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  1. #1

    * Dedicated server in england/UK

    I might need to rent a dedicated server in england. The server doesn't have to be very powerful and not either is a very fast connection required.

    UPS would be great, and also some kind of backup solution.

    However I have to be the only user on the server, or at least be sure that no one else but me can access my files on that server.

    However it has to be cheap =) Anyone knows where I can find what I am looking for?

    It will contain a gambling related site but that shouldn't be a problem in england, right?
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  2. #2
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    Will you be offering gambling facilities? If so you might want to do some research into UK gambling law, this might be a good place to start -
    http://www.gbgb.org.uk/intgambling.html
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  3. #3
    Thanks, but the site will only be gambling related. The problem is that you may not advertise for foreign gambling services in Sweden but that shouldn't be a problem in England, right?
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  4. #4
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    I think advertising is fine
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  5. #5
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    http://uk2.net/servers/

    They seem pretty cheap, but you will need to get a 3 years or 1 year contract.
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  6. #6
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    Have a look at
    http://www.dedicated-servers.co.uk
    http://www.inetc.net

    UK2 are pretty cheap, someone has already mentioned them
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  7. #7
    Yeah UK2 is in the lead right now =) Anyone knows even cheaper services?
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  8. #8
    Search this board before buying anything from UK2 - there are numerous tales of woe
    Invectis - Windows 2000, 2003 and MS SQL Server web hosting
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  9. #9
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    Avoid UK2 at all costs is my advice.

    They are cheap for sure, but there is a reason for this:
    1) Network is not as reliable as most others, and when it fails it takes UK2 quite some time to fix. (They have 0 staff in the datacenter 24/7, they only operate during office hours - so they have to wake someone up to wander off to london to fix it - excludes reboots, which is actually handled by RedBus Interhouse staff).
    2) Support is as close to non-existant as you can find, even the extra paid for telephone suport is a waste of money.
    NOTE: standard packages from UK2 contain NO support except via email.
    3) They once had a forum for servers at UK2, but there were too many complaints appearing about the support and networking issues that come up weekly - UK2 removed it and left all the server customers with out any form of helping each other at all.
    4) The service is so dire that in the early days of UK2 supplying servers the first few hundred customers created their own support system - http://www.uk2raq.com/ - just have a read through some of the many thousands of emails at the mailling list for this site - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/raq/ - no its not Cobalt/Sun RaQ specific anymore!

    I tell you this from experience, as I was formerly a ripped off customer of theirs for 3 looooooooong years - biggest mistake I have ever made!
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  10. #10

    *

    oh, ok thanks for warning me =) But are there any other cheap services?
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  11. #11
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    I'm curious to know why the server has to be in England.

    I have yet to find a dedicated server offered in a UK datacentre that has anything near the monthly transfer at a similar cost.

    UK2 (who don't have a great reputation for support, by the way) do say they offer 1Tbyte free for some servers, but don't indicate which ones.

    There are some good deals to be had on dedicated servers, but none of the ones in the UK seem competetive to me.

    Cheers,

    Mike
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  12. #12

    *

    Seems like starting a company in england is fairly simple and the rules are pretty much the same as in sweden.

    It is because of Englands gambling laws. Advertising foreign gambling sites in sweden is illegal.

    Do you know a better country for me? =)
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  13. #13
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    The obvious answer is the US - certainly servers in the US are better priced than the UK.

    As for the business side of things, I'm not sure that just having a server outside of Sweden is enough so that it is considered that you are not advertising in Sweden. This is probably why you mentioned setting up the company in England.

    I guess you could do both - run a company that has a server in the States.

    Mike
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  14. #14
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    Hi,

    Try taking a look at www.dedipower.com they offer pretty cheap servers.

    S
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Schumie
    Hi,

    Try taking a look at www.dedipower.com they offer pretty cheap servers.

    S
    They look quite good, but ... here are the broad specs for one of their mid range servers:

    Intel 2.6Ghz P4
    512MB PC2700 RAM
    80GB IDE Hard Drive / 7200 RPM
    150GB transfer per month

    and that comes in at 99 + vat @17.5% which is over US$200 and only has 150G bandwidth. CPanel is an extra 35 +vat per month.

    Looking at many of the offers in the offers section here at WHT, you will find a mid range server like that with 500GB transfer (or commonly 1TB !) including CPanel for US$150. For example,
    Beach Comber Creations have a $149.99 deal on at the moment.

    I just don't understand why UK bandwidth is so expensive compared to US prices. One has to have a very good reason to host in the UK, or have sites that don't need much in the way of bandwidth.

    Mike

    edit for spelling
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  16. #16
    Right now I'm thinking of registering the company in UK but to buy webspace from some other country, perhaps the US.

    I might not even need a dedicated server it is just that I don't want people to be able to read my PHP source and other files. And I would be the only one on a dedicated server.
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  17. #17
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    I just don't understand why UK bandwidth is so expensive compared to US prices. One has to have a very good reason to host in the UK, or have sites that don't need much in the way of bandwidth.

    Mike

    edit for spelling
    I think BW in the US is cheaper because most of the traffic generated in the US stays in the US as there are many sites hosted in the US. From the UK on the other hand traffic often has to leave the country travelling over expensive transatlantic lines.

    Thats my theory anyway lol - I know in South Africa where I am originally from the country only has one 100MB line leaving the country, and thats for a population of 47Million, can you imagine what the BW Charges are like over there lol. And the speed of international traffic is terrible, even when on leased lines and Broadband.
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  18. #18
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    In the UK, their is truly only 1 major backbone provider, BT (British Telecom). They provide most of the national tails for most service providers... ie: if you purchase a circuit from MCI/ UUNet, it will be delivered over BT copper/ fiber.

    You go to the US, and you can travel from north to south/ east to west over probably, 5 - 10 different providers, if not more??

    S
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  19. #19
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    I've heard some good things about uk2
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by Schumie
    In the UK, their is truly only 1 major backbone provider, BT (British Telecom). They provide most of the national tails for most service providers... ie: if you purchase a circuit from MCI/ UUNet, it will be delivered over BT copper/ fiber.
    NTL also have a large backbone, which extends through to Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland.
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  21. #21
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    BT is not the only Tier-1 transit provider in the UK. Tier-1 is defined as non-fee based providers. eg. they only peer and do not pay for transit or any on-net facilities. Or, at least that is part of it.

    BT is a major data transport provider. However, there is also Kingston, COLT, Energis, NTL, Telewest etc.

    For transit you can have level3, cw, uunet, colt, tiscali, thus. I would call each of those tier-1.
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  22. #22
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    tsn.uk.com and poundhost.com both way below the links posted so far.
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  23. #23
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    Originally posted by d_l0rd
    Yeah UK2 is in the lead right now =) Anyone knows even cheaper services?
    you want cehap, or you want fast and reliable ?

    and do a search (here and on google groups) before you take a dedi from uk2 or any other supplier for that matter

    if you're relying on something from a busienss perspective, I *dont* think price should be your overriding selection criteria - the putting together of the words cheap and sh!t exists for a reason

    what budget, what spec, what transfer requirement - provide soem more info and perhaps a few real recommendations can be made
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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  24. #24
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    I just don't understand why UK bandwidth is so expensive compared to US prices. One has to have a very good reason to host in the UK, or have sites that don't need much in the way of bandwidth.
    yup good reasons ...
    like you want a decent speed to your uk customers
    or you want to be able to go visit the kit (colo)
    or you want support that isn't 8 hours behind (or farmed out to india)
    or you want to pay in GBP
    or you want a decent ranking on google.co.uk
    or you dont want your customers knowing you host at racksh!t
    or ...
    lots of good reasons

    DATA-TRANSFER is generally more expensive in the UK because of a variety of reasons ...

    1. the telecoms companies charge more in the UK than the US. Stateside it's a cut-throat pricing arena, inside the US they know they can fallback on Ch.11 when they go t!tsup.com whereas they cant elsewhere

    2. the individual transit suppliers dont oversell the transfer 30:1 like some US based suppliers - it's much more common for isp's to ofrer 1:1 uncontended service - you pay for 10Mb/s you *get* 10Mb/s not an empty promise of 100Mb/s that delivers as 2Mb/s in the vain hope people actually only use 128Kb/s

    3. people outside of the US often realise there's no such thing as a free lunch the *first* time they get burned by a bucket-host, rather than leaping from host-2-host as we see regularly on WHT ...

    and finally,
    4. transfer isn't used so much as a d!ck waving exercise this side of the pond - i've got 500Gb, i've got 700, i've got a terrabyte, mines bigger than yours - generally you find that people order what they need, and what they'll actually use, rather than some imaginary high number than cant be delivered upon for bragging rights

    HTH
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by othellotech
    yup good reasons ...
    like you want a decent speed to your uk customers
    or you want to be able to go visit the kit (colo)
    or you want support that isn't 8 hours behind (or farmed out to india)
    or you want to pay in GBP
    or you want a decent ranking on google.co.uk
    or you dont want your customers knowing you host at racksh!t
    or ...
    lots of good reasons

    DATA-TRANSFER is generally more expensive in the UK because of a variety of reasons ...

    1. the telecoms companies charge more in the UK than the US. Stateside it's a cut-throat pricing arena, inside the US they know they can fallback on Ch.11 when they go t!tsup.com whereas they cant elsewhere

    2. the individual transit suppliers dont oversell the transfer 30:1 like some US based suppliers - it's much more common for isp's to ofrer 1:1 uncontended service - you pay for 10Mb/s you *get* 10Mb/s not an empty promise of 100Mb/s that delivers as 2Mb/s in the vain hope people actually only use 128Kb/s

    3. people outside of the US often realise there's no such thing as a free lunch the *first* time they get burned by a bucket-host, rather than leaping from host-2-host as we see regularly on WHT ...

    and finally,
    4. transfer isn't used so much as a d!ck waving exercise this side of the pond - i've got 500Gb, i've got 700, i've got a terrabyte, mines bigger than yours - generally you find that people order what they need, and what they'll actually use, rather than some imaginary high number than cant be delivered upon for bragging rights

    HTH
    Lol, thats a classic
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  26. #26
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    I would suggest looking at tsn.uk.com - very cheap pricing for IP transit.
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  27. #27
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    lol yeah the post was funny but also grossly exaggerated, good points about google.co.uk and the colo but thats it in my opinion.

    Latency yes, transfer speeds no, customer smostly will be on connections from home and good us providers have no problem maxing out uk connections. Support is irrelevant if it is provided 24/7, have you got any proof that all uk contention is 1:1, I find that very unlikely even tho it's expensive it would be a lot more expensive if it was 1:1, its all contended on both sides of the ocean what matters is how the provider handles the contention as to how it affects the customer, I have no problem getting 10mbit speeds on my 10mbit port, As for jumping ships I have used 3 providers in the last year and the only one I have jumped from is the uk provider, I am still using my 2 us providers. There are good us providers and there are poor ones and its exactly the same in the uk.
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  28. #28
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    >Latency yes, transfer speeds no

    so an extra 70ns roundtrip on *every* lookup, *every* graphic of the gazillion bits of your templated website, *every* email etc is acceptable ...

    >good us providers have no problem maxing out uk connections

    doesn't mater about the provider, when crossing the atlantic most traffic goes through pipes like TAT14 - remember when that went down recently - the US vanished for a fortnight ...

    >proof that all uk contention is 1:1

    I can only speak from experience , the hosts that I work closely with and our own systems. Other than a few bucket-shops the transit is uncontended with UK hosts that have their systems in the UK

    >good us providers and there are poor ones and its exactly the same in the uk

    I totally agree

    For the best *user* experience as opposed to best price for the host though, I believe in putting the data as close to the viewer as possible ...
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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  29. #29
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    I've had bad experiences with UK2's service before. You'll find plenty of unhappy customers around the net voicing the same opinion as this. You get what you pay for I guess...

    Dedipower on the other hand are great. I had a server with them just after they started up. Support was top draw. They have a much better infrastructure now as well.
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  30. #30
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    when you say uncontended do you mean as in uncontended they wont oversell traffic or a customer on a 100mbit port is garantueed to always get 100mbit throughput because those two are different things, and the latter would be very very expensive, there is probably more overselling going on in the us but I think its a good thing as long as they get the balance right as overselling keeps prices lower but if overdone will affect performance. Personally I dont really notice the extra ms delay when loading websites hosted in the us what I do notice it on is things like ssh sessions and irc but its something I accept for the money I pay.
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  31. #31
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    Generally the people that insist that there's no benefit to hosting servers in the UK are the ones that can't be swayed by any kind of argument.

    There _are_ lots of benefits, and there are lots of customers who appreciate these benefits, otherwise we (and the other UK dedicated/colo hosts) would've disappeared long ago.
    Robin Balen
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  32. #32
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    Great post, Rob - as someone has said, a classic.

    To counter some of your points:
    - speed to the UK has never been an issue on my sites
    - there are many places that offer true 24 hour support and UK hosting companies with servers in the US can offer non-time shifted support with US bandwidth prices who will bill in UKP
    - Google ranking is server location independent
    - Where things are more expensive, there is a greater temptation to over-sell to make sure you get as much value for your investment.
    - This whole thing is not specific to cheap end of hosting - hosts with UK servers charge more for bandwidth regardless of their positioning in the market - it is not a question of an unsustainable business model.
    - As for the macho side of things - I agree to a point, but some sites do actaully need a whole bunch of transfer. In my little hosting business, potential customers always request more than they will need this year let alone this month. If I am too offer them the bandwidth they want without overselling whilst still remaining competitve in this global industry.

    In my little web site business I have a couple of sites that use up nearly 25Gigs transfer a month on html/css alone and over 500G in image/media files. I wouldn't want to pay UK prices for that.

    Regards,

    Mike
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  33. #33
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    Originally posted by robinbalen
    Generally the people that insist that there's no benefit to hosting servers in the UK are the ones that can't be swayed by any kind of argument.

    There _are_ lots of benefits, and there are lots of customers who appreciate these benefits, otherwise we (and the other UK dedicated/colo hosts) would've disappeared long ago.
    Horses for courses, I guess. In my day job I have a couple of co-located servers in the UK - the bandwidth really wasn't as issue with those contracts it was more to do with reliability and support - in fact I can't even remember how much bandwidth was included in the contract. The web sites are pretty low usage at any rate.

    However, in my own sites and business, bandwidth is the key resource - why pay more than I need to.

    UK people seem to be over charged for everything - cars, trainers, computers, TVs, and bytes. I don't know why we put up with it
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  34. #34
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    Well if you don't want to pay more for things in the UK, get everyone to take a wage cut then - Then prices will go down
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  35. #35
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    Originally posted by KDAWebServices
    Well if you don't want to pay more for things in the UK, get everyone to take a wage cut then - Then prices will go down
    Cough splutter A what? LOL
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  36. #36
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    > - Google ranking is server location independent
    o
    you might want to explain that to google then - *regional* indexes require a regional domain or verifiable regional IP
    you host in the US you will *NOT* have a UK IP address and potentially will not appear in google.co.uk

    >potential customers always request more than they will need this year let alone this month

    education is the key .. we have to explain the difference between bandwidth a nd tranfer to Hosting companies far too often ...

    like you said, horses for courses, i prefer mine @ ascot, rather than austin texas
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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  37. #37
    Some massive exageration going on here.

    For the average web site a visitor / user would notice no difference whatsoever between it being hosted in the UK or US.

    When was the last time you visited Google from the UK and noticed it was slow ? or Microsoft ? or Yahoo - they're not, the difference is 1/10th of a second and if you can notice that then you're a better man than me.

    There are some advantages to the servers being in the UK but that doesn't mean there's a *problem* with hosting in the U.S.

    Oh, and the price differential IS ridiculous though I can understand the reasons for it.
    Invectis - Windows 2000, 2003 and MS SQL Server web hosting
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by othellotech
    > - Google ranking is server location independent

    you might want to explain that to google then - *regional* indexes require a regional domain or verifiable regional IP
    so my .co.uk hosted in hong kong (or anywhere else for that matter) is OK! Sounds pretty well location indepenent to me

    I still see very little in what's been said to justify the additional expense of hosting in the UK.

    Regards
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  39. #39
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    >When was the last time you visited Google from the UK

    only use google.co.uk, cant say ever noticed any speed differences - oh contrary to the myth of location they keep it in europe to make it faster :p
    216.239.59.104

    >or Microsoft ?

    *regularly* slows down, we are an MSDN Universal subscriber, been picking up some updated iso 's - that are coming via the US - started to crawl when you woke up :p

    we peer with MS in the UK, blinding speeds for the things that are here - windows update is almost instant from a newly installed w2k server

    > Yahoo

    who ?

    >the difference is 1/10th of a second

    the difference is on *every* lookup, every piece of information, graphic heavy templated sh!te takes noticably longer - as you'd expect - it's got further to go, more things to go through, and more places to b0rk on the way !

    the pipe between the UK and US has a finite size (pity the designers of TAT14 didn't get some of your fabled unlimited bandwidth for $2 a month) - at busy periods i.e 8am - 8pm US time it's very different in "browse speed" to 8am UK time !

    oh look, a notice from BT about ADSL main pipe yesterday outage - wow, thats a suprise - the US just vanished off the internet as far as we're concerened for about 1m40s !

    AFAIAC the only reason *not* to host for the UK in the UK is the imagined or real price difference, and as a host we believe decisions should be made about the quality, reliability and speed of the service(s), not solely about can we get it 20$/mb cheaper ...
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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  40. #40
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    Hmm Microsoft has never ever been below max speed for me, I found it a good way to speedtest my own connection as its so fast. I also cant remember the us suddenly dissapearing of the net as well, I think exaggerating about things to justify higher prices isnt very fair to be honest.
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