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  1. #1
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    naked prisoner being led on a leash by a woman soldier

    after a great victory a kick in their own butts lol




    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3689267.stm

    Rumsfeld pressed over jail abuse

    In pictures: Prisoner abuse
    US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is facing mounting pressure, as a new set of photographs showing Iraqi prisoner abuse is published.

    President George W Bush is reportedly annoyed with the way Mr Rumsfeld handled the crisis over the photos.

    The newly-published photographs include one of a naked prisoner being led on a leash by a woman soldier.

    BBC Washington correspondent Justin Webb says it is possible that Mr Rumsfeld could be forced to resign.



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4...buse123_ap.jpg

    An American soldier points at the genitals of a naked Iraqi prisoner. (AP Photo/Courtesy of The New Yorke

  2. #2
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    Those soliders in the pictures need to be arrested, court marshalled and sentenced to life in prision.


    It angers me to see those pictures. Who the hell do they think they are putting a leash on someone and mistreating them like that?

    As an American, I'm not only upset at this allegations, but I'm sadden to see that our own soliders have the balls do something so disrespectful. They need to be punished at the highest extent of the law. What the hell are they thinking??

  3. #3
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    Thats terrible.
    This just gives a bad name to the whole army.
    They should be dismissed.. and then fine and/or jailed.
    If it was up to me.. i would have done what they did to the iraqis [to the americans responsible]

  4. #4
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    Reminds me of : 'Power corrupts , and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'


    What is worse is it is inviting a retaliation which will only cause more damage where the innocent will suffer.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by RajanUrs
    Reminds me of : 'Power corrupts , and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'


    What is worse is it is inviting a retaliation which will only cause more damage where the innocent will suffer.
    What is worse is without these pictures, the Government would have approached this in a different way, they would have brushed it off and denied any and all allegations.

    It angers me so much to think that these soliders were having a good time mistreating these Iraqis.

  6. #6
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    those soldiers should be stripped and handled just as those iraqis ... eye for eye, tooth for tooth I say.

    p.s : Yes, I can hear you people mumbling "but thatd make you just as bad" ... hell maybe but the tortured should gain justice and there nothing that will teach them a lesson better than giving them a taste of their own medicine. whoa big ps :p

  7. #7
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    I wonder ... why are so many people angry about it but nothing can be done about it ? Is the world that far up the bush administrations a$$ ??

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Cyrus
    those soldiers should be stripped and handled just as those iraqis ... eye for eye, tooth for tooth I say.

    p.s : Yes, I can hear you people mumbling "but thatd make you just as bad" ... hell maybe but the tortured should gain justice and there nothing that will teach them a lesson better than giving them a taste of their own medicine. whoa big ps :p
    Why torture them for a few hours? Hit them where it hurts, discharge them for the military, court marshall them, and ruin their life. If you are kicked out of the military, the best job one can get in the U.S. is cleaning bathrooms.

    They've embarassed the U.S. and shamed our name.

  9. #9
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    lolol im totally with you Rob83 ... sorry, I was being too kind there.

    Its inhumane to do such acts, dont think barbarians would even do that ! Hang them till death. simple.

  10. #10
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    The Washington Post says it cannot eliminate the possibility that some of the latest images were staged, but reporter Christian Davenport says he believes the pictures are authentic.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4..._abuse_wp3.jpg

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4...buse115_ap.jpg

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4...buse116_ap.jpg

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4...buse117_ap.jpg




    It is not possible to verify Mr Abed's account of his experiences in Abu Ghraib prison, although the abuse is consistent with the findings of a US Department of Defense investigation.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3689371.stm

  11. #11
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    the story in the last link makes my blood curdle ! If there was something worse than hanging those soldiers to death then I would be pleased to see it happen to them.

  12. #12
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    careful

    Originally posted by Cyrus
    those soldiers should be stripped and handled just as those iraqis ... eye for eye, tooth for tooth I say.

    p.s : Yes, I can hear you people mumbling "but thatd make you just as bad" ... hell maybe but the tortured should gain justice and there nothing that will teach them a lesson better than giving them a taste of their own medicine. whoa big ps :p
    we have to be careful in these types of statements- what if the iraqi prisoners were getting just that after doing bad things and being put in prison.

    oh yeah- forgot about that one eh? - lol

    well - my opionion on this - is that it is wrong - the soldiers if found guilty should be booted from the army and fined or imporisoned (whatever the law says).

    I also disagree with women being in a mens prison and vice versa - that is rediculous. can you imangine if these were male soldiers and female prisoners the outrage?? its disgusting and these few should not be allowed to tarnish the many.

    what are they thinking. these idiots need to be acted on quickly - but according to law.

    now - what should be done to muqtada al-sadr if he is captured? he is responsible for the deaths of hundreds.........
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  13. #13
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    I hope this means we will get the hell out. What saddens me more is the daily news of more dying.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Cyrus
    the story in the last link makes my blood curdle ! If there was something worse than hanging those soldiers to death then I would be pleased to see it happen to them.
    you are so uninformed and biased it is laughable. does this mean you want that done to the prisoners who may have also commited more heinous crimes than that including murder??

    come on dude - wh ydont you try being fair an unbiased across the board.

    they all should be tried according to the law - including the prisoners. what should we do to muqtada al-sadr who just sent 40 misguided iraqisto their deaths in najaf in the alst hour??
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  15. #15
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    Bush said the abuses were “terrible” for America’s image abroad. “I think people in the Middle East who want to dislike America will use this as an excuse to remind people about their dislike,” he told Al-Arabiya television, a satellite channel based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, that is popular around the Arab world
    Use this an excuse? Typical response. What are they suppose to do? Forgive the U.S?

    Afterward, White House press secretary Scott McClellan later used the word “sorry” a half-dozen times in a briefing for reporters. “The president is sorry for what occurred and the pain it has caused,” he said.

    Asked why Bush himself had not apologized, McClellan said: “I’m saying it now for him.
    Bush didn't even apologize. Now that's fudged up. Having someone else apologize for you. Shows us that Bush isn't too concerned about this issue.

    Source:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

  16. #16
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    Bush didn't even apologize. Now that's fudged up. Having someone else apologize for you. Shows us that Bush isn't too concerned about this issue.

    He certainly isn't concerned about the people of his own country so why would he be concerned about that?

  17. #17
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    I think this is terrible!!!!!!!

    THEY ARE JUST ASKING FORM THE IRAQ'S TO LASH BACK AT US HERE IN THE US!!!!!!

    Leave me out of this,i am totally against this whole stupid thing!!!!!!!!!

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  18. #18
    Unfortunately, I must say this: I believe that these images are only the tip of the iceberg. I mean c'mon for these images to exist suggests that it has happened 100x times more just not photographed (/leaked).

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Rob83
    Use this an excuse? Typical response. What are they suppose to do? Forgive the U.S?



    Bush didn't even apologize. Now that's fudged up. Having someone else apologize for you. Shows us that Bush isn't too concerned about this issue.

    Source:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by beowulfdk
    Unfortunately, I must say this: I believe that these images are only the tip of the iceberg. I mean c'mon for these images to exist suggests that it has happened 100x times more just not photographed (/leaked).
    In fact, the International Red Cross is now saying publicly that they'd reported similar abuses to US authorities several times for weeks before these pictures came out. So it appears that at least some level the US military was aware of what was going on but did nothing -- until the evidence became embarassingly public.
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  21. #21
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    Bush is an idiot,he wont apologize for this!!!!!!

    He's playing chicken,he is hiding while others fight his battles

    The Dude

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  22. #22
    an army that doesn't care to rape it's own female GIs, dosn't care for anything....

    http://www.drsusanblock.com/editoria...DenverPost.htm

    this even gets me more angry than the pics, i just read it yesterday.
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  23. #23
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    sailor: thinking about "what if"s and "may have"s about the prisnors in jail is not on. Whatever they have done, theyre in jail for. Torturing and abusing the prisnorrs is not humane or lawful. So why should the soldiers be tried with the current Laws ?? They should get as good (and more) as they give!

  24. #24
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    The soldiers must be dealt with in the harshest possible way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is terrible............

    Bush stays hidden though,what a p***y he really is,a coward no less!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doesnt even apologize,i am so fumed right now its not funny!!!!!

    The Dude

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  25. #25
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    If they are not taught the Geneva rules, then they must5 do what they need to do to get info.
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  26. #26
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    Someone said something about not taking any action if there were not pictures, don't you all know that there are already charges filed even before these came out? So, they HAD been doing something already, they are taking this very serious from what I can see.

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by Philipf
    If they are not taught the Geneva rules, then they must5 do what they need to do to get info.
    They have to be taught common sense and basic human dignity? "I was never taught the specifics of the Geneva Convention, so I assumed it was OK to strip prisoners, take humiliating photographs of them, make them simulate sex acts, threaten them with death by electrocution..." Is that the defense? I wouldn't think that many of the people reading about this in the papers and watching it on TV have been "taught the Geneva rules," but it seems that most of them have no hesitation judging this behavior as inappropriate... why would someone who's actually in the military need to be specifically told that it is?

    Secondly, as far as "what they need to get info," these are guards, not interrogators. None of the things being talked about happened during interrogation. There's certainly a fine line between "aggressive interrogation techniques" and abuse. But one reason why those techniques are properly used by trained interrogators is that they have been trained on what's effective and on what they can do while still staying within the bounds of the Geneva Convention and US military regulations.
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  28. #28
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    Originally posted by amd_duron
    Someone said something about not taking any action if there were not pictures, don't you all know that there are already charges filed even before these came out?
    Before the broadcast on 60 Minutes that made it public, yes. But the show's producers had already spoken to US authorities about it, and told them that they would broadcast it, weeks before -- that's when charges were filed.

    That's what President Bush is reportedly angered with Rumsfeld about... that the President wasn't informed and didn't know about it until it was made public on TV.
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  29. #29
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    Re: careful

    Originally posted by sailor
    now - what should be done to muqtada al-sadr if he is captured? he is responsible for the deaths of hundreds.........
    You are seeing muqtada al-sadr in these pictures? I believe no.

    Even if Al-sadr is responsible for the killings of hundreds, he too should be treated as he should be according to Iraqi laws or American laws or international laws, whatever is applicable. I believe written laws in USA don't allow mistreatment of prisoners, or do they.

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by Cyrus
    sailor: thinking about "what if"s and "may have"s about the prisnors in jail is not on. Whatever they have done, theyre in jail for. Torturing and abusing the prisnorrs is not humane or lawful. So why should the soldiers be tried with the current Laws ?? They should get as good (and more) as they give!
    there is no what if. they are in there because they are getting as good or more than they give - just o quote you.

    and before anyone keeps on going on - in 91 war - there were several of our femal soldiers taken prisoner are tortured and r aped by the iraqi army and jessica ?? last name....was raped during captivity.


    come on guys - your biased opionions are really making you look silly.

    I personally think everyone who commits a crime should get a fair trial and be punished according to the established rule of law. you think somehow us people should be heinously prosecuted - are guilty until proven innocent and should be executed for the smallest of crimes that you can jump up and yell "ahah - see I knew you were doing something wrong".

    lol

    you guys are funny.,
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  31. #31
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    Re: Re: careful

    Originally posted by iThink
    You are seeing muqtada al-sadr in these pictures? I believe no.

    Even if Al-sadr is responsible for the killings of hundreds, he too should be treated as he should be according to Iraqi laws or American laws or international laws, whatever is applicable. I believe written laws in USA don't allow mistreatment of prisoners, or do they.
    "these pictures" - lol what do these have to do with him? he has plenty of his own pics and video and quotes. he is already incriminated and condemed by the world and his own leaders and religious leaders.

    yes I agree with as I ahve stated in previous posts in this thread - everyone needs to get the same treatment and fairness as to the law. its the other posters in this thread who want to be unfair because they are simply biased against americans no matter if they are right or wrong. they are experinecing irrational exuberance right now - almost revelling in the fact that they caught some soldiers in wrong doings.

    yes - they did wrong and they should be punished - just like anyone else over there that did wrong - however - hte other posters seem to think that the soldiers of us should somehow be treated worse.

    lol
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  32. #32
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    Originally posted by Web Rhino
    an army that doesn't care to rape it's own female GIs, dosn't care for anything....

    http://www.drsusanblock.com/editoria...DenverPost.htm

    this even gets me more angry than the pics, i just read it yesterday.

    what about an army or peoples that kill their own people with complete disregard?? more heinous than what you quoted.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...8849BB008D.htm

    from an arab realted news media - so no western bias here.
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  33. #33
    A thread like this was already brought up twice, lets leave this crap alone.

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by dk2
    A thread like this was already brought up twice, lets leave this crap alone.
    awww man...then I might have to get some work done. thats no fun.
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  35. #35
    Originally posted by sailor
    what about an army or peoples that kill their own people with complete disregard?? more heinous than what you quoted.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...8849BB008D.htm

    from an arab realted news media - so no western bias here.
    i didn't look at your link, and i don't care to look....what's your point here?!
    i'm not wasting 1 min on that, we are talking about the US of A army here, no need to compare what others do.

    If you can't see that they were wrong, and you think that we are funny ppl that know nothing , then move on and you don't have to reply this thread.
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  36. #36
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    Originally posted by Web Rhino
    i didn't look at your link, and i don't care to look....what's your point here?!
    i'm not wasting 1 min on that, we are talking about the US of A army here, no need to compare what others do.

    If you can't see that they were wrong, and you think that we are funny ppl that know nothing , then move on and you don't have to reply this thread.
    thats what I thought. you dont care to see all the information - you are happy to run about bashing on anything you can see with only limited facts. it shows. you are the one who needs to move on and not reply to the thread any more.

    if you read my other posts here - you will see that I do think what they did was wrong. you just have not taken the time to look at the information - instead opting to let your personal feelings cloud your objectiviety.
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  37. #37
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    wrong dude

    Originally posted by The Dude_
    Bush is an idiot,he wont apologize for this!!!!!!

    He's playing chicken,he is hiding while others fight his battles

    The Dude
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

    of course he did - he is a stand up kind of guy - unlike many others out there.
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  38. #38
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    Yup, Bush is such a stand up kind of guy that he said:

    "Because we acted, torture rooms are closed, rape rooms no longer exist,"


    http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/12...e_cells+.shtml

    Truer words were never spoken.

  39. #39
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    I agree with The Dude.. Just because some Americans did this doesn't mean all Americans would do things like this.

  40. #40
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    Originally posted by saminuske
    I agree with The Dude.. Just because some Americans did this doesn't mean all Americans would do things like this.
    Of course not. And that's the message that must be sent by acting quickly to discipline the people involved.

    And I don't think that means just the people in the photos. Whether it's true or not that they were doing what they were told by intelligence agency representatives, or whether they weren't explicitly told that but it was implied by the atmosphere created or impressions given by interrogators, it's clear that some people would have known what was going on who objected to it. But it's also clear that either they felt there was no one in authority they could go to, or they did do so and were ignored.

    If they were "following orders," that's a consideration. But following orders has never been an excuse for breeching military regulations or international law. A properly managed chain of command should ensure that something like that doesn't happen. Clearly in this case there were serious problems in the command structure.
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