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  1. #1
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    the pope is anti-muslim

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ope_muslims_dc

    lol, someone had better warn him about catholic priests!
    if you haven't considered chapter 7 bankruptcy, maybe you should.
    eliminate your debt, keep the property you want, most people qualify.
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  2. #2
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    If the marriage is registered in the consulate of a Muslim country, the document said, the Catholic must be careful not to sign a document or swear an oath including the shahada, the Islamic profession of faith, which would amount to converting.
    This is from first hand eye witness of my friend's marriage with a Catholic girl. He is a Hindu.

    They both fell in love while studying architecture. They decided to get married one day and went to a court and got it registered. Same day they called a Hindu priest and in the presence of friends they got married. Parents were living in other cities and suspecting objection from them they didnt invite them.

    Then they went to the girl's parents and announced that they were married. They got furious and locked up the girl and told the boy the marriage is cancelled.

    The boy's parents who were more agreeable and broadminded approached the bride's parents and finally made them agree to the marriage. The bride's parents however insisted that a wedding in church should also be held. Everyone agreed and just before the church wedding the boy was asked to meet the priest. He was then questioned about his religion and was bluntly told either to convert to Christianity or the marriage stands cancelled.

    The boy's father made a lot of noise and they tried to bargain saying the kids from the marriage should be baptised. The boy and his parents said they would not insist on any religion on the kids but instead allow the kids to choose any religion when they are adults.

    The priest in the church finally agreed to go ahead with the wedding and just before the oath he asked the boy and his parents to sign the register. The boy was about to sign when his father took the book and read what was written. It said the boy willingly agrees to convert to Christianity after denouncing his other religion.

    They got married without signing anything. The boy's father was an Air Force psychiatrist and knew how to get what he wanted.

  3. #3
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    He was then questioned about his religion and was bluntly told either to convert to Christianity or the marriage stands cancelled.
    The Catholic church only requires one parent to be Christian. If one parent is not Christian then they also require you to promise you will raise the children as Christians.
    Alvin

  4. #4
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    May 2003
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    urged Muslims to show more respect for human rights
    Now pope offended muslim world!!!!!!

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Darktwist
    Now pope offended muslim world!!!!!!
    Don't be so silly.

    If you read the entire article, you'll find that the outlines of the document do have actual roots, and backing.

    I cannot see the big deal here.

    Pope John Paul is not anti-muslim, and were exactly you get that from, is beyond me.

    The document is about preserving Catholicism, as it has always been. People need to understand things, before making such ridiculous outbursts. If you do not understand, nor know the deep roots of the Catholic faith, do not make such presumptuous posts, it makes you look a tad silly.


    Simon
    EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network.

  6. #6
    Yeah I read that this morning on Yahoo. Quite entertaining and respectfully, Pope's observations about the condition and status of women in Islam could not be more wrong.

    I can go all day correcting almost every single "concern" of the Pope with Islam, however, there are some great books that have been authored by Muslim and non-Muslim western authors so I do not feel the need to reinvent the wheel.

    Only thing I can say is that Islam beleives in COMPLETE equality between men and women. However, "equality" does not equate to "sameness."

    IMO it's foolish for the Pope to feel the need of intermixing two very different issues of women rights and cross marriage. But then again, he needs to give SOME "rationale" to discourage Catholics from tieing knots with Muslims.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by zaid2001
    IMO it's foolish for the Pope to feel the need of intermixing two very different issues of women rights and cross marriage. But then again, he needs to give SOME "rationale" to discourage Catholics from tieing knots with Muslims.
    Why, exactly?

    Is the world that backwards nowadays, that even a religion is questioned on it's stances?

    I'm sorry, but if this was the other way around, nobody would bat an eyelid. The Vatican don't just release documents and statements, without proper forethought. The article, and documents state categorically where they are coming from.

    Just because of what was stated, doesn't mean the Vatican, nor Pope John Paul are "anti-muslim", nor does it mean they must give a reason for their stance on such an issue, further to what they already have done.

    As a Catholic, from a long line of Catholic's, I find both the title, and contents of this thread very offensive.

    I know the cool thing is to mock the Catholic Church, but if you're going to mock, at least give it some proper forethought.

    Simon
    EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network.

  8. #8
    Why, exactly?
    Quoting the article:

    It hoped Muslims would show "a growing awareness that fundamental liberties, the inviolable rights of the person, the equal dignity of man and woman, the democratic principle of government and the healthy lay character of the state are principles that cannot be surrendered."
    Take a survey of women practicing Islam in a developed nation and women practicing other religions in the same nation. The results may surprise you. Fact is, Islam is VERY clear and probity of gender bias and most Muslims very well understand that and respect that.

    Now, switch over to countries not falling under the developed country status and you will see increase abuses of women-- but that is not connected to the religion, rather, it's connected directly to the economic conditions. The same kinds of abuses occur in non-Islamic nations as well, proving my point.

    While I believe democracy is the best form of government, we cannot dictate what kind of government a nation must put in place.

    This is just one of the flaws I see in the Vatican's judgment of Islam.

    Just because of what was stated, doesn't mean the Vatican, nor Pope John Paul are "anti-muslim", nor does it mean they must give a reason for their stance on such an issue, further to what they already have done.
    And never did I mention or in any way imply that it was "anti-muslim"...unless you consider me calling it "foolish" as anti-muslim, I will assume you are still responding to posts above.

    I know the cool thing is to mock the Catholic Church, but if you're going to mock, at least give it some proper forethought.
    I strongly doubt that mocking the religion is the purpose of this thread. Either way, that is certainly not the purpose of my posts in this thread.

  9. #9
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    Lauren tends to over-react on subjects. I tend to correct her on some and she lashes back at me. The Pope is not anti-muslim... hes just warning catholics of what will happen if they marry a muslim husband. How would you feel if you married a muslim country and went back to his country? Would you wear a viel over your face? I doubt it. I'm all for women's rights, but men also have rights too. Just to point out that I do not favor just women, but men also. Its true, women do not have very many rights like we do.
    Kerry Jones

  10. #10
    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    Lauren tends to over-react on subjects. I tend to correct her on some and she lashes back at me. The Pope is not anti-muslim... hes just warning catholics of what will happen if they marry a muslim husband. How would you feel if you married a muslim country and went back to his country? Would you wear a viel over your face? I doubt it. I'm all for women's rights, but men also have rights too. Just to point out that I do not favor just women, but men also. Its true, women do not have very many rights like we do.
    While I cannot answer the question about how I'd feel about wearing a veil, I know at least few people who have married Americans that were not necessarily raised with the same religious values. In most of the cases, the wife converted her religion with the marriage and actually ENJOYS wearing the veil.

    I get a feeling that you are judging the veil simply by its looks as a torturous cover over a woman's body-- that is hardly its purpose. The veil itself is supposed to serve as a protection to the woman-- not work to her disadvantage.

  11. #11
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    Zaid, the title of the thread, as I stated, reads;

    "The pope is Anti-Muslim".

    In my opinion, I need go further into it.

    It's offensive, and way out of line.

    Simon
    EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    Lauren tends to over-react on subjects. I tend to correct her on some and she lashes back at me. The Pope is not anti-muslim... hes just warning catholics of what will happen if they marry a muslim husband. How would you feel if you married a muslim country and went back to his country? Would you wear a viel over your face? I doubt it. I'm all for women's rights, but men also have rights too. Just to point out that I do not favor just women, but men also. Its true, women do not have very many rights like we do.
    covering the face is not forced by islam, its only required if the women is so pretty and her beauty might raise some issues to other men.

    its proven that muslim girls that isn't following islam rules in the dressing they face some sort of annoy from other teen/guys.
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  13. #13
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    I just read first few lines and i really didn't think there was a need to read the whole thing. Calling women "the least protected member of the Muslim family" I don't even want to go into this but he needs some one to update him on this.

    First now that we are all educated here shouldn't the women work it out with her busband before they get married etc.
    anyhow there is no law abt covering a women face but don't expect to a wear a mini skirt and walking through the streets of a muslim country either. That is our culture our religion there is no wrong or right if some one isn't happy just convert to another religion which allows them to do all that islam does not allow. Just don't go and live there simple as that.

    I live in NYC and you would see many young girls covering their faces here and many aren't no one is forcing them...they can choose to cover it and if they don't want too they won't. If you saw what was happening in france you would be know that most of the muslim women wanted to cover their faces and weren't happy...this should tell you that it isn't forced and it isn't like muslim women aren't happy and islam recommends it for a reason...which is made very clear...for their own protection...comparing the rape rates would simply give you the answere to this.

  14. #14
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    If the marriage is registered in the consulate of a Muslim country, the document said, the Catholic must be careful not to sign a document or swear an oath including the shahada, the Islamic profession of faith, which would amount to converting.
    The way I see it, that's the gist of the message.
    The rest is just stuff that warns about what might happen, under certain circumstances.

    Over here in Singapore, there isnt a culture of human rights abuses by the Muslim community, any more than by the other religious (or racial, for that matter) communities.

    Yet Catholics around here (including myself) are still advised not to marry Muslims, because they are likely to have to convert to Islam in order to do so.
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