Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: the Draft Bill

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,029

    the Draft Bill

    This is great has anyone else hear about the Draft Bill?
    I am back....


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,029
    From: Sophie Lapaire <sophie.lapaire@sun.com>
    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/manda...g19mar04.shtml
    March 19, 2004

    I rarely send a mail to a large audience, but the possibility of mandatory drafting for boys and girls (age 18-26) starting June 15 2005, is something, I
    believe, everyone should know. This litteraly affects EVERYONE since we all have or know children that will have to go if this bill passes.

    If there are children in your family, READ this.

    There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately. Details and links follow.

    Even those voters who currently support us. Actions abroad may still object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference, but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a shelter and includes women in the draft
    --
    Also, crossing into canada has already been made very difficult.

    Actions, actions, actions:
    P please send this on to all the parents and teachers you know, and all the aunts and uncles, grandparents, godparents.... And let your children know -- it's their future, and theycan be a powerful voice for change!

    Please also write to your representatives to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills -- and write to newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story.

    The draft

    $28 million has been added to the 2004 selective service system (sss) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June

    15, 2005. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the sss annual performance plan - fiscal year 2004.

    The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5146.htm www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

    Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/nat...89/default.asp entitled
    the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States,
    including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

    Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era. College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada
    and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign
    affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other
    things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester.
    Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
    I am back....


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    825
    I read about this several months back. The signs were there that this was going to happen a long time before it was announced aswell (though to tell anyone about it would generally be met with disbelief and mockery - no doubt it'll sink in eventually when their children are called up).

    The most worrying part of that act is "and for other purposes.". I wonder what that could mean ? Surely the whole reason of the army is national defense, so I shudder to think what the 'other purposes' are.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,029
    Only way out of the draft is if you are married.
    I am back....


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    /roof/ledge
    Posts
    28,088
    Originally posted by Torith
    Only way out of the draft is if you are married.
    It never was before, maybe it's different this time around?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,029
    this time around from what it says it is different.
    I am back....


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Let's see.....
    Posts
    4,463
    Isn't marriage a draft? On a Saturday you get conscripted with a "honey do" list...

    Originally posted by Torith
    Only way out of the draft is if you are married.
    73's, Kim
    Everything happens for a reason I make up.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    6,623
    Originally posted by EthicalEpi
    The most worrying part of that act is "and for other purposes.". I wonder what that could mean ? Surely the whole reason of the army is national defense, so I shudder to think what the 'other purposes' are.
    I don't think that's really a worry, or that it really has an important meaning. Language like that ("a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes") is simply to avoid getting hung up on whether every type of service involves "national defense and homeland security." Just a vague wording of the description of what military service means.

    Nothing about this bill would or could change the kinds of things the military does, other than the draft.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    Originally posted by KimmiKat
    Isn't marriage a draft? On a Saturday you get conscripted with a "honey do" list...
    lol kim

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    Originally posted by Torith
    Only way out of the draft is if you are married.
    Or if you are insane.....


    What?

    You heard me!

    You talking about me?

    Who else would I be talking about?

    You are crazy, not me.

    No YOU are crazy, I'm just fine.

    Go the hell.

    YOU go to hell.

    You can't talk to me like that.

    I can talk to you any way I want. I am Gen-T.

    No you are not. I AM Gen-T.

    I hate you.

    I hate YOU.

    I'm sorry...I didn't mean any of it. I love you.

    I LOVE YOU TOO!!!


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    3,262
    I love this country, but I will not die for our President. if I get drafted, I am moving to Canada.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,372
    Originally posted by Rob83
    I love this country, but I will not die for our President. if I get drafted, I am moving to Canada.
    You could just go and hide in your signiture Nobody will find you there. Well...except Chicken and the other renegades

    Simon

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    825
    Originally posted by JayC
    Just a vague wording of the description of what military service means.

    Nothing about this bill would or could change the kinds of things the military does, other than the draft.
    Vagueries in government acts do make me uncomfortable, and do make me worry. Admittedly not as much as if I was living in the US because this won't effect me (at least not directly), but the wording of that is something to be concerned about imho.

    How would you feel about buying a car with a waranty that had the disclaimer 'this warranty void if we feel like it for whatever reason we might decide at the time'. I know I'd be straight on the phone demanding to know exactly what that means.

    "Nothing about this bill would or could change the kinds of things the military does"
    How do you know? You can't know for sure because none of us know what's around the corner. If that act passes in that form, it's so vague as to allow for ALL possibilities. Why not just state exactly what "other purposes" they have in mind. If it isn't going to be anything different from what the military has done in the past, then why even use that phrase?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    7,954
    If the situtation justifies running a draft I might support it. If the draft is to support the war on terrorism. I would like too see a better plan of action.

    On the other hand the government could try and increase recruitment by raising salaries, education, benefits, etc. Before it becomes mandatory why not try to raises voluntary registration. Try making military service more popular.

  15. #15
    I wouldn't turn 27 until 15 days after that date given..but I am married.
    Apexware Hosting Solutions
    •• www.apexware.com
    ••• LOW Cost Budget Hosting
    •••• www.rockbottomhosting.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,517
    Im 26, looks like ill have to get married sometime soon

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    6,623
    Originally posted by EthicalEpi
    How do you know? You can't know for sure because none of us know what's around the corner. If that act passes in that form, it's so vague as to allow for ALL possibilities. Why not just state exactly what "other purposes" they have in mind.
    I appreciate, and agree with, your concerns about vagueness in thing's like the mission of the military. My point is that this bill has no content that affects what the mission of the military is.

    The military will do what it does, and any changes to that (which of course there may be) will come from other legislation or presidential order. Vaque wording in this bill about what military service might entail could be ascribed to laziness in writing it, or just the fact that specifics on this point aren't relevant to it. It doesn't matter what military service might mean you end up doing, this bill just says they can force you to be there doing whatever it is.

    This bill only affects the draft, and cannot change the mission of the military. How do I know? I've read it.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    7,175
    Originally posted by Rob83
    I love this country, but I will not die for our President. if I get drafted, I am moving to Canada.
    There was a news report floating around on reuters a few days ago, about 2 soldiers who have gone AWOL and fled to Canada.

    According to the article, they would face life in prison or the death penalty if/when they return to the US.

    ..I'll try to find that article

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    3,262
    Originally posted by Akash
    There was a news report floating around on reuters a few days ago, about 2 soldiers who have gone AWOL and fled to Canada.

    According to the article, they would face life in prison or the death penalty if/when they return to the US.

    ..I'll try to find that article
    I am well aware of that situation.

    And I do no thtink they should be penalized. If they no longer want to fight in Iraq, they should be able to be transferred to a base back here in the U.S. and serve their country from here.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,372
    Originally posted by Rob83
    I am well aware of that situation.

    And I do no thtink they should be penalized. If they no longer want to fight in Iraq, they should be able to be transferred to a base back here in the U.S. and serve their country from here.
    Really...so what would stop everyone else just deciding that they no longer had the stomach. These people signed on the dotted line. They took the silver shilling and now they are doing the job.

    If they desert then they deserve prison. I am from Europe and we do not support the death penalty here.

    If you desert the battlefield then you need to be examined and if found sane and in control you need to do some hard time.

    Simon

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    6,623
    I doubt that there's a country in the world (at least that actually has a military) in which deserters wouldn't face the strictest penalty they have allowable.

    There are other ways to get out of a front-line assignment. Simply deserting isn't going to be tolerated.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,769
    I'm telling ya.... just start talking to yourself a lot.... out loud where everybody can hear you. Then start arguing with yourself, and calling yourself names. Then run around swinging your arms left and right while yelling about the monsters chasing you.

    They will send you home.

  23. #23
    They would probably only serve a few years in prison and certainly wouldn't be executed. One of those guys is from my home town and used to work literally half a block from where I am right now. If you agree to join the military, you have to do your job. Surely you have to know that you may be forced to fight and it might not be something you agree with. Too bad, if you think you might not be willing to fight under any circumstance you shouldn't sign up.

    This one guy signed up after the Iraq stuff started knowing full what was going on there. He had no problem drawing pay from the Army for a year and it was only upon his unit being called up that he ran. It was all fine as long as he didn’t have to go fight. So it looks to be more a case of being scared than being based on principle.
    Apexware Hosting Solutions
    •• www.apexware.com
    ••• LOW Cost Budget Hosting
    •••• www.rockbottomhosting.com

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    3,262
    Originally posted by SimonMc
    Really...so what would stop everyone else just deciding that they no longer had the stomach. These people signed on the dotted line. They took the silver shilling and now they are doing the job.

    If they desert then they deserve prison. I am from Europe and we do not support the death penalty here.

    If you desert the battlefield then you need to be examined and if found sane and in control you need to do some hard time.

    Simon
    So? Ok. they signed up. To defend this country, what are we defending ourself from? Nothing.

    Do we really need to punish these people? It's bad enough they've been at war and probably are suffering some type of illness...

    War isn't pretty.. people deserve a 2nd chance.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Hot, hot Michigan...
    Posts
    3,506
    Originally posted by Akash
    Akash - WebHostingTalk.com
    I think I look pretty good in pink
    There's a joke in here about avoiding the draft. Somewhere.






    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Although I'm right on the fencepost of 'drafting/not-drafting age' (and will have passed it by the time this comes to fruition) I don't think I could support any administration that would draft for the iraq 'conflict' (we're not at war). The only draft I could support is one with the full authorized declaration of war by our representatives in congress.

    Quite frankly, I'm also unconvinced that the citizens of iraq 'have it in them' to democratize in the face of those who would try to stop it. Historically, democracy is often hard-won, requiring lots of sacrifice. Yet when things got 'hot' in iraq a lot of their freshly-built civil defense groups abandoned their posts. Democracy cannot be forced, it needs to happen from the inside out. I just don't want my countrymen to die against their wishes for people who don't even want what we're trying to give.

    Just my 2 cents

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •