Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1

    Do not buy templates from HOOVERWEBDESIGN.COM

    Today I went in search of a pizza website template. I would have done this site myself but time does not permit since the store is opening today.

    I find a template from HOOVERWEBDESIGN.COM. Odering the template turned into a crazy process. I entered in my credit card, submited and expected a e-mail with a link to download.

    I get a e-mail with a link, the link does not go to the template, insted it goes to a form where you have to re enter your name phone e-mail address, what site you will be using it on agree to the terms and so. So I fill this out and notice that it will take up to 24 hours. I needed it today, so I send this e-mail to them:

    "I order a template then after the order have to fill out a freakin form again to order it? What kind of crap is this? Then to find out that it will take up too 24 hours to get? I need this today, in 24 hours I could do it myself. Maybe you should think about changing your order script so when you order a template you sign the agreement at the same time. Hope this template comes in before 5pm."

    Then I get this e-mail back,

    "I'll refund the order.

    Gina
    Hoover Web Design"

    So I send off another mail:

    "Why the hell have you done that? Did I say I wanted a refund, no, I said I wanted the template in less than 24 hours. Do I have to now reorder this? "

    I get no reply so I call and leave a message. Wait a few hours and call again, I get this lady on the phone, explain what I have done to order. She says that from my first e-mail she thought I wanted the order canceled. Note that the last line from the e-mail says I need this by 5pm. Then she goes off on a rant saying that she will not do business with me becuase of my attitude ( I used the word hell).

    I dont care what words I used, this place does not know how to do business.

    In the end I went to template monster, paid 59 insted of 40 bucks, but got my template right away.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    WebHostingTalk
    Posts
    8,901

    Re: Do not buy templates from HOOVERWEBDESIGN.COM

    Originally posted by sethgarnar
    Today I went in search of a pizza website template. I would have done this site myself but time does not permit since the store is opening today.

    I find a template from HOOVERWEBDESIGN.COM. Odering the template turned into a crazy process. I entered in my credit card, submited and expected a e-mail with a link to download.

    I get a e-mail with a link, the link does not go to the template, insted it goes to a form where you have to re enter your name phone e-mail address, what site you will be using it on agree to the terms and so. So I fill this out and notice that it will take up to 24 hours. I needed it today, so I send this e-mail to them:

    "I order a template then after the order have to fill out a freakin form again to order it? What kind of crap is this? Then to find out that it will take up too 24 hours to get? I need this today, in 24 hours I could do it myself. Maybe you should think about changing your order script so when you order a template you sign the agreement at the same time. Hope this template comes in before 5pm."

    Then I get this e-mail back,

    "I'll refund the order.

    Gina
    Hoover Web Design"

    So I send off another mail:

    "Why the hell have you done that? Did I say I wanted a refund, no, I said I wanted the template in less than 24 hours. Do I have to now reorder this? "

    I get no reply so I call and leave a message. Wait a few hours and call again, I get this lady on the phone, explain what I have done to order. She says that from my first e-mail she thought I wanted the order canceled. Note that the last line from the e-mail says I need this by 5pm. Then she goes off on a rant saying that she will not do business with me becuase of my attitude ( I used the word hell).

    I dont care what words I used, this place does not know how to do business.

    In the end I went to template monster, paid 59 insted of 40 bucks, but got my template right away.
    I would have done the same thing... looks like a business that doesn't want to deal with someone who is a jerk.

    Good to hear you found the template on template monster.

    Good luck.

    Sirius
    I support the Human Rights Campaign!
    Moving to the Tampa, Florida area? Check out life in the suburbs in Trinity, Florida.

  3. #3
    Im a jerk because I got upset that they canceled my order for no reason?

  4. #4
    Maybe you could do something about the language you use in your emails, even if there is a problem, no one likes this kind of language

  5. #5
    I usualy do not use such lang in a mail, but with opening a new pizza shop and needing the site to get done along with run another business im stressin a bit. Having to fill out one form then order then fill out another is to me a crappy ordering system. Then to have my order canceled when the last line of the e-mail is I need this by 5 really set me off.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    WebHostingTalk
    Posts
    8,901
    Originally posted by sethgarnar
    I usualy do not use such lang in a mail, but with opening a new pizza shop and needing the site to get done along with run another business im stressin a bit. Having to fill out one form then order then fill out another is to me a crappy ordering system. Then to have my order canceled when the last line of the e-mail is I need this by 5 really set me off.
    A lack of planning on your part is not their fault. Tough noogies.

    Sirius
    I support the Human Rights Campaign!
    Moving to the Tampa, Florida area? Check out life in the suburbs in Trinity, Florida.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Kalamazoo
    Posts
    33,412
    Originally posted by sethgarnar
    . . . Then to have my order canceled when the last line of the e-mail is I need this by 5 really set me off.
    I would never had seen the last line of your email had I been on the receiving end. Perhaps they take the same approach.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    ./Southest Missouri
    Posts
    602
    I'd have to say that's a pretty harsh response to a company that is more than likely only interested in protecting their investment and attempting to prevent fraud. I'm sure if someone had ahold of your credit card and was trying to order a template from them, you'd certainly appreciate that extra order form and 24 hour wait.

    I'd be willing to bet that most people that are in business for themselves do so because they enjoy what they do, not because they have a fetish for abusive customers.

    As previously stated, I don't do business with abusive or rude individuals either. I've turned away quite a few people in the past for just such a reason. I enjoy my job far too much to let it be ruined by some person who missed the day of Kindergarten when they taught manners.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    902

    Re: Do not buy templates from HOOVERWEBDESIGN.COM

    Originally posted by sethgarnar

    I dont care what words I used, this place does not know how to do business.
    There is always two sides to this story. You seem to have a problem communicating when you are under stress. Your emails come across rude and unprofessional. Hopefully the new business will be stress-free. Good luck.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Bluesquare dc, Uk
    Posts
    1,591
    Greetings,

    I'm afraid with that kind of tone, you make no friends whatsoever. That is nothing personal, simply an obeservation. Good luck.
    Olly | INX-Gaming
    Call of Duty 4 hosting

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,920
    Lucky for us you quoted yourself so there is no real need for the other side of the story. As we (those who posted here) can't be all wrong, it means that you were wrong when using that kind of language.

    This was reason enough for them not to want you as a customer and it's a very serious reason for you to think twice before using such words (when doing business or otherwise).

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    690
    For the record, I have used HooverWebDesigns in the past and have had excellent communications with them. I have also dealt with them on a copyright issue (a user had ripped their website) and had nothing but professional dealings.

    I think perhaps you (the poster) should consider the wording you use when conversing with people via email, it's called "tone of type" and you definitely relayed a negative image of yourself here.

    Good luck but in my opinion your post is incorrect and I likely would have done the same thing Hoover did.
    Ryan Porter, Owner
    Extreme Internet Solutions
    Quality Hosting Solutions -- Affordable Prices
    Providing Fabulous Hosting and Unreal Web Design! Excellence is our focus.

  13. #13
    hmm thanks for the info!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    191
    would have treated you the same

    you may have had a valid issue, but you came across as a jerk, and moreso, a dumbass. When voiceing a complaint, be prim and proper.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    339
    i would have done the same to you too
    how do they know your situation?
    saying "What kind of crap is this?" in your first email isnt on
    laslo.ca
    Quality Canadian Web Hosting

  16. #16
    Those People Sound like total idiots! LOL, They thought you wanted to cancel,

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    169
    you a friend of seth?

    they are people too with feelings, everybody makes mistakes...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Waco, TX
    Posts
    5,623
    From the email I read from you, I can't tell the difference in someone that is in a rush for legit reasons, and someone that is in a rush to get a template before the credit card company fraud dept is notified.

  19. #19
    I would like to address some of Seth's comments.

    First of all, I make the ordering process clear so that the customer knows what to expect before they place their order. This gives the customer the opportunity to choose whether or not to place an order. I do try to make a lot of information available to my customers about the products and the ordering process. I realize that nobody wants to get something that they didn't expect.

    It usually does not take 24 hours to receive your product. Normally it's within the hour. All of the orders are screened manually. Orders that appear to be fraudulent do take longer to verify.

    The reason for the template agreement form is simple. Some people will buy a digital product without reading the license agreement. Later on they will come back and say "I wasn't aware that I couldn't do whatever, I want my money back!". I want to be positive that my customers are aware of the license for my products.

    I run my business the way I do to limit fraud, chargebacks and copyright infringement. So far what I am doing is working. I don't have many chargebacks and you don't see my templates on ebay like other template sellers.

    I must admit when customers email me and demand their product 1 minute after the sale, it does raise a red flag. I don't offer instant download and this is noted on my web site. Perhaps the customer could be in a hurry because they are using a stolen credit card?

    Another red flag is a rude email. Profanity is the icing on the cake. As a general practice, I don't do business with individuals that are rude and unprofessional. I'm a nice person. I like to sell products to nice people.

    I do appreciate the comments on this board.

    Gina Hoover

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    249
    I think the original poster did you a service by advertising your site

    You do seem to have some nice templates and decent prices.

    I do have a couple of comments about your license agreement.

    I find the link removal fee to make your prices seem dishonest. The templates are basically useless without paying this extra fee. Why would anyone pay you to advertise your site for you?

    It would be nice if you would waive moral rights to the templates. While this is not 100% necessary for your templates to be useful, you go overboard in the restrictions; I can't claim intellectual property ownership of my website if I use your templates. You also pass restrictions on the type of content that can be on a site with one of your templates.

    Your license prevents a transfer of copyright. This is explicitly illegal under US copyright law and violates the Berne Convention. Even though any court would disregard this clause, it is of course not going to court over ~$50, so your customers lose their legally enforced rights. This restriction also specifically forbids selling the entire site without the new owner paying you a second time for the template.

    It seems like you tie the template to the site. If I decide a site isn't working out, I can't take the template I've already paid for and use it on a new site.

    From your website:
    If you lost your template you would have to purchase the template again. Doesn't seem fair? Let's say you bought a toaster from Walmart and lost it during a move. Would you ask Walmart to replace your toaster?
    This really sums up the problems with your attitude towards your customers. If I'd read that before I started this post, I probably wouldn't have considered you worth the time to post.

    If you do searches for your templates as you claim to see people using them without paying, you certainly know who is entitled to be using them, and you can allow them to download another copy.

    Anyway, I do think you have nice templates at nice prices, but you are very, very customer-hostile. I don't see how anyone can understand your license terms and still do business with you. I certainly would keep looking.

  21. #21
    You are entitled to your opinion although I do not agree with it. I do not call giving my customers the option of buying their template at a lower price dishonest. Before you pay full price for a template wouldn't it be nice to try out the template first? Then if you like the template you can pay the whole price for it.

    Regarding transferring a template to another url. All the customer has to do is email me the new url. I believe this goes out to customers in the email that contains the download link. To clarify this, I will add it to my website's FAQ.

    Regarding re-downloading products. I do let customers re-download their products on some occasions, but I don't advertise this. A while ago I had a customer who lost their web template. They didn't contact me and just ordered a replacement web template. When I got the order I credited the customer's money and sent them the template's download link. This from a company who has a hostile attitude toward the customer. The comment about the toaster is there so that customers will keep up with their purchases.

