatever.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as hot either, just measurements of heat?

    2. "Darkness is the absence of something."

    Same argument as above. The opposite of darkness is brightness. How do you know if the room is dark or bright? You use one of your senses. You see it with your eyes unless you are blind.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as brightness either, just measurements of light?

    3. "To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it."

    If I didn't think death is the opposite of life, then I would've flunk my English class and SAT. However, I do agree with you that death is the absence of life.

    4. "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?"

    Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over. Whoever told you that no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, must be lying to you.

    If you major in any biological science, then it's pretty hard not to observe the progress of evolution. The more complex the organism, the slowing the progress of evolution is. Evolution is observed and proven.

    I think you might be thinking about how humans evolved and that we evolve from monkies. That we have not proven and observe.

    5. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? ... So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir."

    WTF? Wait, let me repeat again. WTF are you talking about? How do we know if the Professor has a brain? Um... based on science maybe? Maybe cause we know if the Professor doesn't have a brain, he wouldn't be able to walk, talk, or think?

    Here is a short proof:

    All humans need a brain to be able to walk, talk, or think.
    Professor can walk, talk, and think.
    Thus professor must have a brain.




    Whoever wrote this crap doesn't know much about science. I said crap, not because it was arguing for the existence of God, but because the arguments are so flawed and stupid.

  4. #29
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    . . . Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over.
    Macro evolution or micro evolution?

  5. #30
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    I knew from the beginning where the discussion was heading. But the arguments are dumb and convoluted. I don't even know where to begin because the arguments aren't really arguments. They are just convoluted thoughts.

    1. "Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold."

    First of all, you are trying to equate arbitruary measurements with exact measurements. Big mistake. The opposite of cold is hot, not heat. There is no opposite of heat. There are only measurements of heat. Hot and cold are arbitruary measurements and not exact measurements.

    Cold is NOT a word we use to describe the absense of heat. Cold is a word we use to describe something that is below what we considered normal temparature. If it is above normal temparature, then is Hot.

    How do you know if the water is hot? You feel it with one of your five senses. If there is no such thing as cold, then there isn't a thing called hot either. Nor is there warm, cool, or whatever.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as hot either, just measurements of heat?

    2. "Darkness is the absence of something."

    Same argument as above. The opposite of darkness is brightness. How do you know if the room is dark or bright? You use one of your senses. You see it with your eyes unless you are blind.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as brightness either, just measurements of light?

    3. "To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it."

    If I didn't think death is the opposite of life, then I would've flunk my English class and SAT. However, I do agree with you that death is the absence of life.

    4. "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?"

    Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over. Whoever told you that no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, must be lying to you.

    If you major in any biological science, then it's pretty hard not to observe the progress of evolution. The more complex the organism, the slowing the progress of evolution is. Evolution is observed and proven.

    I think you might be thinking about how humans evolved and that we evolve from monkies. That we have not proven and observe.

    5. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? ... So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir."

    WTF? Wait, let me repeat again. WTF are you talking about? How do we know if the Professor has a brain? Um... based on science maybe? Maybe cause we know if the Professor doesn't have a brain, he wouldn't be able to walk, talk, or think?

    Here is a short proof:

    All humans need a brain to be able to walk, talk, or think.
    Professor can walk, talk, and think.
    Thus professor must have a brain.




    Whoever wrote this crap doesn't know much about science. I said crap, not because it was arguing for the existence of God, but because the arguments are so flawed and stupid.
    haha nice!

  6. #31
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    hmmm.... Dude things are going right way hope it come up with a decent solution. Dude time to your input here

  7. #32
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    Man, I'm reading it a dozen times and the argument The Dude posted still doesn't make sense.

    If you want to argue for the existence of God, this would have been better.

    How do you know if a room is dark or bright? With one of your senses right? The sense of sight.

    How do you know if the cup of water is hot or cold? With one of your senses right? To sense of feel.

    How many senses do you have? Five right?

    Now, what if you lost one of your senses, say your sense of sight. How do you know if the room is dark or bright? Others who are able to see will know if the room is bright or dark. You can't. You just need to have faith when your friend tells you that the room is bright.

    Just because you can't sense God, doesn't mean He/She does not exist. You just can't sense it.


    Um... yeah, I think that was the gist of the argument that The Dude posted. You need to have Faith in what the Church tells you even though you can't sense God.

    Well, have fun with the argument.

  8. #33
    I love it!

    Great job The Dude

  9. #34
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    Well, I reckon the title of the thread is actually beside the point.

    Believers do not need any argument. Faith in god is not based on any evidence or proofs 'he' has given up. You either beleive or you do not.

    That is why it is always pointless to argue against someones belief in a god, I think.

  10. #35
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    . . . Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over.
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Macro evolution or micro evolution?

  11. #36
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    Macro evolution, micro evolution, evolution, whatever. Doesn't matter. That's besides the point.

    Disapproving the theory of evolution doesn't prove the existence of God(s). I'm not turning this thread into a discussion about evolution. There are dozens of threads about it already.

    There are lots of Gods out their to believe in. I'm just providing arguments for the possible existence of God(s) in general, not the Christian God.

  12. #37
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    Macro evolution, micro evolution, evolution, whatever. Doesn't matter. That's besides the point . . .
    So you would go on public record and state that Macro "evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over." ?

    Just curious.

  13. #38
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    Why don't you create your own thread called "Creationist versus Evolutionist", so then we can have a discussion about it.

  14. #39
    See this is the thing... You CAN'T PROVE IF GOD EXIST .. I wish people would stop trying to prove it.

    Whatever people want to say can say it.. It seems no one think theres a more powerful being than a human. It seems everyone thinks a God is unreal and no such thing exists. Oh well, thats you.

    I tend to believe what I believe and no one can sway my belief. I see some of your comments as a test of my faith. Negative comments left and right.. but You CAN'T PROVE IT

    For someone who said every bill is counted for... Here we go again.. You think its highly impossible for someone who created the universe and us to do something like take a 5 dollar bill... Boy.


    Believe what you guys believe. Im not here to try to make you believers. I posted what I said.


    So, just like Fatty said.. Its pointless to argue someone's belief in God. You will NEVER win.
    Money is the root of all evil. So if you don't want to go crazy, give it all to me

  15. #40
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    Why don't you create your own thread called "Creationist versus Evolutionist", so then we can have a discussion about it.
    You opened the door.

    I just wanted to know if you were referring to Macro evolution or Micro evolution, in your statement - "Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over."

    Did you mean Macro evolution? Yes or no.

  16. #41
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    I meant evolution. Never did I mention macro-evolution or micro-evolution. That's a creationist idea. Didn't realize we were talking about Creationist.

  17. #42
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    So to you there is no difference between micro and macro evolution?

  18. #43
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    There is no God.

    Oh my God!, did I just say that!!!???


    Questions:

    If there is a God, why is he invisible to us all? Is he supernatural and why? If we were able to see, hear and touch him, would he be less awsome, benevolent, powerful? If we were created in his image and we were able to actually interact with him/her/it, would God stop being so magnificent? So, people need to have faith in the existence of God. Why just faith? If God is all powerful and he created good, then he also created the bad, right? If he is so benevolent, why do we have to beg (or pray) for anything? Why do we need to worship and praise him? Will it make any difference to him if we don't worship and praise and thank him. Is it right that we should thank him for everything good that happens in our lives, and at the same time try to be understanding when something bad happens? When bad happens, is it because it is part of the grander scheme of thngs?

    Seems to me that an all powerful God doesn't need to be endowed with characteristics and properties which properly describe human beings.


    JWise:
    When you went to church and donated your $5.00, did your mother or father or both go with you? If so, then think about how proud your mother and father were to see you donate. And they probably understood that you didn't have anything smaller to donate. Don't you think that they put that $5 bill in your room when you weren't looking? (Sorry if I spoiled a childhood memory).


    adorno

  19. #44
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    Originally posted by JWise
    See this is the thing... You CAN'T PROVE IF GOD EXIST .. I wish people would stop trying to prove it.
    Do you believe that earth is the only inhabited planet in the Universe with life?

  20. #45
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Do you believe that earth is the only inhabited planet in the Universe with life?
    Great Question

  21. #46
    Originally posted by adorno

    JWise:
    When you went to church and donated your $5.00, did your mother or father or both go with you? If so, then think about how proud your mother and father were to see you donate. And they probably understood that you didn't have anything smaller to donate. Don't you think that they put that $5 bill in your room when you weren't looking? (Sorry if I spoiled a childhood memory).

    adorno

    Nope, you didn't spoil it, cause what you said couldn't have been a possibility.

    1.) I was one of the first ones in the house. Before my mother
    2.) She didn't know I put all my money in there.
    3.) If she did, she wouldn't have gave me 5 back.. She isn't that type of lady.

    So, I know your whole trying to spoil my childhood thing was just an attempt to try and get me to test my belief in God. Sorry, failed attempt.


    Do you believe that earth is the only inhabited planet in the Universe with life?
    Nope.. I don't believe we are the only ones. I think 9 or however many planets they keep finding would be useless if only 1 obtained life. I mean, we can go through life thinking theres no being powerful than us, but I believe that to be thick headed. Im sure theres something out there thats smarter and all that.
    Money is the root of all evil. So if you don't want to go crazy, give it all to me

  22. #47
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    Originally posted by JWise
    . . . Nope.. I don't believe we are the only ones . . .
    Can you proove your belief?

  23. #48
    Nope.. Thats why its called a belief Aussay!

    Like my belief in God.. You can't prove his existence, but I feel it. Nothing can change that. Its alot of things in life we can't prove, and if we try to prove every single thing it makes life even more boring.
    Money is the root of all evil. So if you don't want to go crazy, give it all to me

  24. #49
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    Originally posted by JWise
    Nope, you didn't spoil it, cause what you said couldn't have been a possibility.

    1.) I was one of the first ones in the house. Before my mother
    2.) She didn't know I put all my money in there.
    3.) If she did, she wouldn't have gave me 5 back.. She isn't that type of lady.

    So, I know your whole trying to spoil my childhood thing was just an attempt to try and get me to test my belief in God. Sorry, failed attempt.
    Who me? I wouldn't even think about spoiling your childhood memories and changing your beliefs in God.

    But you need to have an open mind and question everything. Faith is not the only answer for what cannot be explained. Faith is an easy way out. But there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.

    What about the other questions in my last post? Have you ever pondered about the answers to some of those questions?

  25. #50
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    Originally posted by JWise
    Nope.. Thats why its called a belief Aussay!

    Like my belief in God.. You can't prove his existence, but I feel it. Nothing can change that. Its alot of things in life we can't prove, and if we try to prove every single thing it makes life even more boring.
    That's right. Many millions believe we're not alone in the universe, but none of them have solid evidence, nor have they seen such life forms (ok, some claim to etc ) but they believe in something that they have not seen, felt, heard etc. That's faith in action.

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