Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    12,200

    * Republican Senator says US may need compulsory service to boost Iraq force

    WASHINGTON (AFP) Apr 20, 2004
    A senior Republican lawmaker said Tuesday that deteriorating security in Iraq may force the United States to reintroduce the military draft.
    "There's not an American ... that doesn't understand what we are engaged in today and what the prospects are for the future," Senator Chuck Hagel told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on post-occupation Iraq.

    "If that's the case, why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?" Hagel said, arguing that restoring compulsory military service would force "our citizens to understand the intensity and depth of challenges we face."

    The Nebraska Republican added that a draft, which was ended in the early 1970s, would spread the burden of mililitary service in Iraq more equitably among various social strata.

    "Those who are serving today and dying today are the middle class and lower middle class," he observed.

    The call to consider a imposing a draft comes just days after the Pentagon moved to extend the missions of some 20,000 US troops in Iraq.

    Some critics of the US-led occupation complain that military planners used too few troops to subdue Iraq, and insist that more military muscle will be needed to restore order.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    12,200
    Another interesting article:

    US 'soldiers of conscience' take Sixties route to Canada
    By Marcus Warren in New York
    (Filed: 19/04/2004)

    Two American soldiers opposed to the war in Iraq have abandoned their units and fled to Canada in a desertion evoking the exodus of young men north of the border during the Vietnam era.



    The two soldiers are seeking asylum as refugees, arguing that they face persecution for their beliefs - and in theory the death penalty - if they return.

    Their decision to run may not yet herald a mass migration but no one expects the pair to be the last to abandon their units and slip across the frontier, even at the cost of becoming deserters.

    "Just because you sign a contract, that doesn't mean you abdicate the right to be a moral human being," said Jeremy Hinzman, 25, a private at Fort Bragg in North Carolina, and the first of the two to reach Canada. "If you know that an order is unjust, it's your duty to disobey it."

    Speaking from his new home in Toronto, he shied away from urging other servicemen to copy his example, afraid, he said, of being "seditious". But he had this message for other soldiers with moral qualms about the war in Iraq.

    "They need to do what they think is right," he said. "If that means going to Canada, follow your conscience."

    Already he has been joined by a second fugitive, Brandon Hughey, 18, a private who abandoned his unit the night before its deployment from Fort Hood, Texas, to the Middle East and is now living with a Quaker couple in the Ontario city of St Catharines.

    "This is a war based solely on lies," Pte Hughey said. "If other soldiers feel that they cannot take part, they should talk to their superiors about it. But Canada is an option."

    They both call the war in Iraq a violation of international law, a crime that overrides their duty to the army they signed up for.

    Pte Hinzman had no qualms about serving in Afghanistan although he did ask his officers for a non-combat role.

    They now face a difficult battle in the courts to become the first Americans to be given refugee status in Canada, although the country's ban on deporting anyone at risk of suffering the death penalty may count in their favour.

    The war in Iraq has re-established Canada as a place of sanctuary for young Americans opposed to fighting in a conflict that they believe is wrong.

    The generation that provided most of the manpower for the United States military in the 1960s and '70s also saw tens of thousands of young men going across the border, the majority to avoid being called up into the armed forces.

    One of 60,000 Americans who fled to dodge the draft and service in Vietnam, Jeffry House, recalls turning up at the border in 1970 and simply announcing that he wanted to live in Canada. The Canadian guards asked whether he had a "military problem" and then ushered him to one side to start a new life.

    Now a Canadian citizen and a lawyer, he is overseeing Pte Hinzman's and Pte Hughey's attempts to become refugees.

    "They remind me of how I felt," he said. "The idea that the Pentagon would drop me into some village and I would end up killing people was horrible."

    Pte Hinzman said the "crystallising moment" for his decision to abandon the army was hearing a radio report while in Afghanistan about the sharing out of oil revenue in post-war Iraq.

    The two men may be a lonely vanguard of young people prepared to leave their comrades-in-arms, families and homeland for uncertainty in a foreign country.

    But with more US soldiers dying so far this month than at any time since the toppling of Saddam Hussein and military morale suffering as tours of duty are extended, reinforcements are likely to be soon on the way.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Goleta, CA
    Posts
    5,550
    Yes lets send poorly civilians onto the battlefield which will no doubt increase casualties even more so. Wonderful idea!
    Patron: I'd like my free lunch please.
    Cafe Manager: Free lunch? Did you read the fine print stating it was an April Fool's joke.
    Patron: I read the same way I listen, I ignore the parts I don't agree with. I'm suing you for false advertising.
    Cafe Owner: Is our lawyer still working pro bono?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,779
    It is called a test balloon by the Bush administration. Float the idea, see how big the fuss is and if it flops blame the stooge that said it and deny all knowledge.

    Funny my wife and I were discussing this last week wondering how long it would take Bush to try and return the draft.
    Last edited by The3bl; 04-21-2004 at 02:29 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7
    Facing Vietnam and the upcoming elections I cannot believe that they will actually do this. Above all because Bush has set a good example: While the US army was hiding from Vietcong Bush hid himself from the army ;-)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    3,262
    The Draft? pssshhh .. he better not!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,100
    I am sure that all people supporting war in Iraq just cannot wait for the draft, so they can trully show their support for the cause.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Hot, hot Michigan...
    Posts
    3,506
    Originally posted by Techark
    Funny my wife and I were discussing this last week wondering how long it would take Bush to try and return the draft.
    I was thinking, after the election, sure...

    But this far beforehand, even to 'float' the idea? Seems like political suicide to me.
    Ion Web Services/TronicTech
    http://www.ion-web.com or Unsupported webhosting?!?
    Shared hosting, Reseller accounts, Dedicated Servers, and More
    Proudly hosting since 2002

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    58
    Geeze, there's not going to be a draft.

  10. #10
    HE better not institute the draft, there will go all of the unmtered webhosts!!!! Well all of the unmetered and 3/4ths of the regular.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    3,419
    Originally posted by dk2
    HE better not institute the draft, there will go all of the unmtered webhosts!!!! Well all of the unmetered and 3/4ths of the regular.
    No, the unlimited hosts would be too young to be drafted.
    Ask about custom logo design! :: TalkSka.com - Your source for Ska News and Forums. Join today!
    AIM=IQPhat
    [email protected]
    EMAIL=Use the board's email system, please.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5,441
    Drafting doesn't even make sense. Forcing people to fight in a war they had no voice in is illogical. Also, a majority of the other countries are against the US's decision, and for good reason. Isolationism is probably better overall, than interfering with other countries and suffering the losses of many lives.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Goleta, CA
    Posts
    5,550
    All I can say is that if I get drafted I'm quite trigger happy.
    Patron: I'd like my free lunch please.
    Cafe Manager: Free lunch? Did you read the fine print stating it was an April Fool's joke.
    Patron: I read the same way I listen, I ignore the parts I don't agree with. I'm suing you for false advertising.
    Cafe Owner: Is our lawyer still working pro bono?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Hot, hot Michigan...
    Posts
    3,506
    Well, I've been reading a bit more about it...

    Heh, if the draft happens when the articles I've been reading states (early 05), I'll have escaped the draft by a few months, having just turned 26. If the draft laws change between now and then like some bills that are getting passed around are aiming for, I might still be drafted.

    Wheeee!



    But yes, the vast unlimited hosts probably have a few years to go before high school, much less worrying about drafts..

    In any event, I don't really support a draft for a war such as the one in iraq - even with me missing it because I'm too old. It just seems like we should be working on getting nato or the UN involved, rather than just tossing more bodies from the US over there.
    Ion Web Services/TronicTech
    http://www.ion-web.com or Unsupported webhosting?!?
    Shared hosting, Reseller accounts, Dedicated Servers, and More
    Proudly hosting since 2002

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    1,838
    !@#$$%^&*((*&^%$#%T^ is all i gots to say about a draft, im just so sick of this #$%^%$#@#@!$@#%@$#%#$%@#$ stuff
    Computer Steroids - Full service website development solutions since 2001.
    (612)234-2768 - Locally owned and operated in the Minneapolis, Minnesota area.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,779
    Originally posted by pixel_fenix
    All I can say is that if I get drafted I'm quite trigger happy.

    Shhhhh don't say that too loud you will be the first one they take.

    The Military needs men like you.

    Guys you don't know what you are missing!

    The fun of the draft lotto. I remember registering for the draft and getting my card then sitting in front of the TV and waiting to see how high a lotto number I had. Low number you went to Nam high number you had a party.

