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  1. #76
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    Well, this is a perfect case-study material for any business admin student.
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  2. #77
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    Originally posted by rusko
    Actually, you are fully aware of who we are. You asked for specific pricing and I refused to sell at that price. You are now apparently quite sour about that, since you had to go with a provider that is not as attractive.

    Lying will get you nowhere: stop trying to tarnish our reputation.

    As for who we are, for those who are not familiar, we are the largest dedicated server provider in Peer1-NYC.

    Paul
    Nope I'm not sour about anything. Why would I be? We have the exact same machines on the exact same bandwidth for half the price you quoted us with someone else.

    I never felt compelled to tarnish your reputation paul. As stated I know nothing about your services besides a phone conversation with you. I am only going by what was posted here.

    As far as reputation... You seem to have me confused with someone else. I care very little what you or anyone else thinks of me personally. I have never felt the need to kiss anyones butt for anything especially on a public message board. I refuse to be fake like alot of people are. You don't like what I say don't read it.

    With that being said I hope you two guys can open up communication again and get this worked out. Nobody likes a private issue being dealt with in public but alas it has become one so you both should expect "opinions"
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  3. #78
    Here is some more communication for you guys.

    Here is some more refusal of communication

    http://207.44.181.160/comm1.GIF
    http://207.44.181.160/comm2.GIF
    http://207.44.181.160/comm3.GIF

    http://207.44.181.160/comm4.GIF

    Be sure to read the dates on the emails. APRIL 4th. It's not like I waited to tell him about the issues. I have 25+ servers, I d promotions to run, i had money to make back.. I wanted to expose the issues as soon as possible and get them fixed

    Now you have to understand, I was really upset at this point. yeah, the email might of been a little harsh, but come on guys... i had been waiting so long, and then this is what i get??? this is what ive been waiting for.... crappy speeds that are no good to me

    explanations that do me NO GOOD.

    http://207.44.181.160/comm5.GIF

    Maybe I was wrong for asking for a full refund, but i still shouldnt get $747 he offered me , i should be getting at least $1100...

    Paul can gladly keep the set up fee of the ONE SERVER i actually received for the brief period that i received it (server went offline after 18-24 hrs)

    but i should at least get back $1100, not $747
    Last edited by Detroit Red; 04-16-2004 at 02:38 PM.
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  4. #79
    Originally posted by Detroit Red
    I did not refuse to talk to paul. I CALLED PAUL EVERYDAY while i was waiting for the servers. I called march 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, 31st, april 1st, april 2nd, april3fd.. i CALLED. I COMMUNICATED. How could you say I didn't??

    Here is proof i communicated EVERY SINGLE DAY. EVERY SINGLE DAY PEOPLE.
    Tariq, once again, you are not making an effort to understand what is being said. To quote myself: 'communicate on the matter of cancellcation and refund'. Is that hard to understand?

    If you recall, after you sent in the cancellation notice and I attempted to talk to you in the IM window we were having a conversation in, you said 'refer to my email'. After that you stopped responding. To me, this constitutes not communicating.


    I never said that you were horrible people, and if i implied that i'm sorry, but what i was trying to get across was that not that you were horrible people, but that you guys took so long to get simple things done, i couldnt take it anymore.
    You start a thread titled 'Nightmare with [Company]' and this is supposed to get across what, exactly? C'mon now.


    And solid solution not given. Not only did I receive crappy speeds, but it took 17 days to "offer" this "solid solution" that took so long to craft.....
    You are lying, not listening or both. The end result was the machine with good download speeds. You were just bent on causing us harm at that point, so maybe that fact escaped you.

    And yes, it does take time to get things done right sometimes. This was clearly communicated to you. Have you *ever* dealt with a provider that would custom-fab heatsinks for your machines?


    Yes, and I did say i couldn't fax it immediately, there is nothing wrong with this, but that doesn't mean i had no intentions of doing so.. after i started seeing the crazy delays, calling you everyday, and then hearing "we're still not happy with the cooling"

    i wasn't too excited about faxing in anything. so days and days went on, I completely forgot to even ask you about the fax, or the documents, and you didn't even bother to ever bring up again.

    regardless of if i forgot, you did not never at any point send me, show me, give me the contract agreement
    It has been emailed to you. If you have not received it, you needed to ask me to re-send it. Why do I feel like I have said this before already? Ahh, it's because I have.


    so even if i couldnt fax it in right away, you still didn't send it to me to begin with, so there was no way i could have faxed it in period.
    You can claim that you never received it. How can you claim that we never sent it?