    Gina Hoover

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    769
    I would have cancelled your order as well - perhaps if you'd take your time to read their FAQ, you'd realise that they promise to deliver WITHIN 24 hours and not immediately:
    http://www.hooverwebdesign.com/templates/faq.html

    So this is your fault for not reading what they have displayed so clearly.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    249
    Originally posted by hooverweb [b]
    You are entitled to your opinion although I do not agree with it. I do not call giving my customers the option of buying their template at a lower price dishonest. Before you pay full price for a template wouldn't it be nice to try out the template first? Then if you like the template you can pay the whole price for it.
    A template is a starting framework for developing a site, if you pay for it, it's assumed you don't have to put ads for the person you bought it from on your site. If you were honest about it, you'd put the "real" price up and somewhere else mention the "discount" for displaying your ad.

    Originally posted by hooverweb
    Regarding transferring a template to another url. All the customer has to do is email me the new url. I believe this goes out to customers in the email that contains the download link. To clarify this, I will add it to my website's FAQ.
    Oh, so a customer has to ask your permission to use intellectual property they paid for a license to use. Not only that, but that's only after you clarify your license because right now, it's quite clear that it's a total loss. That violates the fair use portion of the copyright act.

    Originally posted by hooverweb
    Regarding re-downloading products. I do let customers re-download their products on some occasions, but I don't advertise this. A while ago I had a customer who lost their web template. They didn't contact me and just ordered a replacement web template. When I got the order I credited the customer's money and sent them the template's download link. This from a company who has a hostile attitude toward the customer. The comment about the toaster is there so that customers will keep up with their purchases.
    You claim you do this. This is definatly contrary to your stated policies, and those are worded in a very hostile way. Is a new customer supposed to take your word for it here when on your own site you say your policy is screw the customer?

    I just did a quick search for template sites. The first one that came up on google is www.atemplate.com. I had a quick look at their terms of use. Once you pay the fee, there is no link-back requirement, and you have unlimited rights to use the template in as many sites as you want, be they your own or sites you've built for others for a fee.

    The also waive all moral rights, the customer can claim full IP rights over their site. The only restriction is that you can't resell copies of their templates.

    Their prices are already cheaper than yours, and when you consider your price doubles without the ad link, and then quadruples to use it on two sites, your prices are insanely high, and your cost of ownership is even higher if the customer has to keep coming back to you to do anything with the template.

    Based on my experience with template sites, the atemplate license is the industry norm.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Waco, TX
    Posts
    5,623
    The also waive all moral rights, the customer can claim full IP rights over their site. The only restriction is that you can't resell copies of their templates.
    This is like an oxymoron here, how is it their IP they bought a TEMPLATE, if they want to have a custom template that is wholly their then that could be IP, becasue they pay someone to make it, but buying a generic template is not IP.

    And, these policies are stated up front, get over it, it is very clear what you get. Personally I prefer someone that lays it all out and lets you know. I have not even been to this site, nor do I care to go, I have no need for templates, I think this whole situation was handled right and Gina Hoover is responding very professionally to all of this.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    249
    Originally posted by amd_duron
    This is like an oxymoron here, how is it their IP they bought a TEMPLATE, if they want to have a custom template that is wholly their then that could be IP, becasue they pay someone to make it, but buying a generic template is not IP.
    The customer takes a template, and puts a lot of effort into make a site based on that. Because of the overly-restrictive policies of this template provider, the user doesn't have the right to sell their site. The also lose the right to take credit for creating the site.

    The template is a tool to aid. If you use frontpage to create the site, you don't have to give microsoft that kind of control over your site.

    You can't copy and distribute frontpage, and similairly you can't copy and distribute the template, but you should have every other right.

    If you buy a hoover template, you can't even have a screen shot of your site published.

    Anyway, it's a moot point. Why in the world would anyone buy a template from that site when there are hundreds of template sites that don't have those silly restrictions.

    You said yourself you'd never be a customer of her site. It would be interesting to hear from people who do buy templates and see if they'd ever consider buying one of hers after reading her license restrictions.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •