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  1. #1

    Idea to stop advertising thread trashing

    If possible, there should be an option for the person that starts a thread in the advertising section to lock their own thread so people have to PM there questions or unnecessary comments.

  2. #2
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    I have seen other forums allow this BTW. Sounds like a good idea to me... Not sure of the code to implement.....

    Or the other option is just to remove the advertising forums all together
    Brad Baker
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  3. #3
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    I barely bother with the advertising forums anymore. I've posted there 7 times, I believe, and each thread was trashed for no good reason, sadly.

    I would support the ability to lock thread and perhaps even delete posts from that individual thread. That's just me, though.
    Doug Hazard - "retired" Web Hosting Master
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  4. #4
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    Or the other option is just to remove the advertising forums all together
    If it were my decision to make - I'd do it in a heartbeat

    There is an option to allow users of a certain usergroup (in this case 'registered') to close/open their own threads. I think though because of the number of 'dirty' members that work down there it'd be abused.

    So for now...if you want your own thread locked - use the report link and a staff member can probably close it for you (in most cases).

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Akash
    If it were my decision to make - I'd do it in a heartbeat
    Do it! I won't tell anyone it was you
    Brad Baker
    XYZulu Hosting

  6. #6
    I'd caution you that the advertising forums are what brings many here, including myself (And no I haven't sold anything... tried!, But I've bought a server and quite a few domain names though, and didn't have one problem).

    I also haven't noticed anyone's thread being trashed. In fact I was amazed they weren't. Unless by trashed you mean the irrelevant posts? Those have been received as neutral or supportive here.

    Joe

  7. #7
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    Joe,

    You generally won't see the posts where the threads are being trashed, we have a faily self policing user base that are more than willing to report posts that they feel violate the forum rules.

    This plays a huge part in getting rid of any post that violates the rules before it degrades the quality or purpose of the original post, the advertising mods do a great job of taking care them before they get out of hand.
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  8. #8
    Thanks eboundary! But you are obviously drastically underestimating the time I spend here! (I see LOTS of dissappearing topics some weeks! Hehe).

    What brings me here is 'guilt' I guess... For about a week now I've been going to search up my posts and reply here cuz I finally seen just how wrong I was! (Someone with very high xxx posts BLATENTLY killed a guys sale by telling the 'customer' how 'ignorant' he was being. *poof* he withdrew his offer.

    Quite a conundrum here... Such a fine line between...

    warning folks about scams
    'being a hotshot'
    and outright chasing an 'enemies' customers away.

    IMO, this case was uncalled for... sure the person could've got a better deal, but it was his own fault he didn't do the research.

    I say some idiots should get a 'vacation' for such behavior! (At least). And this would make people DAMN sure they smell what they they think they smell before they go off costing another member money. (Then again, I would hope that most members would not try to make a killing off anyone... a slightly better than normal profit is ok once in awhile, but if something God-awful is offered, the seller should trim it back some on his own accord. (And this could be a 'rule'... why not? ''Excessive gouging' or something? ANd yes, once again, someone has to make the decision what's over the line... but WHT isn't a democracy anyway, is it? I certainly hop not. Maybe it could also be warned against by a moderator, after it's witnessed a couple times and if it continued, could be considered 'full scamming' or something.

    Btw, I know how hard it is to run a 2400 member forum, let alone this one! But WHT is VERY unique in that the advertising forums get along as well as they do! I say it's worth breaking down and fine-tuning the rules a bit to preserve such a model community (Which owes EVERYTHING to its first rate moderation already!)

    Btw.. I think what Pee'd me off as bad as it did was the guys high post count to tell the truth. Now I'm curious if the post still exists...



    Keep up the good work WHT mods!

    -Joe
    Last edited by JetServers; 06-01-2004 at 11:22 PM.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by JetServers
    . . . Someone with very high xxx posts BLATENTLY killed a guys sale . . .
    You could help keep things like that from not happening by using that 'Report this post to a Community Leader' link.

    We try; but we can't see every post or every thread. We rely on our great member base to point us to the trouble spots.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  10. #10
    Well, once it was said it was done in this case. But yeah, I've never been good in the 'snitch' role anywhere... either had THE POWA or minded my own damn bidness! BUT, I do see the importance HERE now, AND I've not seen any abuse of power by anyone in authority since I've been around...

    So yeah... I spose I can click a link once in awhile to keep it all 'right'!

    Thankya, this place is really unique,
    -Joe

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by JetServers
    (Then again, I would hope that most members would not try to make a killing off anyone... a slightly better than normal profit is ok once in awhile, but if something God-awful is offered, the seller should trim it back some on his own accord. (And this could be a 'rule'... why not? ''Excessive gouging' or something? ANd yes, once again, someone has to make the decision what's over the line... but WHT isn't a democracy anyway, is it?
    How to determine what is "gouging"? Problem with that is, each seller can set his/her own pricing, even if it's outlandishly high (or low). For WHT to step in and say "that's too high", borders on price fixing (racketeering in the US), and is against the law.

