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  1. #1
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    the difference between 99,9% and 100%

    do you know some hosting company that guarantees 100% uptime?
    i was thinking if it's a good idea to open one on this line...
    prices would be around 80% higher because the way to have this would be having 2 servers (of course the secondary server doesn't need to be as powerful as the first one)
    they could be balanced too

    some sites just can't get off-line... and are not big enough to buy a dedicated (in this case, 2)

    well... anyway, i'm sure i'm not the first one to think that...

  2. #2
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    A company such as Rackspace may be able to assist you with you needs in this instance.
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  3. #3
    Every hosting company offers 99.9% uptime guarantee that I've seen. Just my opinion though

  4. #4
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    I think 99.9% of customers will be happy with 99.9% uptime.

  5. #5
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    Seems like a lot of the % is just mareting ploys. Unless the host has verified the uptime by a third party or has the data to back it up, it usually doesn't hold much weight with me.

  6. #6
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    Its all about the marketing!!!

  7. #7
    Originally posted by iblive
    Seems like a lot of the % is just mareting ploys. Unless the host has verified the uptime by a third party or has the data to back it up, it usually doesn't hold much weight with me.
    No, it's not. I built systems with 99.9, 99.99, and 99.999. The ratio in the cost of the systems built with "three nines" and "five nines" for the same application is around 50 - 100. And maybe more – it depends on the adapted methodology of estimation and complicity of an application. In practical sense, the "three nines" is equal to 8 Hours, 46 minutes downtime per year and "five nines" is equal to 32 seconds.

    Peter.

  8. #8
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    My statement was an opinion. I did not say that it doesn't "mean anything" in the literal sense. I meant that I don't give it much weight when someone claims they have a specific % uptime.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by iblive
    My statement was an opinion. I did not say that it doesn't "mean anything" in the literal sense. I meant that I don't give it much weight when someone claims they have a specific % uptime.
    That exactly what I meant - practical implication. There are places where downtime for any reason - system reboot, upgrades, etc in addition to a real failure is not acceptable.

    Peter.

  10. #10
    Originally posted by pnorilsk
    In practical sense, the "three nines" is equal to 8 Hours, 46 minutes downtime per year and "five nines" is equal to 32 seconds.

    Peter.
    Sorry, I made a mistake, "five nines" would correlate to 5 minutes, 15 seconds downtime per year. I never built "six nines" system - it's too complicated.. In fact I don't know if any around.

    Peter.

  11. #11
    The difference between 99.9% and 100% is that one is a realistic assessment of uptime, and the other is impossible.

    100% uptime is almost as dodgy as unlimited bandwidth- instead of saying, "If you need 100 TB of bandwidth, you've got it..." hosts are saying, "Over the course of the next 50 years, we will NEVER have a server problem..."
    If the bigger hosts are fancy French restaurants, consider my service the friendly small-town diner.
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  12. #12
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    Amen, HostMidwest.
    --

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by HostMidwest
    The difference between 99.9% and 100% is that one is a realistic assessment of uptime, and the other is impossible.

    100% uptime is almost as dodgy as unlimited bandwidth- instead of saying, "If you need 100 TB of bandwidth, you've got it..." hosts are saying, "Over the course of the next 50 years, we will NEVER have a server problem..."
    if you have 2 servers, on 2 datacenters, with 2 different OS, that's very improbably that both stop working at the same time

  14. #14
    Originally posted by Lem0nHead
    if you have 2 servers, on 2 datacenters, with 2 different OS, that's very improbably that both stop working at the same time
    True... however, from my understanding of how the internet works, that's very tough to set up.

    One possibility is configuring a switch or a router to switch from one server to a backup if something bad happens. However, that takes a lot of coordination, and you end up with the switch or router as a point of failure... I doubt that even a CISCO router can stay up forever without experiencing problems.
    If the bigger hosts are fancy French restaurants, consider my service the friendly small-town diner.
    HostMidwest.com- you deserve honest, helpful, and reliable service!

  15. #15
    Originally posted by HostMidwest
    True... however, from my understanding of how the internet works, that's very tough to set up.

    One possibility is configuring a switch or a router to switch from one server to a backup if something bad happens. However, that takes a lot of coordination, and you end up with the switch or router as a point of failure... I doubt that even a CISCO router can stay up forever without experiencing problems.
    Yes, it's correct. We call it "definition of a single point of failure" and its elimination. So, doubling of the system resource will provide the "High Availability" (HA). The 99.9 and up is a different case. You must estimate or approximate "Mean Time Between Failures" (MTBF) and "Mean Time To Repair" (MTTR) along all system including hardware and software. Then you will be able to calculate the “Availability Coefficient” of your system. As I mentioned before, I have an experience with this type of a system design. If anybody need help with a setup of this type of system let me know. I will be able to assist.

    Peter.

  16. #16
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    pnorilsk, when i read your MTBF and MTTR I almost felt like I was back in university.

    MTBF and MTTR are never 0 in our world, so 100% uptime is not achievable, not even in theory. 99.(9) maybe (theoretically), but not 100%.

  17. #17
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    www.oxeo.com offers 100% uptime

  18. #18
    Originally posted by Jesse_613
    www.oxeo.com offers 100% uptime
    Then Oxeo engages in false advertising...
    If the bigger hosts are fancy French restaurants, consider my service the friendly small-town diner.
    HostMidwest.com- you deserve honest, helpful, and reliable service!

  19. #19
    Originally posted by Jesse_613
    www.oxeo.com offers 100% uptime
    Yep, they do. I spent time and put some effort to explain that when you say 99.9 or anything along this line you better be ready to explain it and stand behind these numbers. This is where MTBF and MTTR came from (makes some people including myself slightly dizzy). But, this is the only way to come up with something like 99.9. I don't know what to say about 100% - it's beyond me.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by HostMidwest
    Then Oxeo engages in false advertising...
    yep! booo.

    http://www.oxeo.com/terms.html
    100% Uptime Guarantee
    We reserve the right to 15 minutes of scheduled maintenance every month. If your server is down longer then 15 minutes you will receive 5% off your monthly bill and another 5% for every 10 minutes thereafter.

  21. #21
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    Exactly, 100% uptime can not be offered. All servers need updates and patches. To try and synchronize two servers in two different datacenters, paying twice the costs as well as extreme amounts of wasted bandwidth to do so, is not worth the efforts of the near impossible task.
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Amdac
    Exactly, 100% uptime can not be offered. All servers need updates and patches. To try and synchronize two servers in two different datacenters, paying twice the costs as well as extreme amounts of wasted bandwidth to do so, is not worth the efforts of the near impossible task.
    yes...
    all servers need updates and patches, but NOT AT THE SAME TIME

    that's my point here...
    you can use secondary DNS for that

    or have someone here already saw google/yahoo/aol off-line?

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Lem0nHead
    yes...
    all servers need updates and patches, but NOT AT THE SAME TIME

    that's my point here...
    you can use secondary DNS for that

    or have someone here already saw google/yahoo/aol off-line?
    Now using simple logic, think about the bandwidth required to constantly copy the hard drive data back and forth between two datacenters to keep them sychronized.

    Also, I have seen yahoo offline several years ago during a major DDoS attack.
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by Jesse_613
    www.oxeo.com offers 100% uptime
    There's a difference between providing a 100% uptime SLA, and providing 100% uptime.

  25. #25
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    that's my point here...
    you can use secondary DNS for that
    DNS servers are chosen in random order, not NS1 then NS2 etc.

  26. #26
    Hello there,

    Most customers would be happy with 99.9% Uptime, however the host may not be offering that. When in fact the uptime is in its 80s, they can simply explain to the customer that the 0.1% obviously has kicked in... weird.

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