# Thread: 10Mbps (3000GB In & 3000GB Out)

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## 10Mbps (3000GB In & 3000GB Out)

Hi guyz,

should i say anything? the subject says it all, coloquest.com are claiming that their 10Mbps could deliver 3000GB In & 3000GB out; what could i say , how could this ever happen? shouldnt a 10Mbps connection handle about 3210GBs per month, or if calculated (10MegaBits/s)/8 = 1.25 MegaBytes/s based that 1 Byte= 8 Bits (this is not very presice, since there are other variables that go into this calculation), however reach the same answer both ways.

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The math isn't really that straighforward, a thorough analysis should include some method to account for transients in the incoming and outgoing streams as well as the ratio of traffic in & out, among other variables.

Generally speaking, a typical server will see approximately 225-250GB in total transfer coincide with a 1mbps of 95th percentile usage. Servers with higher than average incoming bandwidth utilization (lower out/in ratio) could see higher totals. In my experience it is uncommon to have a server approach a 50/50 balance of incoming to outgoing usage, and even more uncommon that those totals approach anything close to 300GB per 1mbps in or out, but on rare occasions some customers do see it, particularly some heavily-used game servers.

Anyway, assuming the 10mbps connection is capped and not burstable, you'd probably max that port out at around 6-7mbps if measured at 95th percentile (again, depends on what kind of traffic you're pushing).

Assuming 7mbps @ 250GB/mbps/95th, I'd guess the average customer would max that 10mbps port out at approximately 1750GB/month, or around 30% of the unrealistic figure they've suggested. Even if the port were not capped, you're looking at approx 2500GB/month (10mbps*250GB/mbps/95), less than half of what's advertised. Keep in mind that 250GB figure could be high in and of itself; some of my customers are lucky to get 175GB per meg of traffic. There's really no way to predict exactly what your utilization will be; just know that's it's very unlikely it's going to be anywhere near 300GB/mbps.

Hope this helps,

Brandon

(edited to correct a typo)
Last edited by cbtrussell; 04-18-2004 at 12:39 PM.

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If you were serving ftp for instance and your ftp server was always packed and you had 10mbps pipe it could definitely give you 3000+GB in a month of output.. It's not measured 95th or anything like that (i asked) . It's simply a dedicated 10mbps port like if you bought a 10mbps port from anyone else. In theory it's possible to push over 3000gb out and suck 3000gb in since it's full duplex... will anyone ever utilize that much? Who knows? game servers would be perfect, so would ftp sites or just anyone who doesn't want to worry about a bandwidth limit... it's a hell of a deal if you ask me.. I have a server there myself but i don't have the 10mbps unmetered. Would be interested in hearing if anyone has tried it out

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Aboul -

It seems like every day you post on here asking about 10Mbps pipes "is it possible?", "how can they do this?", etc etc. Why don't you just try it out and see and let us all know instead of speculate as to whether or not it is a legitimate offer?

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Do you want me to send in my Server and check whether or not this connection will push 3000GB in and 3000 out? seems to me like you dont know a thing. How about you clever guy go and send them your server and try it out?

I asked a quetion here, and this was targeted to the decent people out there, if you just dont like it, then go somewhere else, you dont need to reply back you are not welcomed.

Besides whats your concern? why do you care if i post such a thing? are your body parts falling off? if yes, please do tell me.

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Originally posted by Aboul_YouseF
Do you want me to send in my Server and check whether or not this connection will push 3000GB in and 3000 out? seems to me like you dont know a thing. How about you clever guy go and send them your server and try it out?

I asked a quetion here, and this was targeted to the decent people out there, if you just dont like it, then go somewhere else, you dont need to reply back you are not welcomed.

Besides whats your concern? why do you care if i post such a thing? are your body parts falling off? if yes, please do tell me.

lol three letters l.o.l

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Aboul,

I'm not disputing the fact that this is an open forum and whether or not you can ask any questions you want. It's just tiring to see the same questions asked over and over and over with the same answers every time - let alone if these same questions are asked by the same person!

Usually when someone posts a question that has been asked by other people, the replies say "do a search". In this case, my reply to you is "check all your previous threads".

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thats what they say?? of cool i never new, how about i see you do a search and tell me if you find anything similar, or let say you search through my thread and give me the links to threads that are the same. I am waiting.

