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  1. #1

    Was Hit with a Huge Fraud

    Not sure if this goes here or not, but I would like to post it too see if there is anything you guys think I could do to get it back ok here is my story.

    I run several network sites, 1 is hosting and 1 is a custom built pc's, then a couple health sites. Now my problem, I had a guy from Indonesia order a pc from us it was one of are bigger pc's $3000 was the total he paid it, it cleared all is good. We ship it FedEx as he asks for it too be shipped via FedEx so we do. 3 months later we receive a chargeback for the amount of $3000 I was shocked everything looked good, we go straight to are merchant account (authorize.net) and ask them what in the world can we do about this, they say the credit card didn't even belong to him, then they stress it would have never have cleared if AVS was on, but this clearly isn't the case as I have proof of it on and working for over 2 years. So then they tell us they can't be held liable for this and to read there TOS as it clearly states that, well then we go to bank and ask them what there is we can do they say the same thing nothing. So now I'm out $3000 and a pc that was personally built and made custom for him. So my question to you is what in the world do I do, is there anything I can do or I'm I pretty much screwed here.

    Btw the funny thing is he tried ordering a second pc from us for $3500 boy am I glad that one didn't clear. Odd thing though is how did the first one clear when nothing and I mean nothing matched, on the card. His name, his address, and his phone number all were different then the card holders. I do have proof and records of everything that happened incase I need to give it too anyone.

    Any clues on how to get it back ?

    Btw if this doesn't belong here or doesn't go with anything feel free to delete it, I just wanted to ask here for help before I go asking someone else.
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  2. #2
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    Send the police over to his address for fraud.
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  3. #3
    hmm interesting, you know the number for the Indonesian Police as I sure don't Local police here couldn't do anything could they ?
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  4. #4
    use the FBI?

  5. #5
    Just thought of calling them myself after calling the police was brought up, I'll try to get ahold of someone tommarrow about this thanks guys
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  6. #6
    log his IP

  7. #7
    If i was shipping pc's or any big orders, i would call the number they provide to confirm and make sure everything looks good before i even lift a finger.

    Because you have an address you might be able to do something with the police or even send them to collections. But dont expect to recover any $$ anytime soon.

  8. #8
    The thing is the number that was on file is his which is another on how it cleared. None of the info that he entered was on the card, he entered all his info except the credit card and it went through weird huh. Btw we did call it and it went straight to his answer machine.

    Originally posted by tymcin
    If i was shipping pc's or any big orders, i would call the number they provide to confirm and make sure everything looks good before i even lift a finger.

    Because you have an address you might be able to do something with the police or even send them to collections. But dont expect to recover any $$ anytime soon.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
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    if nothing matched, why was the item shipped?

    dont you have a fedex signature?

    i find it very hard to belieev they can charge this back on you.
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
    contrary to popular belief - no attorney is necessary!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    Originally posted by LaurenStephens
    if nothing matched, why was the item shipped?

    dont you have a fedex signature?

    i find it very hard to belieev they can charge this back on you.
    It can be chargebacked because it was fruad. BaddaBing stated that the CC company said it did not belong to him.

    As far as AVS, that usually does not work for overseas anyway because no ZIP / postal code.

    BTW BaddaBing - authorizenet.com is not your merchant account, they are only a payment gateway. I assume when you talked to your bank, you might have spoken to your processor.

    I take it when nothing matched from auth.net - but it still cleared, you decided to create the PC because you saw the profit? No offense - but that is why the fraud works. Yes - we all like money & we Americans especially are judged on how much we make, where we live, and what we drive.

    The three biggest red flags that I see in your message:

    • from Indonesia - any country unfortunately should bring up like especially Nigeria, etc
    • Asked for it to be Fed Ex - which I am assuming overnight? Once again - greed is coming into play. He hopes you see the dollars signs & he hopes that you want to make your customer happy. He hopes you sees that he wants it right away & you will not think twice about where you are shipping it to.
    • Nothing matched. Here again - proving that no gateway is all that great. Do not just rely on the gateway to approve the transaction. I remember a message awhile back stating that LinkPoint does not have a way to turn on the feature like auth.net for AVS. Instead you build this into the shopping cart. This is the reason. Liability, plain and simple. LinkPoint does not want to be blamed. And we do like to blame others for our mistakes unfortunately

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Unfortunately, this kind of fraud happens every day. It is very unfortunate that you were a victim of it but here are some things that you can do to protect yourself in the future:

    1. AVS - AVS does NOT work on foreign-issued cards. There is no means by which you can get an AVS match result back on a foreign transaction. So while you will want to scrub on the AVS result for U.S. sales (and should configure AuthNet accordingly), this won't help with international sales. You should also scrub on the CVV result whenever it is available.

    2. Transaction Approvals - a transaction authorization does NOT mean that a sale is "good", it only means that the issuing bank acknowledged that the card # is active and working and there was sufficient credit on the card. It does not mean that any kind of fraud scrubbing has been done on it - this is performed separately by you, as the merchant, and any systems that you use for it.

    3. Be Aware of High Ticket, "Rush" Sales - this should be a warning sign. Fraudsters typically buy products that they can later resell. So high-end electronics equipment, computers, etc. have a good resell value and the bigger, the more profitable it is.

    Also be wary when someone wants it to be rushed and they don't care about the added cost. After all, why would they? It isn't their money in the first place!

    4. Request Documentation - for any international sales, request the customer to fax you a copy of both the physical card AND the credit card statement. Or they can scan and email this. This will help ward off at least some of the fraudsters and can discourage most of them from pursuing it further. You can also for a copy of Photo ID as a further deterrent.

    5. Chargeback Rules - having a signature won't matter if you shipped based upon a stolen card. If you follow the above rules of thumb and be wary of countries like Indonesia and a few other "hot spots" for fraud (statistically speaking)... you will help prevent the vast majority of chargebacks.

    6. Post-Chargeback - unfortunately... there isn't a lot you can do at this point. The FBI likely won't get involved in this particular case since it is $3K and I believe that they only investigate if it is over $100K or more (not sure on the exact #). The local police in Indonesia - I haven't a clue if they would assist or not.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    BaddaBing,

    What type of card was it on?

  13. #13
    Again it was cleared by Authorize.net so we thought it was good to go we had no idea the info he gave us did not match the card till it was too late. But Believe you me, we will never ever do this again, 2 years running with 1 fraud order isn't bad just too bad it was so big.

    Originally posted by LaurenStephens
    if nothing matched, why was the item shipped?

    dont you have a fedex signature?

    i find it very hard to belieev they can charge this back on you.
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  14. #14
    It was a Master Card

    and thanks for the help so far guys

    Originally posted by MoRocco
    BaddaBing,

    What type of card was it on?
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  15. #15
    Yes sorry we went to authorize.net then to are merchant account people which is a bank just outside of new york they said the same thing. Anywho we did not know nothing matched until 3 months later when it was shipped, we created the pc looked over the order all looked good authorize.net cleared it ran it by some people they said it looked good, then we sent it. Anyways guess there isn't anything we can do, bummer that was a huge mistake on are part. Btw now we screen every order carefully and anything that looks too weird is not built or shipped, the order is simple voided.


    To answer this

    dont you have a fedex signature?

    Yes we do have it, not sure how much that it will help us though. Btw the bank did tell us this guy has done the same thing to multiple people over the course of 8 months from various places on the net, (Ebay, Amazon, etc. )

    Originally posted by coreybryant
    It can be chargebacked because it was fruad. BaddaBing stated that the CC company said it did not belong to him.

    As far as AVS, that usually does not work for overseas anyway because no ZIP / postal code.

    BTW BaddaBing - authorizenet.com is not your merchant account, they are only a payment gateway. I assume when you talked to your bank, you might have spoken to your processor.

    I take it when nothing matched from auth.net - but it still cleared, you decided to create the PC because you saw the profit? No offense - but that is why the fraud works. Yes - we all like money & we Americans especially are judged on how much we make, where we live, and what we drive.

    The three biggest red flags that I see in your message:

    • from Indonesia - any country unfortunately should bring up like especially Nigeria, etc
    • Asked for it to be Fed Ex - which I am assuming overnight? Once again - greed is coming into play. He hopes you see the dollars signs & he hopes that you want to make your customer happy. He hopes you sees that he wants it right away & you will not think twice about where you are shipping it to.
    • Nothing matched. Here again - proving that no gateway is all that great. Do not just rely on the gateway to approve the transaction. I remember a message awhile back stating that LinkPoint does not have a way to turn on the feature like auth.net for AVS. Instead you build this into the shopping cart. This is the reason. Liability, plain and simple. LinkPoint does not want to be blamed. And we do like to blame others for our mistakes unfortunately
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    56
    Just out of curiosity...What was the reason code attached to the chargeback.

  17. #17
    I'll have to get back to you on that as I don't have the info with me at the moment (i'm at work) I'll post back here tonight with that info.
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Originally posted by BaddaBing
    hmm interesting, you know the number for the Indonesian Police as I sure don't Local police here couldn't do anything could they ?
    Local police phone no is : 112... so if u wanna dial the country code then the no... ie +62112 it should get you straight thru to their hotline.

    But the thing is you'd most probably need to be able to speak the indonesian language as most aren't fluent in english.

    Hope this helps

  19. #19
    Join Date
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    The mention of the fact that this cardholder has done the same thing to other people leads me to believe that perhaps this is cardholder fraud as opposed to a bonafide "unauthorized use" chargeback from a stolen card.

    So yes, it would be interesting to find out what reason code was given.
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  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Baddading:
    This is an off topic. Please USE our instead of are when you refer to your company. I get off track when i'm reading this thread especially your posts.

    This is an interesting topic by the way.
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  21. #21
    Woops sorry I was running on 3 hours of sleep when I posted this. Anyways the chargeback reason that they gave us was that her card number was stolen and then charged without her knowing. So at the moment we can't figure out a way to get either the pc or the money back.

    Originally posted by Jeffreyw
    Baddading:
    This is an off topic. Please USE our instead of are when you refer to your company. I get off track when i'm reading this thread especially your posts.

    This is an interesting topic by the way.
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  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    56
    If that was a Visa it was a 23 and if it was a MC it was 4837.

    Were you able to appeal? In most instances an appeal is even permited with those type of chargebacks

  23. #23
    Yes we appealed but the bank said we likely, even with an appeal wouldn't get our money back.
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    BaddaBing:

    Just curious, why did you reject his second order?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    56
    Originally posted by BaddaBing
    Yes we appealed but the bank said we likely, even with an appeal wouldn't get our money back.
    BaddaBing...look into VbV an SecureCode. They completely eliminate those chargebacks within the payment network. Its your only line of defense.

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