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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Space Coast, FL
    Posts
    160

    2 Check Out - fresh bull sh*t

    Had a million and one problems with 2CheckOut in the past, but this one is top of the pile.

    I recently bought a company with clients paying via 2CO - I update the password and billing information of 2CO, minutes after I have done this, I am locked out of 2CO.

    They send me an email asking why I have changed the banking details, I tell them I have taken over ownership of the account - I even had the seller of the company speak to them and tell them everything was ok.

    I then get this email from them -

    2CO licenses vendors to resell products thru us. We will only allow the transfer of accounts with documentation of the sale of the business attached to the account.

    We will require:
    1. Completion of Risk Documentation.
    2. A copy of the Bill of Sale showing ownership transfer.
    (we will accept a notarized statement from the former owner that includes all the particulars of the sale, and a notarized statement from you that includes the statement that you are assuming all potential liabilities for the account)

    Without this documentation, we will NOT continue to process for the account.

    If we do not receive this documentation prior to the end of this payment period, the account will be closed.

    Thank You

    Tom Denman
    Director of Risk Management
    tdenman@2co.com
    http://www.2checkout.com


    So in other words I have 10 days to comply or they will close the account with all the clients in their, my business will be shut down.

    I have bought and sold multiple businesses before containing 2CO accounts and NEVER have I received this.

    They want to see the Bill of Sale - does the NDA allow the bill of sale to be shown to a third party, what right do they have? Would I have a case if they closed the account after not showing them this?

    Let me know what you think.
    Dan
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia.
    Posts
    3,590

    Re: 2 Check Out - fresh bull sh*t

    Originally posted by Graphicism
    does the NDA allow the bill of sale to be shown to a third party
    Does it? You've got the NDA.

    But since they "will accept a notarized statement from the former owner that includes all the particulars of the sale" etc, I think they are providing you with the enough scope to comply. From their aspect, you need to take on the liability for any future chargebacks if there's not enough funds in the rolling reserve, so they need to protect themselves.

    Only you and the seller can discuss this and decide how to comply with what 2CO are asking for.

    Gary

  3. #3
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    Nov 2003
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    Sounds reasonable to me. The 2co account / risk management / credit report etc was set up for the previous owners. That's not you.

    Wouldn't complying with the rules of the banks/merchant processors just be a basic everyday part of buying a company?!?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Space Coast, FL
    Posts
    160
    I just do see what it has to do with them, if I did steal the password and change the account details - why wouldn't they contact the original owner instead of me. Or rather the original owner would contact them if there was a problem.

    Also, i've done this more that once, why are they only just starting to do it now?

    And they will close the account in 10 days? - you would think they would atleast set the account back before the change.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    3,381
    I'd suggest complying with their request. It doesn't seem out of line with typical processes followed by many merchant processing businesses.

    Even though they are a 3rd party processor, they are still bearing the risk on transactions just the same as a regular merchant account.

    So it is not unusual during a business changeover for the new owners to have to provide some substantiating documentation.

    The only thing that sounds harsh is the 10-day interval. It might be equally effective and less offensive if they simply said "we will continue to process but not release any funds... until said documentation is returned."

    That way you wouldn't have to worry about your business getting shut down and from 2CO's perspective, it would certainly compell people to comply with their request quickly while also not incurring any unfounded risk with the new owner.

    But that's just my two cents. My suggestion - get the docs, have the new owner provide the necessary info, and you should be all set then.
    CDGcommerce.com - Trusted Merchant Account Solutions since 1998
    Many thousands of successful, growing businesses benefit from our expertise every day. You can, too!
    We help merchants to eliminate gateway costs, reduce & mitigate fraud and achieve streamlined PCI compliance.
    Learn more today at http://www.cdgcommerce.com - we look forward to helping your business grow!

  6. #6
    if you wait and don't comply with them, and if they do close your account, you'll might have a hard time getting the customers back.

    I'd highly suggest complying with them, expecially if you bought the company for a large price...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    93
    I agree with the rest of the bunch. Just fill out the forms for the previouse owner, have him notorize the documents and then send them to 2CO. It sounds like you do alot of business with 2CO with all your accounts so if they pissed you off then you can migrate 100% of all your business to another proccessor.

    But to be honest it does not sound to me like they are being unresonable. 10 days to fill out a couple of forms and run down to your local mail boxes etc... or other location for notary seems pretty easy to do.

    If the primary problem is time then call 2CO up and ask for an extension they will probably be resonable.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
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    3,381
    Good point, comfixit. They would probably be open an extension if it were necessary.

    At the end of the day, 2CO doesn't benefit from closing accounts... so as long as the risk is managed, they would naturally prefer to continue processing on your account I'm sure.
    CDGcommerce.com - Trusted Merchant Account Solutions since 1998
    Many thousands of successful, growing businesses benefit from our expertise every day. You can, too!
    We help merchants to eliminate gateway costs, reduce & mitigate fraud and achieve streamlined PCI compliance.
    Learn more today at http://www.cdgcommerce.com - we look forward to helping your business grow!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    539
    A few comments, if I may.

    1. Graphicism doesn't mention that my email was not the first email on this issue. He had already refused to provide the information regarding the sale to my risk analyst.


    To quote:

    Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:16 PM
    Subject: Re: Important: order - xxxxx


    > I will not fax you our agreement - this is unnecessary and not the terms
    you
    > have to abide by for 2CheckOut. Not only will I not fax you, but I do not
    > have a fax and will not go out of my way to use one.
    >
    > I have already gone through the same process before, that of buying and
    > selling 2checkout accounts with clients and did not have to show you our
    > agreement.
    >
    > I have a lot of work to get on with, you are slowing this down by holding
    > the account hostage.
    >
    > Would you lock the account at change of password? What if I transferred
    the
    > billing details to my business partner? What if I moved?
    >

    2. "what it has to do with us" is that it is our business, with our customers (by definition). Someone may have sold you their business, but they do not have the right to sell the 2CO license without our approval. 2CO terms of service clearly state we can stop offering our services to a vendor without notice.

    3. I have posted a number of times in WHT with regards to account transfers. A simple search of my posts will show how clear we have been with regards to this process.

    4. 2CO is not a 3rd party processor. It is unfortunate that after my correcting cdgcommerce on this numerous times, he still persists in calling us one. I guess i should expect more from an ISO reseller.
    TomD
    Director - Business Development
    tdenman@2co.com
    www.2checkout.com

  10. #10
    Originally posted by TomD
    4. 2CO is not a 3rd party processor.
    if they're not a TPP and not an MSP, what category do they fall under?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    638
    Originally posted by boeki
    if they're not a TPP and not an MSP, what category do they fall under?
    yeah. what are you?

  12. #12

    Re: 2 Check Out - fresh bull sh*t

    so, if someone steals YOUR password, they should able to just change the bank info? What they asked for seems reasonable, so why not just provide it?


    Originally posted by Graphicism
    Had a million and one problems with 2CheckOut in the past, but this one is top of the pile.

    I recently bought a company with clients paying via 2CO - I update the password and billing information of 2CO, minutes after I have done this, I am locked out of 2CO.

    They send me an email asking why I have changed the banking details, I tell them I have taken over ownership of the account - I even had the seller of the company speak to them and tell them everything was ok.

    I then get this email from them -

    2CO licenses vendors to resell products thru us. We will only allow the transfer of accounts with documentation of the sale of the business attached to the account.

    We will require:
    1. Completion of Risk Documentation.
    2. A copy of the Bill of Sale showing ownership transfer.
    (we will accept a notarized statement from the former owner that includes all the particulars of the sale, and a notarized statement from you that includes the statement that you are assuming all potential liabilities for the account)

    Without this documentation, we will NOT continue to process for the account.

    If we do not receive this documentation prior to the end of this payment period, the account will be closed.

    Thank You

    Tom Denman
    Director of Risk Management
    tdenman@2co.com
    http://www.2checkout.com


    So in other words I have 10 days to comply or they will close the account with all the clients in their, my business will be shut down.

    I have bought and sold multiple businesses before containing 2CO accounts and NEVER have I received this.

    They want to see the Bill of Sale - does the NDA allow the bill of sale to be shown to a third party, what right do they have? Would I have a case if they closed the account after not showing them this?

    Let me know what you think.
    Dan

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia.
    Posts
    3,590
    Originally posted by TomD
    4. 2CO is not a 3rd party processor. It is unfortunate that after my correcting cdgcommerce on this numerous times, he still persists in calling us one. I guess i should expect more from an ISO reseller.
    You'd better explain it to Mal as well...

    Gary

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Space Coast, FL
    Posts
    160
    TomD,

    You and your business ethics make no sense, you are also not answering any of my questions, please answer the email you so well quoted in your post.

    1. Why are you only starting to do this now? Why have you never done it before?

    2. Why would you lock the account at change of bank info? I could of changed banks, I could of transferred it to my business partner. I could of simply moved address.

    3. If I did steal the account, the original owner would let you know.

    In answer to your points.

    1. TomD does not mention the guy I bought it from has also emailed them from the email on 2CO file that it is all ok.

    2. The 2CheckOut license was not sold, it was handed over with the business.

    3. I should not have to search WHT for my answers to problems with 2CO.

    4. 2CheckOut is 3rd party processor, and I have the choice to use you or not.

    Rather than wasting time posting on WHT - attend to your business, make this process more clear and answer your emails and support issues in a more reasonable time.

    I will comply to your ransom demands, (as with any other similar hostage situation and blank mail of send or we will shut down your business demands) I have no option not too.
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  15. #15
    Originally posted by Graphicism
    I should not have to search WHT for my answers to problems with 2CO.
    you should have searched the 2co site. for answers to your problems, check out http://www.2checkout.com/newsletter/

    quoting from the newsletter:
    For fraud and risk management purposes, some account registration information will be “locked” following validation of each account. If any of this primary information needs to be changed an additional fee will apply in most circumstances. This is an absolutely necessary modification in order to prevent accounts from randomly migrating from individual to individual without notification of ownership or product information changes.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Space Coast, FL
    Posts
    160
    Your right boeki, I should of know I wouldn't get a straight answer by contacting them
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    XHTML CSS web sites

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    on the 'net
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    1,187
    Why is this so hard?

    When you engage someone to process credit cards for you, they are in a position of financial liability. It is exactly the same as if they were giving you a loan for the total amount you are processing.

    2co is responsible for paying Visa/MC/Amex for chargebacks and fraud on your account, even if you have disappeared into thin air.

    When you sell your business, the new owners are no longer the people who 2co has investigated and done a credit report on. (I am assuming you did not buy an incorporated business). You could process thousands of fraudulent transactions in the next 10 days and fly the coop. 2co would have to pay for that.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    539
    Originally posted by Graphicism
    TomD,

    You and your business ethics make no sense, you are also not answering any of my questions, please answer the email you so well quoted in your post.

    1. Why are you only starting to do this now? Why have you never done it before?

    2. Why would you lock the account at change of bank info? I could of changed banks, I could of transferred it to my business partner. I could of simply moved address.

    3. If I did steal the account, the original owner would let you know.

    In answer to your points.

    1. TomD does not mention the guy I bought it from has also emailed them from the email on 2CO file that it is all ok.

    2. The 2CheckOut license was not sold, it was handed over with the business.

    3. I should not have to search WHT for my answers to problems with 2CO.

    4. 2CheckOut is 3rd party processor, and I have the choice to use you or not.

    Rather than wasting time posting on WHT - attend to your business, make this process more clear and answer your emails and support issues in a more reasonable time.

    I will comply to your ransom demands, (as with any other similar hostage situation and blank mail of send or we will shut down your business demands) I have no option not too.
    1. We didn't just start to do this now, it has been posted prior to 2004.

    2. We marked the account "do not pay" when the Vendor information changed. When you refused to provide the information requested, you were given termination notice.

    3. We don't have a business relationship with you until we receive the documentation requested -- ALL of it.

    4. Whether the owner contacted us or not is not the issue. The issue is the change of vendor details. You claim to have purchased the business, provide the proof.

    5. The license was transferred without notice or approval.

    6. You chose to post in this forum, do you not normally search for topics prior to posting?

    7. 2Co is not a 3rd party processor, and we have the right to choose to not sell your products/ services.

    8. Your emails were answered, you simply didn't like the responses.

    9. You don't have ransom demands, you are expected to provide information to be a licensee/ vendor of 2CO.

    I would suggest that in light of your unhappiness with the 2CO requirements, you should research alternatives.
    TomD
    Director - Business Development
    tdenman@2co.com
    www.2checkout.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    3,643
    7. 2Co is not a 3rd party processor, and we have the right to choose to not sell your products/ services.
    Then what type of processor are you? You're dodging the question. You have the merchant account, and people use you to process payments, therefore you're classified as a 3rd party processor. Am I correct, or no?

    - Matt

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    638
    Matt:

    2CO is not a third party processor.

    They are something like a department store. They sell the products/services under their name and you are their supplier.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    5,408
    So give them the info they want OR download a dump of the customer information and have them signup on your normal billing system if need be.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,545
    It seems to me, that they only gave you an ultimatum after you refused to provide them with the information they wanted.

    If I were you, I'd be kissing butt and asking for a bit of an extension so you can get all the info together to send them.

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