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  1. #1

    Doing outsourced managed servers

    We currently operate a small NOC with 14 technical people working for us. We see that since we run an effective organisation more and more people are sitting there with arms crossed.

    We have experienced System managers and coders and would like to use them more usefull in the future.

    We are experienced with both FreeBSD and Linux.
    We can program in Borland Delphi, Borland C++ builder, PHP, Perl, Assembler, C# and Javascript.

    Current projects done include:
    1. CRM
    2. CMS
    3. automated domain registration services.
    4. Dialer and Antidialer for a 2 mayor telecom players.
    5. Bulletin of public information which sold about 100 copies to local goverment agencies and we currently market it extensively.
    6. Analysing tools.
    7. Billing systems

    We currently have 4 programmers and 9 system managers and 1

    I would like to hire out their services for projects and maintence of webservers (outsourcing). We have however not very much experiences with remote administration and would like to have some referal URLs of companies providing this kind of services.

    Also any tip or hint would be usefull.

    Thank you so much for your response. I am sure our people can work against competative rates.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Do you have a website that I can look at?

  3. #3
    A this point i would prefer to keep the website confidential We are also in the webhosting business in several countries and would like to be known on this forum as a provider of managed services.

    I hope you understand this response.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Ok - let me know if you ever make it public

  5. #5

    Here is a partial list:

    Huck and his team at

    Mouse and his team at

    Steve at

    Ryan at

    gpan at

    You should check out each one by email as well as telephone.

    Do not -- I repeat do not -- just do it by email.

    Body language makes up most of our communication; and at least by phone you get tone of voice, and you can get a feeling for whether or not you can trust the company.

    Prior to signing any contract, do ask for references; and check those by phone as well (the above companies have decent reputations; however, I would not be surprised by other companies who give you references whose email addresses go back to them <g> ).

    Fees can vary based on whether you are contracting for one time projects or recurring work; written service level agreements which have guaranteed response times along with payback to you for quality work not performed can also be an impact to the fees paid.

    I cannot speak for any of the companies listed above, but I know we have an easier time quoting for work when we are given examples of the type of work required.

    Just saying "I need a server managed" often does not provide the information necessary to provide an accurate quote.

    Do ask how long various tasks take to perform; and then gauge that back to the rate or fixed fee quoted. Does the hourly rate make sense? If something sounds too good to be true, it might be too good to be true.

    For example, I believe it would be fair to state that doing a good job securing a server that was never worked on (by the company or individual doing the securing) would take two to three hours doing the work by hand.

    NOTE: Yes, stuff can be automated; but then how much is missed in terms of red flags or warnings because of pure copy and paste or lack of quality checks and reviews through the process.

    If some one is charging $50 to secure the server, and they tell you it will take three hours, then they are making $16.67 per hour.

    That may sound like a lot, but a system administrator who has 5+ years of experience typically commands a starting (key word) salary of $50,000 per year plus full time benefits including sick time, personal time, vacation time, 401K (or comparable), etc.

    That often adds up to a value of $67,000 a year ($50,000 base plus benefits et all) which translates into $32.05 per hour.

    And given that most consultants are not 100% billable in terms of their time; a consultant is often told to take the yearly rate they desire and divide by 1,000 hours instead of 2,080 (40 x 52).

    So then you have the full time server admin working for themselves who needs to pull in at least $75,000 (benefits are more expensive if you are just you, yourself and you) to make a similar salary they made when working for some one else.

    And that $75,000 divided by the 1,000 billable hours translates to $75 per hour.

    So that two to three hour server hardening, in the very least, should run $150 to $225 (if not more considering they may have a lot more than 5 years experience).

    Thank you.
    Peter M. Abraham
    LinkedIn Profile

  6. #6
    I have used cheetaweb for a long time. Gpan is a genious, and is always willing to help out clients in any way. They never nickel and dime anyone, and always are willing to help out...

  7. #7
    dynamicnet i really love your input, thank you so much for the extensive list of information.

    I must add however that our programmers and experienced system administrators (we are 5 years in business as an ISP and are currently in the top10 of providers in our country) can work cheaper then most others because we are located in Eastern Europe. Charging about 25 Euro/hour seems to be a fair price.

    I agree that for 50$ you cannot really secure a server unless you automate everything and this is exactly what we do not want to do.

  8. #8

    We've found the value of skills in terms of EU depends on the country.

    For instance, I have relatives in Austria who share that Austria and Germany have salary structures comparable to the U.S.

    Thank you.
    Peter M. Abraham
    LinkedIn Profile

  9. #9
    I can share with you that a typical person in our country earns about 300 euro/month.

    This does not apply for skilled programmers and system administrators, who have ofcourse a higher salary. But it is nowhere near German salaries.

    We are in Eastern of Europe, you are refering to central European countries.

    We however pay our personel well and thereby keep our well trained and experienced personel. We also operate a fairly high end (for our country) NOC with two STM-1's directly to two parties and we are now in progress of getting a AS number with RIPE.

    Traffic however is not cheap here, so we operate a second NOC in the Netherlands.

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