    Listen, what you need to understand paul is your vendor issues, and these "variables" that lead the 1 box to take 17 days are not my problem. I paid for 3 servers, and it took you 17 days to deliver only one, and some crappy speeds.
    I am getting severely annoyed here. Please stop lying about speeds. Please. This point has been beaten to death already. There was an issue intially, it was resolved and at the time of cancellation you were able to download at 32 Mb/s from UUNET.


    If you SAW issues, or "variables" ahead of time, why did you take my order? If you saw these issues coming, why waste my time. why not tell me look i'm not sure if i'll be able to deliver this in a timely manner, blah blah. nope.. had to make me wait.
    C'mon now. All of this has been clearly communicated to you during our initial phone conversation. 7 business days is what it usually takes to provision configs we have experience with. IT was clearly stated that this is the best case scenario and that we would do our best to stick to it. We tried our best and, given everything that came up, a 3-4 business day delay was very reasonable.


    So you say i never communicated with you. Well, sure doesn't sound like it since according to you i was quite happy to call. I called EVERYDAY folks. EVERYDAY. Me, the guy who did not communicate, called everyday, even when the one box was up.
    You refused to communicate with me on the matter of the refund. This is all I said. You hyst don't want to read what I am saying.


    I don't know why you had this idea i was against you. I was never against you. If i was against you i would have filed for a refund a long time ago, way before the boxes were up. All i wanted was my servers, so i kept calling because everyday you would say a date,
    I never promised a date. The date given to you was clearly described as an expectation, pending any issues.


    and it would never come through, so of course i'm going to get frustrated and keep calling... so you got the vibe i was against you, when all it was was that you kept saying these dates that the server was going to be up but it never came through until finally april 3rd - and that was only ONE.
    You were rude on the phone. I do not recall *any* of our clients ever speaking to me in that tone of voice. In hindsight, I should have nullified the agreement at that time. Do you not recall that i was forced to ask for a timeout and go on a 10 minute monologue explaining that we are on your side and there are no enemies involved? I didn't do it just for kicks - I had no other choice at that point.


    I didn't say that. Everytime you came to me telling me about the cooling issues, each time i said "just go ahead and work on the box"

    Never once did I say that i wanted to take the box as is, or a box that was going to melt down easily.
    Yes, you did. You stated 'these are my boxes, why can't I decide?'. To which I replied that we own the hardware, so it is our call to make.

    \
    I *CANT* use a box with these speeds. You never understood that. I can't afford to wait another who knows how long it is going to take just to get the speeds fixed, and the rest of the machines up.
    THIS ISSUE WAS NOT PRESENT AT TIME OF CANCELLATION. STOP LYING AND OMMITTING FACTS.


    Ah yes, the lecture on throughput. Despite this lecture, the fact still remained... i did not receive usable speeds with the server i received. i paid for 3 servers received only 1 with unusable speeds
    see caps text above.

    ----------

    I have a fever and a headache. I have posted all I could and all I care to post.

    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
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  5. #80
    I have received private communications from providers who have had negative experiences dealing with you to various degrees. You have a pattern of rude, unprofessional behaviour as well as delinquency.

    You are a fraud.

    I am done with this thread. I posted all I could. You put words in my mouth, refuse to understand what is being said and constantly repeat the same fallacious statements over and over.

    It seems like you are trying to talk to me through WHT. You had a chance to do that before filing the fraudulent chargeback. Now fess up and live with the consequences of your underhanded actions.

    As stated, I have a fever and a headache. So please don't hold the lack of response from this point forward against me.

    Paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

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  6. #81
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    Just to add my few cents for you to chew on.

    I was one of the original people who pointed Tariq towards Rusko, I had dealt with him previous (non-server business) – just generally and he seems to know what he doing well.

    Tariq did keep me updated on day-by-day basic with the status and from what I understand he has been given quite a run around before any service was provided.

    I also had the chance to login and check the speed and can confirm it was not normal and very inconsistent, even after Rusko had informed Tariq he had fixed it.