    Thank God I was born on a day and month that kept coming up high.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    407
    I disagree. What we have now is a 'professional military'. We have highly skilled military people because they are in the army for 20 some years. With a draft system people will only be in for 2-3 years and it will be people that do not want to be in it. This will give us a crappy army.

    I say keep it professional and if anything pay them more because they are risking their lives.
    Alvin

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Let's see.....
    Posts
    4,446
    I was talking to someone on a bus the other day who works at a recruiting office, he mentioned they are still getting a lot of sign-ups.

    As for the pay,I also say pay them more. Only use the draft as a very, very last resort.
    73's, Kim
    Everything happens for a reason I make up.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    407
    And if we did start a draft will this now include women since times are changing and we are now an equal opportunity country?
    Last edited by alvinks; 04-21-2004 at 07:04 PM.
    Alvin

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Hot, hot Michigan...
    Posts
    3,506
    Originally posted by alvinks
    And if we did start a draft will this now include women since times are changing and we are an equal opportunity country?
    I somehow don't think women will want to be *that* equal..
    Ion Web Services/TronicTech
    http://www.ion-web.com or Unsupported webhosting?!?
    Shared hosting, Reseller accounts, Dedicated Servers, and More
    Proudly hosting since 2002

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Goleta, CA
    Posts
    5,550
    yes funny how they want some things equal but not others although there are reasons why women shouldn't be on the front lines which have been debated to death.
    Patron: I'd like my free lunch please.
    Cafe Manager: Free lunch? Did you read the fine print stating it was an April Fool's joke.
    Patron: I read the same way I listen, I ignore the parts I don't agree with. I'm suing you for false advertising.
    Cafe Owner: Is our lawyer still working pro bono?

  22. #22
    make Bush go over there and fight .. Since he started it all.
    Money is the root of all evil. So if you don't want to go crazy, give it all to me

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sarasota
    Posts
    518
    Draft the SUV drivers first!

    /ducks

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5,441
    Originally posted by bodypainter
    Draft the SUV drivers first!

    /ducks
    I'll second you, and throw in people with Hummers.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    893
    Originally posted by Techark
    Guys you don't know what you are missing!

    The fun of the draft lotto.
    Originally posted by JWise
    make Bush go over there and fight .. Since he started it all.

  26. #26
    I wonder if the only child clause is still in effect?

    I would serve my country in a hearbeat though.

    Derrick
    ResellerEdge.com - High Quality Reseller/ Multiple Domain Hosting.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,779
    Originally posted by FTPguy
    Originally posted by Techark
    Guys you don't know what you are missing!

    The fun of the draft lotto.

    In case you are confused by my previous post. During the Vietnam war there were not enough volunteers, so Congress created a kind of death lottery: If your birth date was picked out of a hat, off to the army you went. Each birth date was pulled out and given a number from 1 to 365 and if your number was high above 200, you were not called, if it was a low number you got to go get shot at.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,508
    I think we should focus more time on situations here in the USA, then our military.
    Linux junkie | steward.io

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Goleta, CA
    Posts
    5,550
    Agreed we have way more work that needs to be done in the United States than Iraq. Cough ballooning national debt cough.
    Patron: I'd like my free lunch please.
    Cafe Manager: Free lunch? Did you read the fine print stating it was an April Fool's joke.
    Patron: I read the same way I listen, I ignore the parts I don't agree with. I'm suing you for false advertising.
    Cafe Owner: Is our lawyer still working pro bono?

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    220
    make Bush go over there and fight .. Since he started it all.

    Exactly, but Bush would dodge fighting a war just like he did when he was younger.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    33
    The Olsen Twin and I will have a three-some if Congress actually reinstates the draft.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    58
    I was just about to say that myself. There sure are a lot of bush haters here.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,729
    They're a very small, but extremely vocal minority. It's not worth bothering to argue with them. Unfortunately, their tactics of flooding the lounge with anti-Bush propaganda is allowed to continue here. Hopefully that won't be the case forever.

    I sure do love how this Democrat idea about the draft is spoken of by one Republican and then is blamed on Bush. Take a look at the rantings of one Charles Rangel in the recent past and you'll see where all this draft bunk comes from.
    Last edited by Andrew; 04-22-2004 at 09:16 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •