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  1. #1
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    An Argument for Believers

    -----: The Student



    An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

    He asks one of his new Religious students to stand and.....



    Professor: You are religious, aren't you, son?

    Student : Yes, sir.



    Prof: So you believe in God?

    Student : Absolutely, sir.



    Prof: Is God good?

    Student : Sure.



    Prof: Is God all-powerful?

    Student : Yes.

    Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?

    (Student is silent.)



    Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?

    Student :Yes.



    Prof: Is Satan good?

    Student : No.



    Prof: Where does Satan come from?

    Student : From...God...



    Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

    Student : Yes.



    Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. correct?

    Student : Yes.



    Prof: So who created evil?

    (Student does not answer.)



    Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

    Student :Yes, sir.



    Prof: So, who created them?

    (Student has no answer.)



    Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?

    Student : No, sir.



    Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

    Student : No , sir.



    Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

    Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.



    Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

    Student : Yes.



    Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

    Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.



    Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.



    Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

    Prof: Yes.



    Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

    Prof: Yes.



    Student : No sir. There isn't.

    (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)



    Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

    (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)



    Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

    Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?



    Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

    Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?



    Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

    Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?



    Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

    Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.



    Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

    (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)



    Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

    (The class is in uproar.)



    Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

    (The class breaks out into laughter.)



    Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

    (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)



    Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

    Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.



    Happiness keeps you sweet, Trials keep you strong, Sorrows keep you human, Failures keeps you humble, Success keeps you glowing, But only God Keeps you going!

    Interesting......

    The Dude

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  2. #2
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    very good
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  3. #3
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    Very good post. I liked his analogy, very fitting.

    Simon
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  4. #4
    You forgot the part where the professor asks if the student knew all the crap about god, or just believed what someone wrote in a book, Kinda like the professor read about evolution..
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  5. #5
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    I didnt expect it to turn around like it did. It was an interesting read.
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  6. #6
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    A very nice example of phycological theory too. Today most of us simply accept an answer as fact just because we cant find suitable reply for them. This will definately helpful for all to improve the ethicle argument power. Interested in more stuffs like that Dude. You provided a classic thing. its my own openion

  7. #7
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    I could see where that was gong from the begining. There are a couple of flaws though. While only a theory, there are more phisycal evidence supporting evolution, then existance of the God (ulness you are one of those who say something like "Do you see this keybord? That is the proof that there is a god."). Brain can be touched and pictured, and we have enough knowledge about it to be able to say it does exist.

    I have a question about faith. If i believe that King Kong is the only god, does my faith on its own proves that he indeed is a god? If I believe that all other gods but him are fake, can I respoect those believing in other gods ?

  8. #8
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    nice one, thanks for posting..
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by sasha
    I could see where that was gong from the begining. There are a couple of flaws though. While only a theory, there are more phisycal evidence supporting evolution, then existance of the God (ulness you are one of those who say something like "Do you see this keybord? That is the proof that there is a god."). Brain can be touched and pictured, and we have enough knowledge about it to be able to say it does exist.

    I have a question about faith. If i believe that King Kong is the only god, does my faith on its own proves that he indeed is a god? If I believe that all other gods but him are fake, can I respoect those believing in other gods ?
    little bit difference of openians The brain every one knows located in head everyone knows that. Right !!!! But to touch and feel brain you need to open the skull and then only you can see that

    My friend similarly to feel god you must raise your inner soul to that extent where you actually start believing the existance. I support this argument that you cannot deny the existance of God if you dont have enough proof of existance.

  10. #10
    Great post, TheDude! Thanks for sharing.

  11. #11
    very good!! i couldn't put it any better myself really. hehe.

  12. #12
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    Thank you all,YES it does say quite a bit...........

    The Dude

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  13. #13
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    Well you can never argue with faith. Religious faith is also different from the normal term. Since usually you have faith in something because of experience. Like I have faith that tonight my wife will bring me back a takeaway as she does every Friday.

    But if I have faith in god it is just based on my beliefs. No one can argue with them.

    Something like that anyway from Wittenstien...\-:

    Nice article, not sure about evolution though, even that monk monitored some evolutionary behavior with sweet pea flowsers back lord knows when, pardon the pun.

    Here is one too, if God is omnipotent and all powerful can he make a rock he cannot lift

    James

  14. #14
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    very nice post

  15. #15
    From seeing and hearing so many people who don't believe in God bash the people who do believe its mainly because of these things.


    The people who don't believe usually have reasons because things have gone wrong in their life, and they expect God to come down and change everything around to work for them.

    If your sick, you pray to God... You get even sicker. They blame it on God.

    See the thing we fail to see is.. Even if your not cured in life maybe your cured in the after life. Who knows.. No one can prove it. But, its faith that keeps us going. You have to believe. Someone had to create us, and I believe it was God.

    Scientists have jumped in the way of it all, by saying such things as God didn't create the planets and the universe, the Big Bang Did.. Whoa!!! Did they even come to think that God made that Big Bang.. Nope.


    Until I see evidence for myself about Man evolving from Monkeys and Apes I tend not to believe it. Even though we may have, God had something to do with it.


    Another thing is, people say MAN wrote the Bible, so MAN could change it around. Ever come to think about what if God DIDN'T ALLOW MAN TO DO THAT? Everyone who don't believe keep saying What If.. What If..

    People think when they Pray to God and ask for something their suspose to receive it right away.

    Let me tell you a quick story.

    In church one time, I had $5.00 . I was about 12 or 13. I wanted to give my 10 Percent. I didn't have change, so what I did is I put the whole $5.00 into the basket, KNOWING that God would see what I have done, and I didn't do it because I didn't have change, I did it because I believed.

    When I returned home, I went into my room, looked down and seen $5.00 .. Check this.. No one in the house claimed it. Who you think put it there
    Money is the root of all evil. So if you don't want to go crazy, give it all to me

  16. #16
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    I believe the universe is teeming with intelligent life forms, but I have no proof of that, yet I still believe it. To believe otherwise would be difficult and irrational, imo.

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    Get post, gets you thinking.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by JWise
    In church one time, I had $5.00 . I was about 12 or 13. I wanted to give my 10 Percent. I didn't have change, so what I did is I put the whole $5.00 into the basket, KNOWING that God would see what I have done, and I didn't do it because I didn't have change, I did it because I believed.

    When I returned home, I went into my room, looked down and seen $5.00 .. Check this.. No one in the house claimed it. Who you think put it there
    I didn't realize that God deals in US Currency. As every bill is serial numbered and accounted for, either God stole the money from someone else and gave it to you, took the same money out of the collection basket and gave it back to you (In which case, your donation was pointless, as it helped nobody but your spiritual 'ego'), or, and what I believe must be the case, God gave you counterfeit money.

    But hey, at least you got your five bucks back, and that's what matters, right?

  19. #19
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    That argument can go both ways.

  20. #20
    I've never really known what to believe. If I say "there is a god" then the question becomes how did he get there? Did someone create him? If so, who? And who created him? And so on.. Perhaps I'm simplifying things too much.

    Very interesting none-the-less.
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by JWise
    The people who don't believe usually have reasons because things have gone wrong in their life, and they expect God to come down and change everything around to work for them.

    If your sick, you pray to God... You get even sicker. They blame it on God.

    See the thing we fail to see is.. Even if your not cured in life maybe your cured in the after life. Who knows.. No one can prove it. But, its faith that keeps us going. You have to believe. Someone had to create us, and I believe it was God.
    You put "God" in your mind because you cannot grasp the existence of the universe and cannot come up with a "why are we here?" answer outside of the God theory.

    As an agnostic type I remain on the fence, while I do hold a belief that indeed the universe may be a creation I am not completely convinced of it, and if it is a creation I am quite certain whatever being created it has absolutely no interest in us little bags of mostly water running around on a rather small blue rock which circles a rather common type of star.

    You do realize that every single element in our body was created in a star right? The materials that burn in the sun are basically the same materials you are made of. Every atom in your body is directly derived from our home planet as well, when you are done with them they will return to the earth again and will be recycled back into nature.

    Until I see evidence for myself about Man evolving from Monkeys and Apes I tend not to believe it. Even though we may have, God had something to do with it.
    So you choose to ignore the evidence clearly in front of you now, right? Please share with me what differences you feel we, as earth bound mammalian creatures, have compared to the rest of the animal kingdom. Don't just bring up our thinking capacity, other creatures have that, other creatures have langauge, other creatures use tools, etc. You also can't use the "self aware" argument, we can't disprove other creatures we share the earth with aren't also self aware, mostly because we don't know how to speak to them.

    Why are we such a recent arrival on the earth if we are modeled after the apparently creator of the universe? Was he/she/it just playing for the previous billions of years, was the dinosaur era just a pet project? If the Earth was truly created for us as your Bible teaches then surely we would have been one of the first lifeforms to arrive, not one of the last.

    Another thing is, people say MAN wrote the Bible, so MAN could change it around. Ever come to think about what if God DIDN'T ALLOW MAN TO DO THAT? Everyone who don't believe keep saying What If.. What If..
    The Bible is a collection of tales spanning many centuries written by many authors. If you sit down and read it cover to cover you'll note it really isn't that well written either, the characters are two dimensional and it drags on in many places. If you choose to believe in it and think it dictates rules for your life then there are passages you likely don't follow now but probably should if you are a true believer ... such as:

    "Exodus 21:7 - And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do."

    So it's ok to sell your daughter into slavery apparently.

    "Exodus 35:2 - Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of solemn rest to Jehovah: whosoever doeth any work therein shall be put to death."

    Looks like death penalty for working on the sabbath.

    "Corinthians 11:14 - Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?"

    See any paintings of Jesus lately?

    In church one time, I had $5.00 . I was about 12 or 13. I wanted to give my 10 Percent. I didn't have change, so what I did is I put the whole $5.00 into the basket, KNOWING that God would see what I have done, and I didn't do it because I didn't have change, I did it because I believed.
    It is the preachers and the church that require the money, not your God, your God could quite easily fund the worship centers followers have created.

    Again though, as an agnostic I tend to be on the fence concerning these matters, but common sense has me leaning more towards a possibly created universe but no diety is actually monitoring each individual lifeform within that universe, unless this whole thing is a computer experiment in some giant universal mainframe system. Possible considering the electro-magnetic makeup of our universe too

    Life is a strange thing, it is quite difficult to grasp the sheer size on the universe in our rather primitive minds (we are primitive age wise, and socially in many respects).

    People of faith must also be willing to listen to those who don't have the same beliefs, luckily in the recent past on Earth this has begun to happen, I for one am sure glad this isn't one of the ages where non-believers were slain for their "lack of beliefs". Religion has been used for both good and bad throughout our history, deep down though I think it is really little more than a method to control the masses in some respects.
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    I believe the universe is teeming with intelligent life forms, but I have no proof of that, yet I still believe it. To believe otherwise would be difficult and irrational, imo.
    I'm with you on this one, especially with recent evidence beginning to show up that DNA may be spread via comets, etc.

    Fermis Paradox is interesting in that it asked "If there is other intelligent life out there, then where are they?", expecting to find evidence of some sort. Especially with the idea of mechanical life which even with our primitive technology is likely within our grasp within a century or so (the ability to send out self-replicating mechanical units to other worlds, who would replicate and then send themselves to other worlds).

    I think we are too young technologically to be part of the universe outside our local sphere of influence (our planet), if some sort of federation exists ala Star Trek then we are surely seen as too primitive yet to be part of it. We cannot even get along with each other, let alone get along with other races. I think before we would be accepted we would need to have a global government in place to show we can all get along as a race amongst ourselves first.

    Unfortunately we are centuries away from that happening, too many power hungry humans exist who would not be happy with borders coming down, etc. We would also have to stop spending so much money inventing new weapons to kill ourselves with me thinks
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  23. #23
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    I need to stay in this thread as the discussions are going on a healthy way There is somthing definately exists what we can call Supreme Power. I have felt it and have the heavenly mother touch too. I can cannot deny this fact.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by Dynanet
    . . . I think we are too young technologically to be part of the universe outside our local sphere of influence (our planet), if some sort of federation exists ala Star Trek then we are surely seen as too primitive yet to be part of it. We cannot even get along with each other, let alone get along with other races. I think before we would be accepted we would need to have a global government in place to show we can all get along as a race amongst ourselves first . . .
    I'm convinced that Earth is quarantened (sp?) and there's a huge sign outside our solar system that says -

    "DANGER DO NOT ENTER - KEEP AWAY - QUARANTENED AREA - PRIMATIVE SAVAGES EXIST ON EARTH"

    Last edited by Aussie Bob; 05-22-2004 at 02:38 AM.

  25. #25
    the problem scientists have with religion (not god per se, mind you, just religion) is that where (deistic) religious faith begins, any sort of thinking and intellectual discourse stops. this is obviously in direct opposition to scientists, who go by 'i think, therefore i am'.

    you will find that religion is a very convenient way of excusing yourself from making your own choices, doing your own thinking and drawing your own conclusions. specifically, morality is a very difficult subject to tackle from an intellectual perspective. this is why you will find that in most sci-fi, artificial intelligence far more 'intelligent' than humans will have no sense of morality or a very primitive version thereof (eg three laws of robotics).

    as an (agnostic) animal, human, member of society and citizen, i have to make my moral decisions based on my own blend of individualistic and utilitarian ethics. i consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and as such, i feel i am capable of doing an acceptable job of evaluating the circumstances and coming to a determination.

    for a lot of people, who are already heavily intellectually taxed when making much simpler choices (such as: mickey d's or burger king; jerry springer or montel; sheep or just jack off), having a deterministic set of moral decision making guidelines could be a great relief. deistic moral models are usually quite simple (ie 10 commandments), with variable amount of confusing elaborative comments on top of them, provided so that the common man need not think at all (sell a daughter into slavery? the bible tells you how, jean-pierre verse 69).

    not in the least, religion usually gives people a chance to do what they like doing best: the white folks go on crusades/torture people/burn some women, the black folks get to sing etc. before fast food, television and the sex revolution, this was one of the very few fun things to do in your spare time.

    you will notice that scientists rarely have actual issues with non-deistic religions, ie zen buddhism or shintoism. they may not care for the rituals, but they will not consider the core beliefs to be at odds with the scientific principle. in zen buddhism, for example, thinking is the whole point (yes, i'm aware it is called meditation and enlightenment respectively). in short, it is fine to believe as long as you have thought and continue to think about your choice to believe.

    i have personally not met anyone who subscribed to a deistic religion and was able to discuss their faith in an intelligent manner. this includes the student in the story - while he was able to defend his blind faith using some quick-witted demagogy, he
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  26. #26
    nevertheless never addressed the subject of faith itself.

    my 2 kopecks,
    paul
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  27. #27
    Originally posted by rusko
    nevertheless never addressed the subject of faith itself.
    Faith is a girl I used to date.. Open and shut case there...
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  28. #28
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    I knew from the beginning where the discussion was heading. But the arguments are dumb and convoluted. I don't even know where to begin because the arguments aren't really arguments. They are just convoluted thoughts.

    1. "Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold."

    First of all, you are trying to equate arbitruary measurements with exact measurements. Big mistake. The opposite of cold is hot, not heat. There is no opposite of heat. There are only measurements of heat. Hot and cold are arbitruary measurements and not exact measurements.

    Cold is NOT a word we use to describe the absense of heat. Cold is a word we use to describe something that is below what we considered normal temparature. If it is above normal temparature, then is Hot.

    How do you know if the water is hot? You feel it with one of your five senses. If there is no such thing as cold, then there isn't a thing called hot either. Nor is there warm, cool, or whatever.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as hot either, just measurements of heat?

    2. "Darkness is the absence of something."

    Same argument as above. The opposite of darkness is brightness. How do you know if the room is dark or bright? You use one of your senses. You see it with your eyes unless you are blind.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as brightness either, just measurements of light?

    3. "To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it."

    If I didn't think death is the opposite of life, then I would've flunk my English class and SAT. However, I do agree with you that death is the absence of life.

    4. "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?"

    Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over. Whoever told you that no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, must be lying to you.

    If you major in any biological science, then it's pretty hard not to observe the progress of evolution. The more complex the organism, the slowing the progress of evolution is. Evolution is observed and proven.

    I think you might be thinking about how humans evolved and that we evolve from monkies. That we have not proven and observe.

    5. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? ... So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir."

    WTF? Wait, let me repeat again. WTF are you talking about? How do we know if the Professor has a brain? Um... based on science maybe? Maybe cause we know if the Professor doesn't have a brain, he wouldn't be able to walk, talk, or think?

    Here is a short proof:

    All humans need a brain to be able to walk, talk, or think.
    Professor can walk, talk, and think.
    Thus professor must have a brain.




    Whoever wrote this crap doesn't know much about science. I said crap, not because it was arguing for the existence of God, but because the arguments are so flawed and stupid.

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    . . . Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over.
    Macro evolution or micro evolution?

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    Originally posted by hycloud
    I knew from the beginning where the discussion was heading. But the arguments are dumb and convoluted. I don't even know where to begin because the arguments aren't really arguments. They are just convoluted thoughts.

    1. "Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold."

    First of all, you are trying to equate arbitruary measurements with exact measurements. Big mistake. The opposite of cold is hot, not heat. There is no opposite of heat. There are only measurements of heat. Hot and cold are arbitruary measurements and not exact measurements.

    Cold is NOT a word we use to describe the absense of heat. Cold is a word we use to describe something that is below what we considered normal temparature. If it is above normal temparature, then is Hot.

    How do you know if the water is hot? You feel it with one of your five senses. If there is no such thing as cold, then there isn't a thing called hot either. Nor is there warm, cool, or whatever.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as hot either, just measurements of heat?

    2. "Darkness is the absence of something."

    Same argument as above. The opposite of darkness is brightness. How do you know if the room is dark or bright? You use one of your senses. You see it with your eyes unless you are blind.

    Following your logic, then there is no such thing as brightness either, just measurements of light?

    3. "To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it."

    If I didn't think death is the opposite of life, then I would've flunk my English class and SAT. However, I do agree with you that death is the absence of life.

    4. "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?"

    Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over. Whoever told you that no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, must be lying to you.

    If you major in any biological science, then it's pretty hard not to observe the progress of evolution. The more complex the organism, the slowing the progress of evolution is. Evolution is observed and proven.

    I think you might be thinking about how humans evolved and that we evolve from monkies. That we have not proven and observe.

    5. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? ... So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir."

    WTF? Wait, let me repeat again. WTF are you talking about? How do we know if the Professor has a brain? Um... based on science maybe? Maybe cause we know if the Professor doesn't have a brain, he wouldn't be able to walk, talk, or think?

    Here is a short proof:

    All humans need a brain to be able to walk, talk, or think.
    Professor can walk, talk, and think.
    Thus professor must have a brain.




    Whoever wrote this crap doesn't know much about science. I said crap, not because it was arguing for the existence of God, but because the arguments are so flawed and stupid.
    haha nice!

  31. #31
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    hmmm.... Dude things are going right way hope it come up with a decent solution. Dude time to your input here

  32. #32
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    Man, I'm reading it a dozen times and the argument The Dude posted still doesn't make sense.

    If you want to argue for the existence of God, this would have been better.

    How do you know if a room is dark or bright? With one of your senses right? The sense of sight.

    How do you know if the cup of water is hot or cold? With one of your senses right? To sense of feel.

    How many senses do you have? Five right?

    Now, what if you lost one of your senses, say your sense of sight. How do you know if the room is dark or bright? Others who are able to see will know if the room is bright or dark. You can't. You just need to have faith when your friend tells you that the room is bright.

    Just because you can't sense God, doesn't mean He/She does not exist. You just can't sense it.


    Um... yeah, I think that was the gist of the argument that The Dude posted. You need to have Faith in what the Church tells you even though you can't sense God.

    Well, have fun with the argument.

  33. #33
    I love it!

    Great job The Dude

  34. #34
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    Well, I reckon the title of the thread is actually beside the point.

    Believers do not need any argument. Faith in god is not based on any evidence or proofs 'he' has given up. You either beleive or you do not.

    That is why it is always pointless to argue against someones belief in a god, I think.

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    . . . Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over.
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Macro evolution or micro evolution?

  36. #36
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    Macro evolution, micro evolution, evolution, whatever. Doesn't matter. That's besides the point.

    Disapproving the theory of evolution doesn't prove the existence of God(s). I'm not turning this thread into a discussion about evolution. There are dozens of threads about it already.

    There are lots of Gods out their to believe in. I'm just providing arguments for the possible existence of God(s) in general, not the Christian God.

  37. #37
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    Macro evolution, micro evolution, evolution, whatever. Doesn't matter. That's besides the point . . .
    So you would go on public record and state that Macro "evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over." ?

    Just curious.

  38. #38
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    Why don't you create your own thread called "Creationist versus Evolutionist", so then we can have a discussion about it.

  39. #39
    See this is the thing... You CAN'T PROVE IF GOD EXIST .. I wish people would stop trying to prove it.

    Whatever people want to say can say it.. It seems no one think theres a more powerful being than a human. It seems everyone thinks a God is unreal and no such thing exists. Oh well, thats you.

    I tend to believe what I believe and no one can sway my belief. I see some of your comments as a test of my faith. Negative comments left and right.. but You CAN'T PROVE IT

    For someone who said every bill is counted for... Here we go again.. You think its highly impossible for someone who created the universe and us to do something like take a 5 dollar bill... Boy.


    Believe what you guys believe. Im not here to try to make you believers. I posted what I said.


    So, just like Fatty said.. Its pointless to argue someone's belief in God. You will NEVER win.
    Money is the root of all evil. So if you don't want to go crazy, give it all to me

  40. #40
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    Originally posted by hycloud
    Why don't you create your own thread called "Creationist versus Evolutionist", so then we can have a discussion about it.
    You opened the door.

    I just wanted to know if you were referring to Macro evolution or Micro evolution, in your statement - "Evolution is observed all the time and it is proven millions of times over."

    Did you mean Macro evolution? Yes or no.

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