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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
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    Chicago
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    And even if a potential client did stumble accross those 2 sites (chances are probably 1 in the thousands), I doubt it would make much difference in their buying decision. Joe Public really couldn't care less.
    I disagree a lot! Joe Public does care, a good quality design is a
    sign of stability, a sign of investment into the business. You would
    never buy a Chevy that was designed to look exactly like a BMW, would
    you? I wouldn't buy a service or product from an online company that
    did not at least, to some extent, invest into their appearance. Looks
    ARE everything. Why do you think companies spend thousands on
    custom designs? Why is Ceonex still in business?
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.
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  2. #27
    Designs have very little to do with the success of your business unless your site is your sole point of sales. Even then it's still questionable. HttpMe is living proof of that. That is a successful business model and their web site is a forum, a forum without an expensive skin I might add..

    To put a different perspective on this topic, I would say that 40% of our clients have never even seen our web site. They pay by check or Credit Card taken over the telephone, and for support they use the phone or we visit their offices. Sales efforts these clients responded to were not generated online so there was no need for them to ever see our site.

    For us spending money on an expensive design would be like buying a Mercedes and parking it in the garage never to drive it.

    Just because something works for one company does not mean (by any stretch of the imagination) it will work for everyone. Also, to make a statement that "this is the only way it will work" is a terribly naive statement to make in most cases IMO...
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  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    Australia
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    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    . . . HttpMe is living proof of that. That is a successful business model and their web site is a forum, a forum without an expensive skin I might add..
    No skin at all, just the default view.
    WLVPN.com NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider
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  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    27
    I also believe Templates are very much a good idea for businesses starting out. I've used them, however I do make major changes to them before putting them into service.

    My organization builds such templates and offers them with a customization service. We don't bring in loads of profit from this service, but we get around 3-5 orders per week, mostly Hosting Companies.

    Personally, I myself would probably never got into web design without these template sites. Using generic templates to learn how to build these sites started one of my main hobbies and part-time jobs.

    In contrast, I do believe a unique design is benificial to a company, however in the world of webhosting there are just so many different companies out there I'm positive you can compare two or more sites and find many similarities within their sites.

    In my opinion, a WebHosting company needs a "Professional Look" whether its a template or original design, but more importantly it needs to be able to prove its services and support to potential customers.
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  5. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Hey, I'm using templates for the first kick

    If I'm making a decent income, why should I stick with the non-unique site? Using template is just a process
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  6. #31
    Originally posted by Elm
    Yeah, to bad people don't put energy into making their own designs..
    ...or their grammar.
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Motorcity
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    150

    Custom templates

    Even if a designer used a template, dosent mean anything other than maybe they have no time. They could be offering services like templatetuning.com or something where you pick a template and they customize it for u, When they want to pay under $100 theres no alternative. I for one prefer that so I atleast have an idea of what there going for. Going from scratch and putting all that time into it and them not liking it, and wanting a ton of changes meaning another clean start isnt what I want to do with my time, esp for under a $100. Speaking for myself would be happy to do a template/site from scratch if they new what they wanted, most cant even tell you want font they want let alone no the difference btw a table and a cell. Most offer low price customizing of any template and if they want a template from scratch its just gonna cost more. I have 1000's of template as Im sure alot of you do. whats the matter with taking slices from a few of them and redoing them, changing colors txt and layers ? I may want server pics from one template and a header from another, colors changed here and there. Would like to know others opinions
    Originally posted by dgm
    Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that both of those sites are offering "web design services"?
      0 Not allowed!

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    CANADA
    Posts
    88
    Here's another example, these two sites look exactly the same..

    http://www.adaptivehost.com/

    and

    http://www.elancehosting.com/

    just came across their links on WHT..
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  9. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,301
    Maybe people should look more clearly under the TM templates how many times it has been downloaded. 98% of them already are but still they risk having the same template. I wonder why?
    "Web Hosting is not just about selling space, it is about facilitating customers needs with your plans and supporting the customer for a long lasting mutually beneficial relationship."- Yaser
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  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    8

    Joe Public

    I don't think Joe Public is going to know it's a template unless he is the 1 in 1000 that find two sites the same...

    Originally posted by midphase-Dan
    I disagree a lot! Joe Public does care, a good quality design is a
    sign of stability, a sign of investment into the business. You would
    never buy a Chevy that was designed to look exactly like a BMW, would
    you? I wouldn't buy a service or product from an online company that
    did not at least, to some extent, invest into their appearance. Looks
    ARE everything. Why do you think companies spend thousands on
    custom designs? Why is Ceonex still in business?
      0 Not allowed!

  11. #36

    Re: Joe Public

    Originally posted by mthosting
    I don't think Joe Public is going to know it's a template unless he is the 1 in 1000 that find two sites the same...
    I agree.

    Most of the people are design elitists.

    Since sites that use templates aren't big companies, the chances of a person encountering sites with the same template are very small.

    The highest risk is on WHT, which is not a big deal at all. I bet less than 1% of web hosting customers actually do some research. Ipowerweb, a web host with a dubious reputation here, is bigger than most of the non dedicated WHT members combined (including Lunarpages, hostnexus, etc.)

    And I know all of us are sick with TM templates and can smell them a mile away. But the vast majority of the internet population doesn't care. TM templates actually look better than most of the custom designs I've seen here. I know you want to puke when you see a website that resembles a video game. But like I said, most of you are design elitists.

    HTTPme had a horrible design. It was unprofessional looking and non-intuitive. It would have fallen on its face if it didn't have Aussie Bob or its stellar reputation here at WHT.

    If the prices and reputation were the same, a regular customer would go with http://www.adaptivehost.com/ anyday.
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  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,135
    Originally posted by |<@os
    Here's another example, these two sites look exactly the same..

    http://www.adaptivehost.com/

    and

    http://www.elancehosting.com/

    just came across their links on WHT..
    This is the same templatemonster template that used to be on
    ThrillHost as well =x
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.
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  13. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,301
    Most of the TM templates have a high loading time dont they? Ive heard that if a site takes more than 10 seconds to download then the user looses intrest in the landing page. Most of TM templates have a presentation in their flash header which takes lots of loading time
    "Web Hosting is not just about selling space, it is about facilitating customers needs with your plans and supporting the customer for a long lasting mutually beneficial relationship."- Yaser
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  14. #39
    Haha I was featured as one of the "evil templators"! I love it. When I made the choice to start a web hosting company in early 2003, I had very limited resources, yet needed a professional look. I saw this template in early May, and had to have it! At that time only 2 others had it. You might say I was the third to get it. I had no idea there would be a ton of web hosts out there who had it.

    Anyways, I customized it quite a bit from the actual template. For example take a look at the webhosting page which is totally different. We are are going to re-do it the entire site. At the moment we are currently re-designing it ala templatetuning.com. When we are done with that it should be different. None of our clients care, they love the site! The only people who have a problem with it are other web hosts, which don't pay me a dime, so I don't care! lol
    Last edited by MaxHosting; 05-03-2004 at 03:15 AM.
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  15. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    380
    Decisions, decisions....

    Do I use Frontpage to design a hosting site??

    Or do I use a template for my hosting site??

    Which will I get slammed more for?? Frontpage?? Template??

    That is what I based my decision on. I did not have Dreamweaver at the time, so, I went template. Although a new hosting site is being done in Frontpage totally. Keeps with the "theme" of the hosting service name.
    Glen Millar
    Tyger Hosting Services
    http://www.tygerhosting.com
    Affordable Direct Admin Linux Hosting Since 2003
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  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
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    Re: Re: Joe Public

    Originally posted by Intersabre
    . . . HTTPme had a horrible design. It was unprofessional looking and non-intuitive . . .
    Complete and utter nonsense. The HTTPme site is not "unprofessional or non-intuitive". I find that extremely offensive and extraordinarily ignorant of the real purpose of such an advanced interactional platform, in a market of "me too" suppliers, with their "me too" sites.

    If you don't understand or comprehend the .COMmunity platform (and you don't), and how it interacts on multiple levels, and draws in the site visitor, then you simply don't understand. Don't knock what you do not comprehend.
    Originally posted by Intersabre
    . . . It would have fallen on its face if it didn't have Aussie Bob or its stellar reputation here at WHT.
    Wrong again. It stands on its own and it stands apart from the noisy crowd of "me too" hosts. Having a good reputation on WHT is great, and that's something I worked damn hard to achieve and maintain. Most HTTPme business came through word of mouth, with our clients telling their friends, and they were inturn drawn into the .COMmunity. I can guarantee you this, folks won't spend 6 hours+ reading your site, like they do with HTTPme's site. Extremely powerful sales tool there indeed.
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  17. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,301
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Intersabre
    . . . It would have fallen on its face if it didn't have Aussie Bob or its stellar reputation here at WHT.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Aussie Bob is not a superhero that he saved HTTPme without doing anything, he probably spent lots of time and hardwork building the reputation, he's almost 10K posts which is a very good contribution to WHT.

    Maybe he can tell us any of his secrets hehe
    "Web Hosting is not just about selling space, it is about facilitating customers needs with your plans and supporting the customer for a long lasting mutually beneficial relationship."- Yaser
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  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    676
    My opinion about templates is obvious. Templates work. However it is not a good solution for those who want and mean business.

    I don't know if that's because I am a designer myself but, I can easily identify a web site template and already caught so many hosts using it, even though they always neglect to say it

    Why don't you just say to your customers "I used a template"?
    The funny thing for me is that everyone using a template tries to pass a wealthy image to the customers.... wealthy with a template?

    I definately prefer having a www.adjkhost.com then having a templatemonster.com!

    But hey, I respect those who use templates, after all not all of us can have design skills or money to hire a good designer.

    - AF
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  19. #44

    Re: Re: Re: Joe Public

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    I find that extremely offensive
    I apologize if you were offended. Looking back, I should have worded that better.

    I still stand by my convicitions though. There's a reason why no other business site looks like yours. The majority of the internet population would have difficulty using a forum. Plus it's unprofessional - it looks more like a web community than a business. You could have had a normal website and a forum featured prominently.

    Your customers are resellers, which are much more sophisticated than the general internet population.

    I'm taking it from a purely design perspective though. Ask any professional web designer with a degree. It worked for you because of special circumstances.
      0 Not allowed!

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    676
    Members: 1,797, Threads: 16,423, Posts: 113,427
    There are currently 11 members and 6 guests on the boards. | Most users ever online was 143 on 05-28-03 at 03:52 PM.

    HTTPme.com seems to work. So keep it up.

    - AF
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  21. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Joe Public

    Originally posted by Intersabre
    I apologize if you were offended. Looking back, I should have worded that better.

    Thank you.
    I still stand by my convicitions though. There's a reason why no other business site looks like yours.

    Thank you. I am very partial to flattery.

    Others are running with that platform now. HTTPme was probably the first hosting company to embrace that type of platform. It's a brave path if others want to follow. I see this platform being adopted more and more in the future, as we shake ourselves from the shackles and bondage on what people think a "website" constitutes.
    The majority of the internet population would have difficulty using a forum.

    Good thing we're not trying to connect with the "majority of the internet population". However, communities connect to the very heart of most people. Business on the net is really about connecting with someone, and using that connection to interact and create a platform whereby products and services can be distributed.
    Plus it's unprofessional

    If you say so. The experience of our clients and from much other feedback received, is that is not the case. But each to his own.
    it looks more like a web community than a business.

    Bingo, gee imagine that. It comes accross with the desire to connect in a familiar community (human) manner, and thus removing heaps of barriers. It connects MUCH more than an average site, which pretty much just displays information, with no interactivity. Humans have a deep desire to connect. Communities facilitate that connection, and this transpires into the business world.
    You could have had a normal website and a forum featured prominently.

    Been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt. If I want a normal car, I'll buy a normal car. If I want something noone else has got, then I'll create that. You need to differenciate yourself from your competition, and HTTPme did that very well, with the .COMmunity platform.
    Your customers are resellers, which are much more sophisticated than the general internet population.

    Let's hope so. Gee, maybe we thought about that first?
    I'm taking it from a purely design perspective though. Ask any professional web designer with a degree.

    lol, if I wanted to build a standard website, I would have. HTTPme is a .COMmunity which faciliates human connection via an online platform, which inturn allows for the distribution of products and services. Most designers with a "degree" wouldn't know what the hell I'm talking about.
    It worked for you because of special circumstances.
    No, it worked because it meets a very deep human need, and that is to connect and interact, as we do offline, online. Most don't understand it, heck, I don't understand all the complex underlying reasonings as to why it works.

    Sometimes I do ponder on all the underlying psychology and variables that contribute to the entity, but I find myself satisfied and content with some mystery.
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  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by adjkhost
    My opinion about templates is obvious. Templates work. However it is not a good solution for those who want and mean business
    What an amazing statement to make. I wonder if you have heard of a little company called Pair.com? Before their fairly recent site change they had the same site design for a long time if I recall correctly. It was very plain, no flash, no graphically intense, designer oriented web site. Nothing but solid reliable service and great support.

    Look at them now, in my opinion Pair is just about the premier hosting company out there. They sport a stellar reputation, run a morally solid business and have the utmost respect from most (if not all) of the legitimate web hosts out there. All without some fancy overpriced web site. Imagine that.

    A great and expensive site design will not overcome a poor network, bad support or deceptive business practices. In and of itself a web site design is not what makes a company serious about their business, nor does it enhance their reputation for providing quality services. It is simply an online office that needs to be soundly functional and work without errors.
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  23. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    676
    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    ... A great and expensive site design will not overcome a poor network, bad support or deceptive business practices. In and of itself a web site design is not what makes a company serious about their business, nor does it enhance their reputation for providing quality services. It is simply an online office that needs to be soundly functional and work without errors.
    Almost that. A site is your online image, some do care about it, others don't.

    Pair.com had success with a template. Ok, I accept it. Here is an example of a web host that boosted sales with a new site:
    www.hostrocket.com

    Thanks for replying, btw. Good to know your opinion.

    - AF
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  24. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    London
    Posts
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Joe Public

    Originally posted by Intersabre
    I apologize if you were offended. Looking back, I should have worded that better.

    I still stand by my convicitions though. There's a reason why no other business site looks like yours. The majority of the internet population would have difficulty using a forum. Plus it's unprofessional - it looks more like a web community than a business. You could have had a normal website and a forum featured prominently.

    Your customers are resellers, which are much more sophisticated than the general internet population.

    I'm taking it from a purely design perspective though. Ask any professional web designer with a degree. It worked for you because of special circumstances.
    I think your problem is that you fail to understand it is a community, it is not designed to be anything other than this And a community works, many clients like the openness and honesty of the forum.

    You put your foot in your mouth with uneducated, ignorating comments such as

    there's a reason no other business websites look like yours
    - many others, after seeing the success of the HTTPme brand, are developing their own such ideas after being inpsired by what was done by HTTPme.

    Another comment I find utterly foolish is:

    HTTPme had a horrible design. It was unprofessional looking and non-intuitive. It would have fallen on its face if it didn't have Aussie Bob or its stellar reputation here at WHT.
    HTTPme succeeded until buyout because Bob understood the community and the way to run this. It's stellar reputation at WHT didn't suddenly just appear, it was built through 3 years of hard work.

    I also beg to ask, you consider the design of adaptivehost (not picking on these here), and the thousands of others with Pixelbrick-inspired designs intuitive? Incredible.
    Matthew Russell | Namecheap
    Twitter: @mattdrussell

    www.easywp.com - True Managed WordPress, made easy
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  25. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Originally posted by adjkhost
    Pair.com had success with a template. Ok, I accept it.
    Sorry, but no, our current and previous designs are all custom and nothing comes from existing templates.

    Speaking for pair,
    Kevin
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