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  1. #1
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    Resellers, That Allow You To Resell Resellers Accounts

    Say that 3 times fast! lol

    But anyways, does anyone know of any companies that offer such, i know that they are out there, its just a matter of finding them.
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  2. #2
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    I'd imagine most will let you if you ask - try putting in a host quote with your specific requirements, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/request.php

    Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Not very likely as that defeats the whole purpose of the reseller account and adds another middleman.
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  4. #4
    I can't see many companies really caring what the reseller did. To the company, they get the same amount of money and spend the same costs whehter the reseller sells reseller accounts or not.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by pixel_fenix
    Not very likely as that defeats the whole purpose of the reseller account and adds another middleman.
    How does it defeat the whole purpose of a Reseller Account?

    What it DOES DO is create new revenue stream for the server!

    A nice one too.

  6. #6
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    These are called "Power Resellers" and some hosts provide them. There is software floating around and few hosts have it.
    Cory Pippen
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by CPQIS Evan
    These are called "Power Resellers" and some hosts provide them. There is software floating around and few hosts have it.
    Actually, I call them Sub-Resellers. I wrote the script.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by cPanelSubs
    How does it defeat the whole purpose of a Reseller Account?

    What it DOES DO is create new revenue stream for the server!

    A nice one too.
    You're only saying that because you developed a product to exploit it

    Now, from a business standpoint, yes, it does defeat the purpose of offering reseller accounts.

    Brand dilution would be the main concern here. Throw in tiering problems, and you've got yourself a whole mess, that is just not pretty.

    If you want to offer reseller accounts, and are serious about your business, get a dedicated server, at the very least.

    When you have spent years building a brand, successfully, you'll understand my point. Brand dilution is not, or should not be, an option for any serious company, wishing to have a bright future.

    I can understand giving 'reseller account creation' access to a few select customers, but offering it as a sales tool is like putting up a 'going out of business' sign. It's just a matter of time, as the company offering it, smells a little too much like money-grabbing.

    There is, of course, the odd exception to the rule. httpme, I believe (Voxtreme may have disabled this option), offer this function. They however have the most unique setup that is currently in the hosting sector, and can pull it off, without losing much brand awareness.

    Simon

  9. #9
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    Whatever...

    It's a darn good idea, but you would not know, beacuse your probably commenting about something you have never even tried much less done any sort of martket research on.

    "brand dilution" "tiering problems"

    Your so experienced Whoo Hoo!

  10. #10
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    You're on a Hosting forum, and you expect Hosting Company employees and/or representatives to not comment on the business aspect of things?

    So, leaving your childish insults aside;


    My post did not reference market research, not in the slightest, nor did it reference anything even remotely related.


    My post is about brand awareness of the company, at tier one level. It references the importance of keeping your brand active, and well known, it does not reference to what resellers want, regarding the option side of things.


    Something we state to our resellers, that constantly ask for the best way to develop their growing business, is that brand awareness is #1, from the marketing aspect. Targeting, and keeping your sights set on your specific niche is an absolute must.


    When you grow up, and learn to speak with some respect, then maybe we could discuss the matter further. It is a question that if you wish to develop your idea, you are going to have to come to grips with.


    I am sure that you are not releasing a 'one-time' product, and I'm also sure that you wish to develop your business, and offerings.

    This question will come up from any potential clients of yours, sometime in the future, providing you are going to target outside of the WHT arena.


    FYI: we do plenty of market research

    FYI-2: No, we have not tried "your" idea, and would never consider doing so. We wish to stay in the public eye for our sector, as we have done so in the past, and will do so for a long time to come.

    Simon
    EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network.

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by cPanelSubs
    Actually, I call them Sub-Resellers. I wrote the script.
    You act like your the only one...
    Cory Pippen
    San Diego Direct Web, LLC
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by CPQIS Evan
    You act like your the only one...
    This is the only secure real commercial product available.

    The others are hacks. Show me one. I'll show you a hole.

  13. #13
    Why would I want to have an account with another reseller?
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  14. #14
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    FYI, we didn't disable the aforementioned option.
    Matthew Russell | Namecheap
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  15. #15
    does anyone understand this thread anymore?

    Or more to the point - what?

  16. #16
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    Re: Resellers, That Allow You To Resell Resellers Accounts

    Originally posted by shotgun7
    . . . But anyways, does anyone know of any companies that offer such, i know that they are out there, its just a matter of finding them.
    Most reseller suppliers will let you purchase a reseller account on your client's behalf, and then pass that account onto your client. Your supplier charges you for the reseller account, and you inturn charge your client. You do have to provide direct tech support for your client, as this is not your reseller supplier's responsibility. They support you and you support your client.

    If hosts are setting up reseller accounts, that allow other resellers to setup other Reseller accounts, the server is as good as dead. It might hold up for a little while, but that won't last. The reseller model by itself is hard enough for servers, and you cannot have a 2nd level of resellers under the 1st level, reselling from that space.

    You cannot have resellers setting up full reseller accounts for other resellers, as there is a very strict number of allowable resellers per server, and this has to be controlled by the head supplier, and not controlled by resellers.

    Sure, the option for resellers setting up reseller accounts, might look good for some hosts not ready for a dedicated server, but take my word for it, that server will choke up in the coming months. If you're a reseller on a server that is allowing resellers to setup reseller accounts, run while you still can.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  17. #17
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    Re: Re: Resellers, That Allow You To Resell Resellers Accounts

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Most reseller suppliers will let you purchase a reseller account on your client's behalf, and then pass that account onto your client. Your supplier charges you for the reseller account, and you inturn charge your client. You do have to provide direct tech support for your client, as this is not your reseller supplier's responsibility. They support you and you support your client.

    If hosts are setting up reseller accounts, that allow other resellers to setup other Reseller accounts, the server is as good as dead. It might hold up for a little while, but that won't last. The reseller model by itself is hard enough for servers, and you cannot have a 2nd level of resellers under the 1st level, reselling from that space.

    You cannot have resellers setting up full reseller accounts for other resellers, as there is a very strict number of allowable resellers per server, and this has to be controlled by the head supplier, and not controlled by resellers.

    Sure, the option for resellers setting up reseller accounts, might look good for some hosts not ready for a dedicated server, but take my word for it, that server will choke up in the coming months. If you're a reseller on a server that is allowing resellers to setup reseller accounts, run while you still can.
    The only thing you mention here that has any truth to it is the part about the the number of resellers needing to be controlled by the "head supplier". This is true.

    So make sure your software does that for you and you have more than just a handful of scripts.

    As far as the rest, about how the "server will choke up in the coming months" ? Any server will choke up in the coming months without proper care and maintanence.

  18. #18
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    ultraunix.net just started offering their "magic resellers" program

  19. #19
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    Fergus has developed a cPanel add-on like Fantastico that allows resellers to create reseller IMMEDIATELY. We have tried it and have no problem with it thus far other than the ability to import existing resellers but I believe the feature is coming soon...

  20. #20
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    Re: Re: Re: Resellers, That Allow You To Resell Resellers Accounts

    Originally posted by cPanelSubs
    The only thing you mention here that has any truth to it is the part about the the number of resellers needing to be controlled by the "head supplier". This is true.

    I am talking from years of experience up to managing 28 reseller servers, when I sold HTTPme. I have the runs on the board and credibility to speak of such matters. Unlike you, I have no financial interest in this discussion.

    Allowing your resellers the ability to create other reseller accounts, leaves the server open to a greater chance of instability. That's a no brainer. You can only have "X" number of resellers on any given server. Increase the number of resellers, by allowing resellers to setup resellers, and you expodentially increase the chances of server instability.
    . . . As far as the rest, about how the "server will choke up in the coming months" ? Any server will choke up in the coming months without proper care and maintanence.
    Yes, but you don't increase the chances of server instability, by doing things like that. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  21. #21
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    Please keep this topic back on track. Take the flaming off here.

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by UltraUnixNET
    Please keep this topic back on track.

    Posts are perfectly ontopic.
    Take the flaming off here.
    Noone is flaming.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  23. #23
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    Re: Resellers, That Allow You To Resell Resellers Accounts

    Originally posted by shotgun7
    Say that 3 times fast! lol

    But anyways, does anyone know of any companies that offer such, i know that they are out there, its just a matter of finding them.
    Thread starter wanted to know any providers that could fulfill his needs. Did not ask for server stability or what-so-ever.

  24. #24
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    Yea - i agree completely offtopic. the man only wanted to know a basic question and someone hijacked his thread.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by cPanelSubs
    Whatever...

    It's a darn good idea, but you would not know, beacuse your probably commenting about something you have never even tried much less done any sort of martket research on.

    "brand dilution" "tiering problems"

    Your so experienced Whoo Hoo!
    Simon's been in the game a long time and knows his stuff. He can speak with credibility gained from real life experience over a long period. I can't believe you would be actually mocking him for discussing aspects of this flawed concept. Really bad form.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  26. #26
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    Re: Re: Resellers, That Allow You To Resell Resellers Accounts

    Originally posted by UltraUnixNET
    Thread starter wanted to know any providers that could fulfill his needs. Did not ask for server stability or what-so-ever.
    Well we are discussing aspects of resellers setting up reseller accounts. The thread evolved slightly, as they do from time to time. If you feel the thread is off-topic, have a mod delete all the so called off-topic posts.

    I hope the thread starter takes some of the advice that's been offered in this thread, and steer clear of any server that allows resellers to setup other resellers.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  27. #27
    Greetings:

    Imagine your the customer of Company Z who resells for Company Y who resells for Company X and so on.

    You call Company Z for support.

    They don't know the answer; they tell you they will get back to you.

    Company Z calls Company Y for support. They don't know either; Comany Y will get back to Company Z.

    Then company Y calls Company X for support. They don't know either; Comany X will get back to Company Y.

    And so on while the poor customer is left hanging.

    Sigh.

    Thank you.
    ---
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  28. #28
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    If someone comes up here asking for help in finding reseller accounts with unlimited space/data transfer you'd just refer him to someone? I don't think so. You'd try to explain what's wrong with that business model.

    This is what Aussie Bob and Simon tried to do. They offered an educated opinion on this. It's up to the thread starter to act or not on it, agree/disagree with their opinion. He/she can also say "back on topic" or ask the moderators to trim the thread.

  29. #29
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    Times change and you have got to change with them. There are always new ways to do things. Better, faster, smarter, newer.

    Although it has been attempted in the past, some with good results and some with bad, it has not been done the way that it is being done now. That involves programming expertise not selling hosting.

    Change with the times or be left behind.

    Of course, you can always catch up later. So i suggest to anyone with doubts to just sit back and watch the results of others that use this NEW way of doing it.

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by dynamicnet
    And so on while the poor customer is left hanging.
    Exactly. Offerring reseller accounts is a whole new ball game than just standard hosting. You need to have your act together and be on the ball, otherwise a client purchasing a reseller account from another reseller, is going to be more than likely let down, through the extended chain of support.

    Anyways, that's my opinion.
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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Exactly. Offerring reseller accounts is a whole new ball game than just standard hosting. You need to have your act together and be on the ball, otherwise a client purchasing a reseller account from another reseller, is going to be more than likely let down, through the extended chain of support.

    Anyways, that's my opinion.
    Unless the support chain is built into it

  32. #32
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    Originally posted by cPanelSubs
    Times change and you have got to change with them. There are always new ways to do things. Better, faster, smarter, newer.

    Although it has been attempted in the past, some with good results and some with bad, it has not been done the way that it is being done now. That involves programming expertise not selling hosting.

    Change with the times or be left behind.

    Of course, you can always catch up later. So i suggest to anyone with doubts to just sit back and watch the results of others that use this NEW way of doing it.
    Experience says otherwise, but you obviously know better.

    Good luck (you will all need it) to anyone venturing down this path. I have said my bit, and tried to warn folks, so we'll leave it there.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
    Host Multiple Domains on Fast Australian Servers!!

  33. #33
    Me to my Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    my Reseller to his Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    his Reseller to his Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    his Reseller to root Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    Root Reseller to his client: No
    his client to his client: No
    his client to his client: No
    his client to Me: No
    Me to my Reseller: Why not?
    ...

    * forgive me, I'm bored *

    Mulder
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by cPanelSubs
    Unless the support chain is built into it
    I don't think you misunderstand what we mean by support chain. You cannot build this into anything. It's the link from the Tier 2 reseller to his supplier (the Tier 1 reseller) who is linked to the main host, through whatever support channels are used. These are external to the actual server in question.

    Read through dynamicnet's post for a clearer understanding of the support chain in such a structure of allowing resellers to create other resellers.
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  35. #35
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    Originally posted by mulder
    Me to my Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    my Reseller to his Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    his Reseller to his Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    his Reseller to root Reseller: Can you install the latest patch for MySQL?
    Root Reseller to his client: No
    his client to his client: No
    his client to his client: No
    his client to Me: No
    Me to my Reseller: Why not?
    ...

    * forgive me, I'm bored *

    Mulder
    Haha, I think that would be the most extreme case.

    I do have to agree with Aussie Bob on this one. It basically dampens the amount of control you have over how many accounts are put on the server. Sure, you can limit their domains and such, but it seems like things would get out of hand quite fast.

    cPanelSubs does have a financial stake in this thread, and I think his position of having one is confirmed by practically taking credit for creating the idea of reselling reseller accounts.

    "I wrote the script."

    A little vain, eh?

    Also, those childish comments made to someone who very well does know what they are talking about removes all credibility that cPanelSubs might have had in my book.

    I wouldn't use a script from someone that has to make lame remarks to defend what it provides.

    That's just my $0.02, however.
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  36. #36
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    I do understand your fears, when you understand how it actually works, then you might not fear it so much. There's much more to it then a single little script.

    We will see what the future holds for this.

  37. #37
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    I would fear it from the fact that it's a single little script and that you can base an entire multi-level reselling platform around this.

    The exponential load it will ultimately put on the server is going to be pretty devastating, I'd imagine. Dangerous game to play.
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by voxtreme-matt
    I would fear it from the fact that it's a single little script and that you can base an entire multi-level reselling platform around this.

    The exponential load it will ultimately put on the server is going to be pretty devastating, I'd imagine. Dangerous game to play.
    Maybe you misunderstood the post above yours? It states clearly that it is NOT a single little script. Anyone who has tried it knows better.

    It automates what you would normally do to create a reseller account and even allows for moderation of it. Accounts that not authorized will not be created. The server administrator has ultimate control over what is created and the database that drives the software tracks all the users. It also has a built in support tracking and ordering system as well.

    The above comment you make "The exponential load it will ultimately put on the server is going to be pretty devastating, I'd imagine. Dangerous game to play." is simply unfounded.

    It is no different than any reseller having the ability to setup any other type of accounts as far as that is concerned.

    ALL quotas and permissions are accountable.

    Your argument has no fact, only specultation of how poorly it could be used if in the wrong hands. That idea could be applied to any type of account or server.

  39. #39
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    Resellers adding normal virtual accounts will represent a linear increase on server load. Resellers adding reseller accounts and virtual accounts, and the resold reseller accounts adding reseller accounts and virtual accounts can cause exponential load increases on the server easily. All it takes is a busy day for all of your resellers and the server is overwhelmed.

    I agree, similar situations can happen with normal reseller accounts, however resold reseller accounts add a whole new dimension to this.

    Basically, resold reseller accounts adds a whole new layer of potential problems. Your seeming inability to recognize or acknowledge this is pretty worrying, but it's your choice. I, for one, will be watching with interest.
    Matthew Russell | Namecheap
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  40. #40
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    Originally posted by voxtreme-matt
    Resellers adding reseller accounts and virtual accounts, and the resold reseller accounts adding reseller accounts and virtual accounts can cause exponential load increases on the server easily.
    The last two posts that you made had bad information in them. This staement is ALSO not correct and shows that you have NO understanding of what the program is.

    Of course your AFRAID of it.

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