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04-27-2004, 12:55 PM #26Web Hosting Master
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Formerly: Managing Director, Hostroute.com Ltd & Marketing Director, Ultraspeed UK Ltd
View my Professional Profile: www.gordonhudson.com
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04-27-2004, 01:09 PM #27WHT Addict
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If you want to invest in seo for the web hosting related keywords, you have to have the best people do it. We have an seo expert in house that does our seo. In 6 months, we were able to get top rankings with the keywords web hosting company, web site hosting, low cost web hosting, web hosting provider, and more. After another year, we hope to make top 10 with Web Hosting and Hosting.
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04-27-2004, 01:11 PM #28Web Hosting Master
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Yes, we have good ranking swith odd keywords but I think you will struggle to get good rankings on "web hosting" unless your domain has lots of inward links.
Formerly: Managing Director, Hostroute.com Ltd & Marketing Director, Ultraspeed UK Ltd
View my Professional Profile: www.gordonhudson.com
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04-27-2004, 01:48 PM #29Web Hosting Master
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SEO is well and good, but that's putting all your eggs into one basket IMHO. We saw what happened with the google update and there's a good possibility of it happening again.
That said, any good business person will tell you that your name needs to be seen about 7 times before a person will show interest. That number drastically increases when it comes to the Internet (since it's FLOODED with advertisements).
I'm looking at starting a campaign locally, using the local newspaper and billboard advertisements. The cost isn't overwhelming (for the main streets in my city I'm looking at around $600-$800 per month). With the placement I'm planning, everyone driving to work is going to see my advertisement twice a day, plus in the newspaper.
I haven't used Overture yet, but that was a great suggestion, as GordonH said, they actually target REAL consumers, whereas Google and SEO target more tech-heads. With $2000 you should really look at local advertising. Although more expensive, the advertising I've done locally has seen almost a 40% sale turnover. Keeping in mind, this is a small city (pop 40,000) and my competition charges 5 times what I do (and I'M expensive compared to most of the companies here).
So if you are living in Boston or New York, you could probably raise those rates 10x over (or more) and your turnover will be smaller, but even so I can almost guarantee turnover is better locally then online.
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04-27-2004, 02:18 PM #30Junior Guru Wannabe
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Radio Ads
I ran the ads in Philadelphia, PA where I am located and the stations were Power99 (fm) and WDAS (am). You should consider running the ads in your local area though.
Anyway, even though it was alot of up-front cost like I said I more than doubled my money. In fact, I stopped running the ads because I was getting too much business and wasn't prepared to handle it.
One thing that was strange though is that if poeple were dissatisfied with cusotmer service, they would call the radio station and complain. Go fig.
Originally posted by Yaser
c3r3br0,
Do those radio stations have an online site? if so can you pls provide it to me and which area or state are they form, thanks.
Yaser
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04-27-2004, 02:23 PM #31Web Hosting Master
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Re: Radio Ads
Originally posted by c3r3br0
I ran the ads in Philadelphia, PA where I am located and the stations were Power99 (fm) and WDAS (am). You should consider running the ads in your local area though.
Anyway, even though it was alot of up-front cost like I said I more than doubled my money. In fact, I stopped running the ads because I was getting too much business and wasn't prepared to handle it.
One thing that was strange though is that if poeple were dissatisfied with cusotmer service, they would call the radio station and complain. Go fig.
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04-27-2004, 03:11 PM #32WHT Addict
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Google is more for tech heads? I disagree. Search engine traffic is search engine traffic. The reason why many people pay for sponsored listings is for quick visibility. People sometimes are upset about seo because it takes time before results are see. Typically 4 to 6 months. Having high rankings on search engines such as yahoo and google are like being in the yellow pages or having a billboard. When people are looking for what you have to offer, your web site will be one of the first they see. With SEO, there is no guarantee, but you have better odds if you go with a great seo firm. Web Hosting related keywords on overture command around $3-$5 per click for good visibility. Plus many people overlook sponsored links. I don't see how paying $3-$5 per click for sponsored links is better than getting free targetted traffic from search engines thanks to SEO.
About the google's Florida updated: it affected a lot of sites including our own but we're back on top.
The reason why I'm religiously talking about SEO is because the long term benefits greatly out weigh the initial cost. Our own site still continues to go through seo. It's about improving visibility which is great for brand awareness. When advertising dollars run out, your seo investment is still working for you because you're still receiving relevant traffic to your site, and the sales are still coming in. The difference between other methods of advertising and seo is that seo provides an opportunity for residual visibility, traffic, and sales!Last edited by jnm007a; 04-27-2004 at 03:15 PM.
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04-27-2004, 03:18 PM #33Web Hosting Guru
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The trick with SEO is to optimize for a wide range of words/phrases, so if you drop in the search results for some of them, overall you still will be OK.
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04-27-2004, 03:22 PM #34Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by jnm007a
Google is more for tech heads? I disagree. Search engine traffic is search engine traffic. The reason why many people pay for sponsored listings is for quick visibility. People sometimes are upset about seo because it takes time before results are see. Typically 4 to 6 months. Having high rankings on search engines such as yahoo and google are like being in the yellow pages or having a billboard. When people are looking for what you have to offer, your web site will be one of the first they see. With SEO, there is no guarantee, but you have better odds if you go with a great seo firm. Web Hosting related keywords on overture command around $3-$5 per click for good visibility. Plus many people overlook sponsored links. I don't see how paying $3-$5 per click for sponsored links is better than getting free targetted traffic from search engines thanks to SEO.
About the google's Florida updated: it affected a lot of sites including our own but we're back on top.
The reason why I'm religiously talking about SEO is because the long term benefits greatly out weigh the initial cost. Our own site still continues to go through seo. It's about improving visibility which is great for brand awareness. When advertising dollars run out, your seo investment is still working for you because you're still receiving relevant traffic to your site, and the sales are still coming in. The difference between other methods of advertising and seo is that seo provides an opportunity for residual visibility, traffic, and sales!
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04-27-2004, 03:48 PM #35Web Hosting Master
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What I was saying is that the search engines that Overture place their listings in (MSN, AOL, LYCOS) are more consumer orientated so the sort of person who signs up from those ads tends to be a consumer with less web hosting experience.
Thats my experience anyway over the past 4 years ...Formerly: Managing Director, Hostroute.com Ltd & Marketing Director, Ultraspeed UK Ltd
View my Professional Profile: www.gordonhudson.com
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04-27-2004, 04:20 PM #36Junior Guru Wannabe
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Home Office
Originally posted by JustinH
I'm assuming you actually have an actual office in the area then? My office is attached to the house so I haven't jumped on that bandwagon yet... I'm not sure my wife would like an influx of people at our house, which is why the billboard is still on hold.
It isn't that big of a deal when you can show them your portfolio of clients and the support you can provide. I have found that my current clients are the biggest selling tool. The toghest thing with hosting is that poeple are just sending their money to someone and never meeting or talking withthem unless there is a problem. I try to send out birthday cards or holidays card to let them know that they are valued and I'm vested in seeing their site succeed. After all no site no business for me.
Anyway, I used to rent office space per meeting at a local incubator. Now I just meet at a local coffee house that I've been going to for years and rent out the middle room or meet at their place of business.
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04-27-2004, 04:55 PM #37Web Hosting Master
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Search engine optimization is definitely the most cost effective option in my opinion. But choosing a niche is very important. Better to be on the first page for a small not so common term then on the thousandth page where no one will ever see you. Paying for links in various directories, whilst driving traffic to your site, has the more important benefit of increasing your search engine ranking.
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04-27-2004, 05:24 PM #38Web Hosting Guru
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The problem with relying on SEO is that it can become useless when the big engines change their formulas.
jnm007a, please do not take this offensively, but I did a quick backlink check on google. Your site is using some shady practices. I see some FFA link pages. Your most important links comes from a Lord of the Rings site, which is completely unrelated to web hosting. Your optimizer just put them up there to farm PR. Google has expressed many times that sites should not put up links just for PR.
PR manipulation is a very common practice. But once Google figures out how to clamp down on this practice, your site will probably drop into irrelevant rankings (less than 50).
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04-27-2004, 06:17 PM #39WHT Addict
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Most of our links come from web development related sites. When you trade links with different web sites, they typically have a links page. I don't think that's unethical. As far as FFA links, I didn't see any. Part of SEO involves building link popularity by trading links with different relevant web sites. We recently bumped up to a 6/10PR from 5/10PR because of the many backlinks we currently have. I don't think one site contributed greatly towards it. SEO is about improving your web site's content. PR is not everything. SEO is not a natural process that just happens. It takes skill in understanding how search engines work to benefit from it. There are some people that think all seo is bad. Maybe they just don't understand it.
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04-27-2004, 07:08 PM #40Web Hosting Master
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Re: Home Office
Originally posted by c3r3br0
Actually, my office is at the house. A few years ago, people would shy away from people who worked out of their homes, but it is more accepted now. In fact, I have had more than one client say to me that they are glad I don't try to hide that I work out of my home with the usual tricks (suite 101) and just tell them I work out of my home.
Thanks for the info!
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04-27-2004, 09:03 PM #41Web Hosting Guru
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SEO was originally editing text and meta, title and <h1> tags.
Google works by counting incoming links as "votes". The site with the most votes is ranked the highest. Incoming links are supposed to be set up naturally. By soliciting links just for PR, you're cheating the system.
Here is one FFA page I've found that is linking to you:
http://vancouver-webpages.com/van/cool-list.shtml
I added "ASDF" just now.
This is how most SEO is - shady practices that find loopholes in the methods engines use to rank sites. Search engines are scrambling to close the gaps. Google is well aware of PR manipulation.
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04-27-2004, 09:41 PM #42Junior Guru Wannabe
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Re: Re: Home Office
Originally posted by JustinH
I've been debating this for some time now. I'll have to try it out for a while and see if things work around here, but I'd imagine it is becoming more of an "accepted" practice.
Thanks for the info!
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04-27-2004, 10:50 PM #43Web Hosting Master
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Re: Re: Re: Home Office
Originally posted by c3r3br0
Just remember to sell yourself. That's one thing that no other hosting company will be able to compete with. For instance, my biggest account came during lunch time where a couple of guys were talking about their new business. I heard them talking about the web and walked over introduced myself and handed them a card. At that moment I just listened to their ideas and got excited about what they wanted to do and offered some suggestions. I left before them, but before leaving I paid for their meal without them knowing. To date it has been the biggest account. Even if someone offered the same hosting for free they wouldn't leave.
I do appreciate the tips .
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04-27-2004, 11:30 PM #44Junior Guru
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The type of customers I am after are the ones that you have many of, but charge less per customer so each needs less overhead.
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04-28-2004, 10:14 AM #45Web Hosting Master
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Can anyone recommed a good SEO firm? Someone with an experience of a particluar SE firm would be great.
thanks, Yaser.
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04-28-2004, 11:21 AM #46Web Hosting Guru
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Originally posted by Yaser
Can anyone recommed a good SEO firm? Someone with an experience of a particluar SE firm would be great.
thanks, Yaser.
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04-28-2004, 11:44 AM #47Web Hosting Master
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Anyone experienced www.bruceclay.com i see the ad almost everytime i visit www.searchenginewatch.com he is a pro SE optimizer, so wanted to ask if anyone has used his services previously.
Thanks, Yaser.
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04-28-2004, 01:14 PM #48WHT Addict
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Bruce Clay is a very reputable seo company. With any seo company, it's a good idea to ask for examples of sites optimized in a similar field.
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04-28-2004, 01:22 PM #49WHT Addict
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Hey Poncho2000,
SEO for web hosting related keywords is too competitive to do it yourself unless you're a professional. Running a web hosting business has other more important priorities. To be successful in business, it takes money to make money. The main problem is to find an seo company that's right for your business. Paying 1k per month for seo intially made me feel very nervous since we were just starting out with a very small budget, but over time it paid off and we hired the seo expert full time to provide seo for our clients as well.
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04-28-2004, 01:43 PM #50Web Hosting Guru
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Running a web hosting business has other more important priorities.
Good seo company will charge you a lot and don't forget that seo
is a recurring process and so are the seo fees.