    Tariq did ask me for this opinion and to be quite honest knowing he was running game-servers he did not have many options... a) Wait it out to see if it improves or b) Cancel service.

    Tariq told me he sent an email to Rusko, who then asked him on AIM about the speed and few minutes later logged off AIM and at the same time removed his server off the network.

    Tariq then received an email the following day that he would not refund the setup fees etc which is when Tariq messaged me he was filling a buyers complaint with Paypal before Paypals time period expired. I was very surprised at the reply from rusko about no refund to say the least as I can confirm speeds were not normal.

    I don’t think Tariq has been inpatient and nor has he expected too much from Rusko, I think it has been one of those sour instances for Rusko which is very abnormal.

    I guess we all have our own opinions on how this should have been dealt and who is at fault, lets just remember to take both parties circumstances into consideration.

    Hope you all have a great weekend.
    Last edited by s.h.a.zz.y; 04-16-2004 at 03:03 PM.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  7. #82
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    Originally posted by rusko

    <<snip>>
    I have a fever and a headache. I have posted all I could and all I care to post.
    At this point... I think you're wasting your breath. Your reputation on WHT speaks for itself.

    Also, I think this speaks for itself:


    Detroit Red
    Account Disabled
    Sirius
    I support the Human Rights Campaign!
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  8. #83
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    Originally posted by sirius
    At this point... I think you're wasting your breath. Your reputation on WHT speaks for itself.

    Also, I think this speaks for itself:



    Sirius
    People with a reputation do not make mistakes? Grow up people.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  9. #84
    I would just like to point a few things out, that I happened to notice (I notice details....that's what I do )

    I noticed that in numerous instances you admitted to your share of the confusion, and aggravation, but alas it was "no big deal." Yeah so you made it difficult for Paul, by questioning his need for use of a serial console..."big deal" right? Practically everything you admitted to that was on your end, was in your words "No big deal," yet practically all of it seems to have contributed to the issue.

    Now, I come to screenshot:
    http://207.44.181.160/comm4.GIF

    Earlier you had stated that you had never received the contract, etc... yet in this email you clearly state "I entered into a contractual agreement with you for you to provide me with 3 usable dedicated servers for game servers"

    Now man, either you entered into the agreement or you didn't, which is it?

    Now, as far as "TIME AND MONEY MAN" are concerned I would have to ask.....Do you not think this took his time as well? How about the additional money that Paul stated was spent on yet a 4th server, just so you could get the 1 box running when it did?

    I personally have a real problem with people filing PayPal disputes at the drop of a hat, and then adding to the story for PayPal, in hopes that PayPal will sympathize. Of course, I and everyone else, with exception to yourself and Paul, can only go by what is posted here.
    Mark - Owner/Lead Designer
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  10. #85
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    Originally posted by s.h.a.zz.y
    People with a reputation do not make mistakes? Grow up people.
    Hmmm... you must have "your own english" translator on. No where did I say that.... thanks for your input though.

    Sirius
    I support the Human Rights Campaign!
    Moving to the Tampa, Florida area? Check out life in the suburbs in Trinity, Florida.
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  11. #86
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    Originally posted by sirius
    Hmmm... you must have "your own english" translator on. No where did I say that.... thanks for your input though.

    Sirius
    Erm no, unless you have an issue understand what you posted ... It states or comes across as " your reputation is good therefore you dont need to address the cause and you made no mistakes
    " ....

    Rusko's continous "you are lying" (about the network speed) is a lie in itself. I verfieid it myself twice and the speed was inconsistant and abnormal on both occasions over few hours.

    I know that the network speed part is not a lie, maybe you should address that Paul.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  12. #87
    Originally posted by s.h.a.zz.y
    JI was very surprised at the reply from rusko about no refund to say the least as I can confirm speeds were not normal.
    speeds were at 32+ Mb/s from UUNET at the time of cancellation. please dont make me post (this) again.

    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

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  13. #88
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    I'm sorry, but I honestly don't see a problem trying to request a refund for a service he was never given. If you asked me, your beef should be with PayPal and their policies, not a client just trying to get the refund he deserves.

    Originally posted by rusko
    When the client *refuses* to talk to me so we can come to an agreement, there is nothing I can do. Moreover, after said client submits a malicious chargeback with the intent to hurt us as much as possible, my willingness to communicate firther on the matter is greatly reduced. As an FYI, setup charges are there to compensate for our provisioning expenses, including hardware purchase. We now have *4* AMD boxes (you will see why in the post).

    In short, had the client talked to us, we would have agreed on a resolution and you would have never seen this thread.

    After being financially and administratively affected by the malicious chargeback, it is now a matter of principle. The fact that he decided not to fax in the contract does not absolve him from his contractual responsibilities. If he did not agree to the terms, he should not have ordered. Likewise, if he had not received the contract, as he claims, it was his responsibility to let me know so I could deliver it to him - I am not telepathic, I can not fix something I do not know is broken.

    Paul
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
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  14. #89
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    Originally posted by rusko
    speeds were at 32+ Mb/s at the time of cancellation. please dont make me post (this) again.

    paul
    Paul, roughly 45mins before Tariq messaged me the server has been taken offline I was on the server and the speed was not "normal" at any length ....

    You cannot sit there and tell me what I saw during my ssh session on the server, I am not sticking up for Tariq nor you, I am only stating the facts which I happen to be able to due to the fact I advised him to try yourself and he followed it up with me.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  15. #90
    If anyone cares here is my outsider opinion. Detroit Red did have some valid concerns, but I think these mainly stemmed from a lack of understanding in what was being done. Given the explanation it seems they did all they could for the guy, but I don't completely fault him as from his point of view he is right as well. Now that the facts have come out I think that it would be in your best interest Detroit to see that he was doing everything he could and gave reasonable explanations for the time it was taking. I say just work out something together to refund what you can both agree on and let this matter drop.
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  16. #91
    Originally posted by s.h.a.zz.y
    Rusko's continous "you are lying" (about the network speed) is a lie in itself. I verfieid it myself twice and the speed was inconsistant and abnormal on both occasions over few hours.

    I know that the network speed part is not a lie, maybe you should address that Paul.
    Shazzy,

    Please dont pull a Tariq and read what I posted.

    1. Speed issue because of switch config.
    2. Issue fixed.
    3. Throughput issue reported.
    4. I console into the switch, dont see any config issues.
    5. I verify the problem again, it is gone.
    6. Speeds are at 32 Mb/s from UUNET and remain such for 1-2 hrs+.
    7. I explain that I cant tell what happened and assure Tariq that this is the first time I've seen it (outside of the borked switch) and will be resolved *if* it *ever* comes up again.
    8. Cancellation comes in from Tariq.

    You most likely checked the speed between points in time 3 and 4. You are most welcome to a shell account on one of our test servers for as long as you want it to verify that there is no speed issue, intermittent or otherwise.

    Hope this clears it up.

    Paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

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  17. #92
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    Originally posted by Jhorra
    If anyone cares here is my outsider opinion. Detroit Red did have some valid concerns, but I think these mainly stemmed from a lack of understanding in what was being done. Given the explanation it seems they did all they could for the guy, but I don't completely fault him as from his point of view he is right as well. Now that the facts have come out I think that it would be in your best interest Detroit to see that he was doing everything he could and gave reasonable explanations for the time it was taking. I say just work out something together to refund what you can both agree on and let this matter drop.
    ditto and I am sure Paul will take the professionalism I have known him to have and resolve this to the best interest of both parties.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  18. #93
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    Originally posted by rusko
    Shazzy,

    Please dont pull a Tariq and read what I posted.

    1. Speed issue because of switch config.
    2. Issue fixed.
    3. Throughput issue reported.
    4. I console into the switch, dont see any config issues.
    5. I verify the problem again, it is gone.
    6. Speeds are at 32 Mb/s from UUNET and remain such for 1-2 hrs+.
    7. I explain that I cant tell what happened and assure Tariq that this is the first time I've seen it (outside of the borked switch) and will be resolved *if* it *ever* comes up again.
    8. Cancellation comes in from Tariq.

    You most likely checked the speed between points in time 3 and 4. You are most welcome to a shell account on one of our test servers for as long as you want it to verify that there is no speed issue, intermittent or otherwise.

    Hope this clears it up.

    Paul
    Jeez the cheek, I give up good luck in fooling others around here.

    Fine Print "Speeds were not normal 45mins prior to the cancellation email" - give or take it is upto you now as you know the exact timing as to when you fixed it.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  19. #94
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    To me it seems to be the morale is, don't promise what you can't deliver. The only problem I see is rusko giving dates, etc. and not meeting them, and using their inexperience with the product as an excuse. If you're unsure if you can deliver the product don't promise it on time. If you can't deliver a product don't sell it, simple as that. The testing, etc. should be done on your time, not on the clients time. I definately understand how things work, slowdowns you can't control, etc. but inexperience with a vendor/product should NEVER be an excuse.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
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  20. #95
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    Paul, hope you feel better. I'm glad we do not host any game servers...seems like more hassle than it's worth.

    - John C.
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  21. #96
    Originally posted by KarlZimmer
    To me it seems to be the morale is, don't promise what you can't deliver. The only problem I see is rusko giving dates, etc. and not meeting them, and using their inexperience with the product as an excuse. If you're unsure if you can deliver the product don't promise it on time. If you can't deliver a product don't sell it, simple as that. The testing, etc. should be done on your time, not on the clients time. I definately understand how things work, slowdowns you can't control, etc. but inexperience with a vendor/product should NEVER be an excuse.
    Karl,

    If you read carefully what I posted, you will see that dates were *not* promised. I was asked the question: 'when do you think it will be up?', to which i replied: 'I expect it to be up on xyz, provided we dont run into further issues'. This has nothing to do with inexperience or incompetence - it has to do with putting together a custom solution. We were fabbing him heatsinks, for pete's sake!

    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

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  22. #97
    Originally posted by JohnCrowley
    Paul, hope you feel better. I'm glad we do not host any game servers...seems like more hassle than it's worth.

    - John C.
    Thank you for your concern. The tylenol seems to be kicking in, so I may be around for a bit, responding to those posts I consider worthy of response.

    Paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

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  23. #98
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    For what it is worth, since I've dealt with both parties, I hope my post is allowed and accepted.

    I've dealt with Paul before, and he is a stand up business person and has done right by me before, and has been an asset to the hosting community.

    I've also dealt with Tariq/NRG/Young Noble, and any other user handle he uses. And for the most part, he *was* a good customer, until the end. He still has an outstanding balance with us and refuses to pay it, even though he has promised and begged us at times to be turned back on and made partial payments to do so. (and yes Tariq, I too save IM logs and emails, but I am not so unprofessional to post them publicly).

    Don't take this as a "Rusko Fan Club" posting, Paul made mistakes, and has admitted to them and apologized for them.

    Tariq, perhaps if you do get your refund, you can pay your past obligations with the money?

    Since customers are welcomed to post feedback on Hosting Providers, perhaps a forum is in order for Hosting Providers to post feedback on customers.

    Thanks,
    Tom
    Last edited by TomK; 04-16-2004 at 03:39 PM.
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  24. #99
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    Paul - Good luck with getting the PayPal issue sorted out - We're looking to move most clients away from PayPal due to the way they handle issues like that. We regularly take out money, but money can still sit in there for a few days. We've never had an issue with them, but the stories can be scary.

    If you happen to find a good 1U AMD solution, let us on the boards know

    -Josh
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  25. #100
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    Ahh, i have read through this entire thread.

    An amazing thread, one of the best i have ever read.

    Ok..

    Communication...i don't see a problem here. You were told there was going to be delays. You were kept informed.

    Network speed...He admitted there was a problem which was fixed(before YOU ever noticed it) If you suffer from slow(and i really use that word losely here, as you stated it was still above 300k..) speeds and nobody else on the network does and it is fine when an admin checks, there is very little that can be done.

    Curious as to why you need speeds of over 30mbit to be happy. These are gameservers. Pings is what matter.

    Also, were you hosting a gameserver for people at UUNET? Because this seems to be the only thing you are concerned about. I fail to see how any "evidence" you provided about the "slow" network could of affected your ping times.

    The paypal attempted chargeback. This was a very bad. Why should he give you a refund now? You have cost him in parts and were the reason his paypal account was frozen. If anything you should be paying him extra money for the disruption to his business you have caused.

    Also , the ordering of the additional server at cost to them and not you is amazing. This sounds like an amazing provider.

    Modding heatsinks...wow. Amazing again.

    The sad part about this is, the provider will never feel comfortable again in offering discounts of this kind and going to the extremes he did to please you.

    Very sad :-(
      0 Not allowed!

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