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A lot of people are saying it can't deliver 3000GB, or that it is false advertising to say that, etc. I've seen this as a common occurance, people complaining that hosts offer 10mbit/sec lines and say they can puch 3000GB in and out. The fact is, that's true. From what I've seen they all say they CAN push up to that amount. That is true. They never say it's optimal to do so or that they are even likely to see that throughput. Nothing about saying that is misleading.

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Well geuss what some company told me when i asked them about that:

"Think of a network as a 10,000 gallon pool of water. We have 5000 people drinking, each is allowed 10 gallons to drink. Obviously this pool could not give everyone their 10 gallons, but the average amount each person uses in reality is less than 1 gallon. Due to this acutal usage, we can allot such a large amount of water (10 gallons) per person.

This is how this bandwidth industry works, I hope this helps illustrates it to you."

isnt that funny? in other words we OVERSELL like hell, dont u get it!!!

Ok we all know that providers oversell, but to a certain limit, not to exceed it, unfortunately no one is willing to provide his customers with decent quality and service no more.

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I called up coloquest and talked to the owners.. It's not oversold. I don't think they are making any money off of it unless you use way less than 10mbps but it's definitely not overutilizied. I would imagine that not everyone will even use close to 10mbps unless it's a streaming or ftp server or maybe game server.. it's just the fact to know that no matter how much bandwidth you use the cost stays the same.. that's the best part

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It could push 3210GB in theory, but to do that, you would need to max out your pipe 24/7 for the whole month.

There's no tricks or lies in it. it's basically 10Mbps Cap connection and it's not metered. You could use it however you like.

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I'm surprised the original poster's question regarding inbound traffic hasn't been addressed clearly yet. Yes, of course, your 10Mb/s port (assuming full-duplex, which any reputable provider will supply) can pass 10Mb/s bidirectionally. You can indeed receive the same amount of data you can transmit. Why you would want to is another question. For hosting traffic, there's simply no reason to care about inbound bandwidth availability beyond making sure it's there and that the paths are sane / congestion free.

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A lot of people are saying it can't deliver 3000GB, or that it is false advertising to say that, etc. I've seen this as a common occurance, people complaining that hosts offer 10mbit/sec lines and say they can puch 3000GB in and out. The fact is, that's true. From what I've seen they all say they CAN push up to that amount. That is true.
Have you ever seen this for yourself? No, you haven't. Prove me wrong - please provide a MRTG output or similar source showing either

a. 3000GB ONE-WAY throughput on a 10mbps capped port, or
b. 6000GB BIDIRECTIONAL throughput on a 10mbps capped port.

It could push 3210GB in theory, but to do that, you would need to max out your pipe 24/7 for the whole month.
Minor point of clarification... I know how everyone arrives at the 3210GB +/- figure "in theory" - but 'maxing out your pipe 24x7' won't get you there on a 10mbps capped connection. If you disagree, please post your evidence (see MRTG request, above) and I'll shut up

Nothing personal guys, if you've got the proof I want to see it - let's keep the thread fun & educational

Brandon

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Originally posted by cbtrussell
please provide a MRTG output or similar source showing either
a. 3000GB ONE-WAY throughput on a 10mbps capped port, or
b. 6000GB BIDIRECTIONAL throughput on a 10mbps capped port.
The CTO over at Ev1servers has publicly posted MRTG reports of a 10mbps capped server on WHT before. So this would have been around 4000GB BIDIRECTIONAL.

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How about we just get an MRTG showing a server maxing out a 1mbit/sec connection for 24/7, that's the same thing, just a smaller scale. I don't feel like wasting 10mbit/sec of bandwidth here just to prove my point. So what you're saying is, it's impossible to use a full 10mbit/sec pipe 24/7? Why would that be?

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Originally posted by codywatkins
The CTO over at Ev1servers has publicly posted MRTG reports of a 10mbps capped server on WHT before. So this would have been around 4000GB BIDIRECTIONAL.
It's funny, as I was typing my last post I was thinking it would be cool to get some graphs from large volume provider the likes of EV1 or similar. Nice timing! 4000GB is close to what I would consider the 'real-world' maximum on a 10meg port. Still 33% below the oft-claimed 6000GB, though.

I just spoke with a colleague who suggested we could try an experiment, basically set up an application to push bits wide open between two decent boxes connected across a Cisco 1924 or similar. That should give a good run at a 'lab' max. Not that you'd ever see those numbers in a box connected to the public Internet with multiple users, but it'd be interesting to see what we get none the less. Any suggestions on what we should use to move data between the two boxes.. is there an existing piece of code that would suit the purpose?

Brandon

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You guys really need to stop thinking that 'in theory' is bs. 10mbit is 10mbit, if you push it 24x7 you WILL GET 108GIG a day out of it, PERIOD. The REASON that people sell 10mbit capped connections is EXACTLY the same reason people sell T1's.. If you buy a t1 are you going to PEG It 1.5mbps all day? Of course you aren't because you want some burst and you don't want it lagging to hell and back all day.. So everyone that sells t1's is now overselling according to you guys.. 10mbit unmetered is exactly like buying a t1 or a ds3 , say a 10mbit ds3. no difference.
Nobody is counting on you using the entire 10mbps 24x7.. the KEY is, to control your bandwidth, exactly like most people do on their cable modem... you install 'wondershaper' or something like that on your linux server and you set it at 9.5mbps and you use a qdisc like sfq to give fairness to the connections, etc etc so that it doesn't lag.. then you are free to utilize almost up to 9.9mbps right on the verge of it lagging with now packet loss because you have proper queuing mechanisms and THEN you can take full advantage of the bandwidth you get.. I don't understand how this got so confusing and how so many people think differently about it.. it's a matter of math and math doesn't lie (it's the only constant in the universe). The marketing strategies and and all the hubbub that has been floating around since the bandwidth war has numbed and diluted all of your minds.

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bigfoo, I agree completely, glad someone agrees with me :-)

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Originally posted by KarlZimmer
How about we just get an MRTG showing a server maxing out a 1mbit/sec connection for 24/7, that's the same thing, just a smaller scale. I don't feel like wasting 10mbit/sec of bandwidth here just to prove my point. So what you're saying is, it's impossible to use a full 10mbit/sec pipe 24/7? Why would that be?
I'll be honest, I don't see how you could max the pipe out in any circumstance other than the lab-type experiment I described above. Otherwise the headroom required by the traffic, combined with the trasients inherent to the flow of the traffic itself, guarantees you can never reach the 'theoretical' maximum.

But assuming you cap your 1meg connection, please do post it. Also describe how you are generating the traffic because I'd like to replicate if possible. If at all possible, try to use a real-world test employing multiple remote connections, since that's what really counts for your fellow WHT'ers. But even if it's lab type setup between two dedicated machines, I would like to see how close to 600~640GB you can get.

Brandon

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Brandon,

With download sites, ftp dump, and porn stuff. People do max the whole pipe 24/7 non-stop. I still have the graph for such a customer. And once I try to lift the port to 100mbps, and it instantly pushes 60+Mbps.

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Originally posted by bigfoo
You guys really need to stop thinking that 'in theory' is bs. 10mbit is 10mbit, if you push it 24x7 you WILL GET 108GIG a day out of it, PERIOD.
Simple enough to prove... back to the original poster's question, can you get 6000GB out of a 10meg port? Post a bandwidth graph for a publically available web server showing a combined 6000GB of bandwidth incoming + outgoing in the last month on a 10meg capped port, and you'll have proven your point.

I don't understand how this got so confusing and how so many people think differently about it.. it's a matter of math and math doesn't lie (it's the only constant in the universe). The marketing strategies and and all the hubbub that has been floating around since the bandwidth war has numbed and diluted all of your minds.
Well I hope you can appreciate that I believe that I am approaching this from a very practical, straightforward perspective. The very marketing bs and 'hubbub' you refer to is what I hope to refute.

For what it's worth, I haven't heard of 'wondershaper', so I'm going to check that out now. Sounds interesting.

Brandon

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Originally posted by Mfjp
Brandon,

With download sites, ftp dump, and porn stuff. People do max the whole pipe 24/7 non-stop. I still have the graph for such a customer. And once I try to lift the port to 100mbps, and it instantly pushes 60+Mbps.
OK, that's a helluva lot of demand. That sounds like about as good of a 'real-world' example as we're going to get if we're ever going to approach 6000GB. Can you post what a month on a 10meg capped port looks like?

Brandon

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This thread is gone off the deepend in a hurry. 10Mbit is 10Mbit, if your paying for it and cant push it change providers. As for the gigs you can push out, well that depends on your traffic paterns. We have clients that do 2500-2900 outbound gigs per month on a 10Mbit port...granted their port is maxed almost 24/7, but thats their perogative to not buy more bw.

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There is no relationship between size of pipe (Mbps) and GB unless you look at 100% utilization, which is almost impossible. You have a choice. You can buy by the amount of transfer or buy the size of the pipe.

If you ask a provider what a 10Mbps pipe can push he will tell you the amount of GB at 100% utilization. That is not a lie or misrepresentation. To advertise a 300GB server and to cap it at 1Mbps is misrepresentation in my opinion.

Bottom line: Buy it by the GB or by the size of the pipe, whichever is better for you. But dont buy it by the size of the pipe, then demand a big enough pipe to allow the amount of GBs that 100% utilization would provide.

You pick: Size of pipe or throughput. The only way for a provider to make money at \$300 for a 10Mbps connection is hoping you dont use all of it. If you wanted to buy it based GB at 100% utilization it would not be the same price.

You bought a 10Mbps pipe. If you were not able to push 10Mbps then you have a gripe. If you did not use all of the bandwidth you had available then it is not the provider's fault.

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<< The only way for a provider to make money at \$300 for a 10Mbps connection is hoping you dont use all of it. >>

Or...if the providers bandwidth is already bought and paid for, and they have major excess capacity going to waste - anything they can sell such for is extra profit/revenue.

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<< The only way for a provider to make money at \$300 for a 10Mbps connection is hoping you dont use all of it. >>

Or....if the provider can purchase bandwidth at below \$30/Mbps.

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<< Or....if the provider can purchase bandwidth at below \$30/Mbps. >>

Even that, Juniper and GSR dont' grow from trees. As well as staff and IP space...

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Actually, yes, I have seen this.

Large download sites especially, instantly jump to whatever you limit them at. The larger the site, the more obvious this is going to be.

Take the kernel.org mirror, for example. It fluctuates from about 70Mbit to well over 100Mbit. If all of a sudden its uplink port was set to 10/full (10Mbit, full duplex, ie. 10Mbit in and 10Mbit out capable), it would push just over 3000GB in and 3000GB out, 24/7.

Of course, users would be annoyed at horribly slow download speeds (overcontention), but it is certainly possible, and providers claiming that you can do this most certainly aren't lying.

In addition, there are some applications (backups come to mind) where there really isn't any performance problem by maxing out your port (whether your port is 10Mbit, 100Mbit or even gigE).

I'm confused as to why you say this simply isn't possible. I've seen it. I've got customers doing it. And it's certainly theoretically possible.

Have you ever seen this for yourself? No, you haven't. Prove me wrong - please provide a MRTG output or similar source showing either

a. 3000GB ONE-WAY throughput on a 10mbps capped port, or
b. 6000GB BIDIRECTIONAL throughput on a 10mbps capped port.

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Originally posted by nopzor
Take the kernel.org mirror, for example. It fluctuates from about 70Mbit to well over 100Mbit. If all of a sudden its uplink port was set to 10/full (10Mbit, full duplex, ie. 10Mbit in and 10Mbit out capable), it would push just over 3000GB in and 3000GB out, 24/7.
Well, it probably wouldn't have 10Mb/s or 3000GB/mo of inbound traffic. A 1:1 ratio is pretty hard to come by with an FTP mirror serving large files.

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Originally posted by Dilhole
This thread is gone off the deepend in a hurry. 10Mbit is 10Mbit, if your paying for it and cant push it change providers. As for the gigs you can push out, well that depends on your traffic paterns. We have clients that do 2500-2900 outbound gigs per month on a 10Mbit port...granted their port is maxed almost 24/7, but thats their perogative to not buy more bw.

Ok could you post us some MRTG graphs to prove your point, and besides what was the incoming traffic?

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Originally posted by jsw6
Well, it probably wouldn't have 10Mb/s or 3000GB/mo of inbound traffic. A 1:1 ratio is pretty hard to come by with an FTP mirror serving large files.

I dont think he was concerned on the ratio, but he wanted to exlpain that we should see numbers close to 3000IN and 3000 Out given that the In/Out was maxed 24/7 for the whole month.

Guyz, i dont really know what to say, but i think im gonna experiment on a 10Mbps connection, ill get myself a server on a 10Mbps connection for two months, and use some way to MAX the connection for the whole month, then get MRTG graphs and post them here, since no one is. Is anyone interested in joining? besides any ideas of how we could max out the line for the whole month? I do have some ideas as well.

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There's no need for you to do that. I think i have a customer that max it out 24/7 for the whole month non-stop if you want to see it.

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Originally posted by Mfjp
There's no need for you to do that. I think i have a customer that max it out 24/7 for the whole month non-stop if you want to see it.
Yes, please post it. It would certainly help put this argument to rest.

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The graph is kinda screw up. But it proves the point

http://ethr.net/10mbps.bmp

There are some times when the apache got stuck and can't serve, so the average is actually 8.6Megs. If it's maintained correctly, it would get to 3.2TB or so. Keep in mind this is for Feb as well, the month was 29 days i believe.

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Originally posted by jsw6
Well, it probably wouldn't have 10Mb/s or 3000GB/mo of inbound traffic. A 1:1 ratio is pretty hard to come by with an FTP mirror serving large files.
I wouldn't be surprised if kernel.org had 10Mbit of incoming constantly, given the extremely large number of sites it mirrors. But yeah, I understand what you're saying.

It doesn't change my point though, which is, it's absolutely possible ;-)

Cheers,

Raj

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There is no doubt that you can push that amount of data through a 10Mbps connection. Through simple math you should be able to show you can do that. The only question is whether the customer had access to the 10Mbps 24/7. If the answer is "no" then he got a bad deal. If he had access to it but didnt use it that is not the providers fault.

How about an analogy? You buy a Nextel cell phone with unlimited usage for \$200/month. 60min in an hour times 24 hours in a day times 30 days is 43,200. When you signed up the sales person told you that you could use all you want and never get billed more than that \$200. At 100% utilization that would only be \$.0046/minute. What a bargin!!! When your bill comes in you see you only used 4320 minute. Did the sales rep lie to you? No. And there is a good chance that that unlimited plan worked out more economical than buying the 1000 minute plan and paying overage. Should Nextel give you more phones for free to allow you to use all 43200 minutes? They will allow multiple phones on the same account, but not the unlimited plan.

When you buy bandwidth you have to look at what is best for you. Some like to buy by transfer and others buy by the Mbps. If you dont make the right choice for your situation it is not the providers fault.

Paul VanMeter

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If it's maintained correctly, it would get to 3.2TB or so.
Well, to be honest, that's what I'm hoping to see. Would someone *please* post a graph showing 3.2TB in a month (or even better, 6+ TB combined)?

(Nice load, btw, that's a well saturated line)

On a related note, what's the MAXIMUM throughout you guys get on a 10meg port? Your graph shows a 10.4mbps max, I've seen higher (up to 13mbps), but wondering what other's experiences are.

B

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Originally posted by pvanmeter
How about an analogy? You buy a Nextel cell phone with unlimited usage for \$200/month. 60min in an hour times 24 hours in a day times 30 days is 43,200. When you signed up the sales person told you that you could use all you want and never get billed more than that \$200. At 100% utilization that would only be \$.0046/minute. What a bargin!!! When your bill comes in you see you only used 4320 minute. Did the sales rep lie to you? No. And there is a good chance that that unlimited plan worked out more economical than buying the 1000 minute plan and paying overage. Should Nextel give you more phones for free to allow you to use all 43200 minutes? They will allow multiple phones on the same account, but not the unlimited plan.
Hi Paul,

Good analogy, but not exactly the same. Clearly there are a finite number of minutes in a month in which a cell user could talk. The point I was arguing was that you couldn't actually get the 6.4TB per month out of the 10meg port, so it'd be a form of false advertising. It appears we may soon have some evidence refuting my position, and I'll welcome it - so long as we finally put this to rest.

What I really am opposed to each time I bring this up is the point you made in an earlier post that providers usually quote a 95th value and its 100% utilization equivalent. Potential buyers don't understand 95th percentile billing, and assume that an offer for 300GB from one provider is equivalent to a 1mbps/95th offer from another. In all but the most extreme cases this simply isn't true, it's to the detriment of the uninformed consumer, and IMHO misleading advertising at best.

A plan that includes "up to" 300GB/month (or whatever) is not the same as a plan that includes 300GB/mo - maybe semantics to some, but an important point of differentiation for others. I'd like to see more providers be a little more forthcoming with their offerings.

B
Last edited by cbtrussell; 04-19-2004 at 11:04 AM.

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OMG, this thread is still going......... I have a question for you all.. I've been talking with some providers and if I could get them to offer a FREE colocation of a server on 10mbps unmetered connection for a month and then if you like it after 1 month you sign the contract, etc... how many of you would go for it?

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