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  1. #1

    Grabbing google by the horns.

    I've been doing some research on search engines, and how they work. I've learned a couple new facts that I've never known before. However, I'm still trying to find out where to begin.
    My goal is to get my website within the top ten in a google search. Of course, why not. That's everyone's goal. I'm aware that it might cost a little bit, or it might not. That's not what's what I'm worried about right now. I'm just curious on where to begin!
    I've played around with keywords. It seems to work sometimes. I''ve just begun to learn about Meta Tabs. But it seems like there's a whole lot more involved than a few keywords. I've heard about formulas, and PEO's as well, but I feel like I'm only seeing a pixel of the whole picture.
    Would anybody be kind to throw out some usefull information about search engines. I'm looking to find a guide to show me where to begin, and how I can learn more. All help is greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Brad

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    Last edited by anon-e-mouse; 05-06-2004 at 12:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Take a look at http://www.seo-guy.com/tutorial.html

    Nice name btw
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  3. #3
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    Besides all the tricks there are just a few basic ingredients you need to have:

    - Many links to your site, BUT no linkfarm.
    - Content (A LOT) related to your domainname or mainsubject.
    - Updates on a regular basis.
    - A nice domainname and a few tiny tricks
    - a lot of patience, it takes months or even years to reach to top.
    - never ever spam in anyway!

  4. #4
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    Re: Grabbing google by the horns.

    Originally posted by Qwert
    I've been doing some research on search engines, and how they work
    [...]
    I''ve just begun to learn about Meta Tabs.
    Hopefully what you've begun to learn includes that Google doesn't use the contents of the meta keywords or description in their ranking algorithms. So there's one tip -- put your energies and attention elsewhere, don't put much thought into meta tags.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  5. #5

    read a lot

    Read a lot of forums like this dealing with SEO. Don't rush thing. Test things. There is no quick number one position. Unless, you are willing to PPC.

  6. #6
    Search Google for "Planet Ocean Search Engine News". They have the best complete guide for beginners (and not only for beginners).

    What makes them best is that they test,test,test & update their information every single month.

  7. #7
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    You might also want to spend some time reading stuff at http://highrankings.com/forums

    Good luck!

  8. #8
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    Google bombing!

    get loads of friends to add a link to your site! it only takes about 30 or so people and it works a treat!

    search on google and type "misrable failure" and look who got bombed! the first result is.....

    its fun, and free, and works! i wonder if enough people can do it, someone can beat microsoft when microsoft is typed in the search!

  9. #9
    Originally posted by wilhil
    Google bombing!

    get loads of friends to add a link to your site! it only takes about 30 or so people and it works a treat!


    This is a nonsense recommendation. You want links only from sites that are themed similar to yours.

    Even if all your friends have similar sites to you (I doubt it ) then 'bombing' means that all these links carry exactly the same wording. You don't want this. You want to vary the the text of incoming urls or Google will get you.

  10. #10
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    It seriously works, me and my friends in total own approx 60 domain names in total.

    each of us at the very footer of the page have a hyperlinged word or single letter that is the same color as the background so no one will see it, and it links to a page full of keywords.

    we all do it, and it works very well, all our pages are frequently visited by google, and so far it has worked on everything, we are each top of the google page rank for the words we wanted.

  11. #11
    i'd do a search on the forums for "seo" or "search engine optimization." there are probably a lot of threads devoted to this topic.
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by wilhil
    It seriously works, me and my friends in total own approx 60 domain names in total.

    each of us at the very footer of the page have a hyperlinged word or single letter that is the same color as the background so no one will see it, and it links to a page full of keywords.

    we all do it, and it works very well, all our pages are frequently visited by google, and so far it has worked on everything, we are each top of the google page rank for the words we wanted.
    "Google bombing" will work with worthless phrases like "miserable failure" but not with terms that actually will bring valuable visitors to business sites. In fact you'll find in those cases that placing a bunch of links with identical anchor text is probably the worst thing you can do -- or at least a close second to using "hidden text" set the same color as your background.

    Google bombing is a blogger's trick; a toy. It's not a valuable SEO technique for use with Google today, for most sites in competitive areas of business.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  13. #13
    Thank you all for your comments thus far.

    I had a question:

    Originally posted by JayC
    Hopefully what you've begun to learn includes that Google doesn't use the contents of the meta keywords or description in their ranking algorithms. So there's one tip -- put your energies and attention elsewhere, don't put much thought into meta tags.
    If Google doesn't use meta tags, and is the #1 search engine, then why do most tutorials, and sources focus on meta tags?
    Then what does google look for in a site? Is it popularity?

    Google bombing sounds interesting, but I don't think it would work.

    I looked over all of those links that were provided and I learned a great deal about SEO. Thank you all very much for your input. It has greatly helped me out.
    Brad

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Qwert
    If Google doesn't use meta tags, and is the #1 search engine, then why do most tutorials, and sources focus on meta tags?
    Those that are up to date and from credible sources do not.
    Then what does google look for in a site?
    In short, the presence of search terms and related words in on-page elements (heading tags, titles, link anchors, emphasized text, etc., as well as body text), links pointing at a page and some of the elements of those linking pages, and other less direct factors such as PageRank and linking relationships (which among other things are used in calculating the site's authority/hub relationship and those two individual scores).
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  15. #15
    Well that makes a little sense doesn't it!
    Thank you very much

  16. #16
    The 2 items that carry the most weight are the domain name and title.

    About meta tags not being relevant any longer... Keep in mind that the majority of sites on the net were published years ago. And most are published and never updated.

    Good Luck,
    Joe

  17. #17
    Do spiders respond to layers on a page? Or should I stick with tables?
    What are the pros and cons of each, refering to SE Spiders.

  18. #18
    Search engines still use descriptions, but dont use them towards search query's. Keywords are not used at all and have not been used for over 3 years due to the simple fact that everyone was throwing in keywords that had nothing to do with their site.

    If you're going for the top ranks in google, be aware that they are now "moving results" around every now and again so that no single website stays at the top for too long. This is their way of "helping out the little guy".

    ~Marque

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Marque
    If you're going for the top ranks in google, be aware that they are now "moving results" around every now and again so that no single website stays at the top for too long. This is their way of "helping out the little guy".
    That's one I haven't heard before. It's true that Google has been, and people working there have confirmed this, reworking their ranking algorithms every few weeks... slightly. I haven't heard it said before that the goal is to "help the little guy," though; it's more likely just experimenting with different things trying to find the "best" results.

    After all, how would that help the little guy? It'd be more likely to shift the top spots among various "big guys" -- dofferent well-optimized and heavily linked sites will be at the top, but the same basic things have been working for several months since the big shakeup that was dubbed the "Florida update" fell by the wayside.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  20. #20
    Google is always talking about "the little guy". Just check out some of their latest interviews in some of the major magazines around the world on the topic of releasing stock.

    They specifically use the term "for the little guy" for the main reason of making things more fair for people to get ahold of their stock. The same principle applies to their search engine and why it is switched around.

    ~Marque
    ~Marque

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Marque
    They specifically use the term "for the little guy" for the main reason of making things more fair for people to get ahold of their stock. The same principle applies to their search engine and why it is switched around.
    Sorry, I don't see that principle applied to their search results at all. It also runs counter to their statements about using the "democratic nature of the web" in ranking: PageRank inherently favors the big players; they naturally have more incoming links. Try any search term in which a Microsoft, Adobe, Dell, or Amazon are competing and see how well the "little guy" does.

    The most common criticism of Google's search results over the past several months, in fact, has been that they favor large, established sites (many result pages, for example, have been dominated by listings from Amazon, large portals like business.com, etc.) over the "little guys." While I do feel that they've backed off on that recently, I don't see frequent algorithm or ranking changes as necessarily beneficial to the little guy.

    To be clear, I don't feel that it's the other way around either; I don't think they're specifically trying to favor the big players in the organic results, at least not as part of any agenda. I think they're doing just as they've said they're doing -- making algorithmic adjustments to find the right balance, returning relevant results and minimizing the possibility of manipulation in the most competitive commercial results. And it makes sense that in those areas where the big players I mentioned above are dominant, most searchers do want to find pages from those firms near the top.

    Which may bring up the most important point: search engines aren't trying to help webmasters or publishers, big or small. The purpose of search engine results is to serve relevant results -- the audience that needs to be kept happy is that composed of the users, not that made up of site operators.

    Anyway, how does shuffling the results every few weeks help the "little guy?" If they put a little guy at the top this week and they change things next week, aren't they hurting a little guy?
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  22. #22
    Originally posted by JayC
    Those that are up to date and from credible sources do not. In short, the presence of search terms and related words in on-page elements (heading tags, titles, link anchors, emphasized text, etc., as well as body text), links pointing at a page and some of the elements of those linking pages, and other less direct factors such as PageRank and linking relationships (which among other things are used in calculating the site's authority/hub relationship and those two individual scores).
    There is only such amount of in page optimisation you can do. thus for difficult terms you need optimised anchor text (links with the keyword), the more the better.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by webdesign jr
    There is only such amount of in page optimisation you can do. thus for difficult terms you need optimised anchor text (links with the keyword), the more the better.
    Yep... which is why in the post you quoted I mentioned off-page elements including links as well.

    I wouldn't necessarily agree, though, that optimizing backlink anchor text simply with a "the more the better" philosophy is the right approach these days. That's not so effective since the "Florida update" and has become, and will continue to become, much more complicated with the inclusion of factors like LSI and Hilltop in ranking algorithms.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  24. #24
    Sorry. I did notice that you mention the anchor text. I just wanted to stress out that for the more difficult terms this is clearly the most important element.
    As for the Florida update - IBLs and anchor text seems to work even better after the update, at least for me. Bu I agree that forward thinking SEO should be aimed on getting links from relevant pages and hubs, whenewer possible.

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