    Caveat Emptor.
    Let the buyer cover his own collective butt. If they don't look around and research, they are more likely to make bad decisions.

  12. #12
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    I would like to see a minimum time or number of posts, preferably the former, before threads can be created.

    Last week I posted in 2 or 3 that were obvious scams 1st post jobs...one was some sort of pyramid scheme. Now one was removed but at least a rule like that would mean people had to hang about a little and not just drop in with one post straight into the ad section....just mho

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Fatty
    I would like to see a minimum time or number of posts, preferably the former, before threads can be created. . . .
    This is something we've been considering. I, for one, like it.

    Most scams are ran by first time posters. It would be rare for someone that's been here a month or two and has 100 posts, to intentionally defraud our members.

    And, for me, it's not just the deterent to scammers. But, I feel that someone should earn the free advertising offered in the Advertising Forums.

    Anyone have thoughts on posts and/or time constraints?
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  14. #14
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    Well, I reckon using posts is tricky. Since it can encourage mindless posting to get that limit. I think time is a better option or a combination....

    Also when I posted this I thought a bit irrelevant to trashing. But many of the threads that get trashed are these type of 1 post wonders. I bet that also has an effect and carries over to genuine threads getting trashed as people think that is the de regour.

    But I don't have specific numbers to suggest really. Maybe 2 weeks and 50 posts <ducks>

  15. #15
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    Definitely a combination of posts and time if this is a route WHT is considering. Likewise I don't have specific figures to suggest for post count, but a delay of a week should stop most potential scammers. There are easier targets, after all.
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  16. #16
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    It would need to be posts and time. 30 posts over a week? If they are just here for scamming/spamming, a week should make them think twice whether it is all worth it. They would then move on to other forums to spam and scam

  17. #17
    With the minimum posts needed to post URL's and use PM's I've seen a number of mindless posts made just to reach that minimum. I would agree that the week long time period and the 30 post minimum may be the best way to go. Making the minimum number of posts 30 (or preferably higher) would likely eliminate a lot of the mindless posts.

    On the flip side of that though, you would also stop any sales of services/items that may be needed right away or have time constraints of their own. I've seen some great deals on VB licenses and domain names in the ads forums because someone needed money right away.

    Tough call to make really, no matter what you decide on there will most likely be some ticked off people...

  18. #18
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    The report this post function works as intended. However, it's up to the individual receiving the report to decide what to do with the post.

    Personally, I'd go as far as banning competitors from posting in threads started by competitors, such as this.

    There really is no need for competitors to post in competitor's threads, though some feel that it is necessary to do so (admittedly more that specific user than anyone), mainly to get their signature seen by all.

    "Trashing" can be defined as many things. While I've (personally) been accused of trashing threads, though it wasn't intended as such, it's a very fine line, and I've got to say the mods do their best to handle things the best they possibly can.

    Nobody's perfect, but, as has been said before, use the "report this post" feature if you think a thread is trashing, deliberately. That will help quite a bit more.

    Personally, I don't like the idea of thread being locked by the user. If that was possible, then you'd have individuals locking threads, who were known scam artists (no names mentioned), disallowing individuals the opportunity to post personal experience with said company.
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  19. #19
    Originally posted by bear
    How to determine what is "gouging"? Problem with that is, each seller can set his/her own pricing, even if it's outlandishly high (or low). For WHT to step in and say "that's too high", borders on price fixing (racketeering in the US), and is against the law.

    Caveat Emptor.
    Let the buyer cover his own collective butt. If they don't look around and research, they are more likely to make bad decisions.
    I agree... On setting a price... Wherever, that's fine. Like you say... If a buyer agrees to a sky high price because they don't take the time to research or whatever, they deserve whatever they get themselves in for.

    In this situation there wasn't a 'set'.. the seller posted for best offer. The simple answer could be the same here too, I realize that. Btw... No matter how many checks everyone thinks they have on a communities leadership and how much they think their complaining and rabble-rousing affects the big picture and assures WE the little guy get 'our due', and are heard, and FORCE the big mean 'establishment' to play fair, no matter how much we'd like to think that we can affect the big picture, they can do whatever they want, and depending on how good they are, let us believe that we really do have a say. So it will ALWAYS come down to the PERSONAL 'fairness' and ethics of one person, the administrator. Period. (Or depending on the mechanics, maybe a group and their combined personal fairness and ethics).

    So Ok, let me just strike the rule idea altogether... That'll also allow me to tie this in with the other point that's been made and I wanted to comment on...

    A reputation hack:

    Instead of a rule, (AND instead of relying on # of posts and # of days someone's been here, since BOTH mean almost nothing) what's needed is 'reputation' (another hack that's successfully being used at more and more communities these days).

    Reputation is a point system like 'warn'... Er more accurately, it's about the opposite of warn. Fellow members can give points to those who know what they are talking about, have good customer service, don't 'gouge' , etc. It's a system that lets others know (whether they've been here forever or are brand new) what kind of person they're dealing with.

    The ones I've seen so far, the points are all 'lumped together'. I'd rather see a system that put the points on a few key traits, like (just a few quick examples here with no thought...) Information accuracy, willingness to help, willingness (and speed) to offer support after a sale, etc.

    And a good system would only allow points to be put toward relevant traits... So a purely informational post couldn't be rated with any support points, etc.

    And the system I seen gives more weight to members who have a higher point score themselves, their # of posts, how long they've been here, etc. This is a must, because it makes it even more reliable and would eliminate any new problems that could be caused by people trying to cheat, for example, registering new users and such would have no reward.

    Just a long windy ramble... I'll go lay down and hush for awhile now...

    Keep up the good work everyone,
    -Joe
    Last edited by JetServers; 06-02-2004 at 06:31 PM.

  20. #20
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    Instead of a rule, (AND instead of relying on # of posts and # of days someone's been here, since BOTH mean almost nothing) what's needed is 'reputation' (another hack that's successfully being used at more and more communities these days).
    Again, not a good idea, although as I understand it, a vb3 implementation is in the works for wht, which will include this.

    WHY is this not a good idea? Simple logic really:
    WHT is one of the largest places to discuss webhosting, if not THE largest. Well, that comes with ups and downs.

    Upside: You have a marketplace of individuals to choose your servers from, to choose your services from, etc.

    Downside: You have a marketplace of competition. Now competition in and of itself isn't bad, but when you get the children that WHT seems to tend to attract, you get thread trashing, competition trashing. This would only lead to more of this.

    Example:
    Reputations are distributed by the community. Well, let's say X community member doesn't like Y community member, k? In order to lash back at Y community member, X community member posts negative feedback and reputation regarding this member. This is already a known factor here, but it's NOT permament. Reputation would make that permament, shown to everyone. NOT a good idea.

    Example:
    Again, reputations are distributed by the community. Well, let's say X community member works WITH (or for) Y community member. Who's to stop them from granting them a HIGHER reputation or favor, or feedback? Nothing.

    Example:
    Reputations are handled by the moderators. Well, mods, while great are far from perfect, and in many cases run their OWN business. This would become worse than a "boy's club" in that case, trust me.

    Example:
    Reputations are approved by moderators. Great, now not only do mods have to work with checking posts, verifying posts, but they get the added chore of managing and maintaining reputations. All this, and for 0.00 too.

    In a community the size (and often times maturity) of WHT, reputation is NOT a good thing. Research is. There's a reason the search function is there.
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  21. #21
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    Speaking as someone who uses the advertising forums regularly, and has bought and sold thousands of dollars worth of products/services, I hate to see anybody make the suggestion of taking them away. The template/design section in particular, brings lots of creative people here, that enhance this community IMHO.

    However, I do agree we should have some sort of 'qualification' for using the advertising sections. The combination time/posts sounds like the best option at this point.

    I would also like to make a suggestion, and an important point.....

    The suggestion - Having selected person(s) oversee the advertising forums. This could be their main job at WHT, and since it's obvious that some would rather not be involved with the advertising forums (or even have them) this would allow a more focused approach for everybody.

    I for one, would gladly volunteer in the template/design section because I spend a lot of time there, graphics/design is my 'thing', and those are my people. I already bust people's chops when they trash sales threads in that section anyway.

    The important point - EVERYBODY needs to use the 'report this post' feature. None of the other members knows who reports a post, so there is no worries about being called a snitch, or having somebody get mad at you. The mods can't be everywhere at once, and can't fix what they don't know is broken. As far as I am concerned it is your duty as a good member to report posts that are clearly breaking the rules. This doesn't mean report every little argument of course.

    P.S. - I'm just getting back online after almost 24 hours with no power due to a bad storm in my area, so excuse me if I seem a little talkative or carried away. I've spent all day in a dark room with no air conditioning and no computer.
    Last edited by Gen-T; 06-03-2004 at 12:22 AM.

  22. #22
    I buy advertising for my sites from the other offers forum on a regular basis. A lot of the people that post ad space available are new to WHT, sometimes first time posters, that have just learned this is a great place for them to find people interested in buying their ad space. I would hate to lose that. They're not web hosts, and usually don't stick around for discussions in other forums, but that doesn't make their ad space any less valuable to the other WHT members.
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  23. #23
    In reference to Dan's post, perhaps there could be specific categories which would have different requirements such as fewer posts needed to post an offer for banner ad space?

    Although exceptions like that could get *messy*....

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