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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Niagara Region, Canada
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    Angry "building My Portfolio" Scams

    Has anyone else here been burned on the several, "I'm buildling my portfolio" free offers here over the last couple of weeks?

    I tried a few of these to see if I could find a designer whose work I liked for several future paid projects. Except for one person, no one else has followed up with anything at all -- not even to say, "sorry, I'm too busy and it didn't work out."

    So, what's the scam here? I send you my ideas, with colors, domain name, text, and detailed description, and you take them to other clients as your own?

    If you are one of these people, please send me $50 immediately for development consultation fees. If you're not willing to do that, then how about an email or a PM to let me know what's going on?

    Be assured that you are building a reputation and name recognition across the broad WHT network. However, it may not be the reputation you want to carry with you over the long haul.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2003
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    Canada
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    I feel sorry for you... I knew free designing sounded a little fishy...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37
    I've got the same from a guy Logotivity. I was promised a logo. I waited 2 weeks, and when i emailed them they said i was next. Been over 1 month now and still haven't heard back... I hate these people.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    As you might know, if it's free it's probably not worth it And almost all the time causes you trouble. As the "designers" offering free designs to create a portfolio are in most of the cases kinds of 14-15 years, you can't expect them to act professionaly.

    And of course, many got scammed like you did, because they(the designers) can create a portfolio by making designs for themselves, friends etc. but are so bad at it that they don't even got the originality or any idea what to create something...

    You take it from there...
    Lorand R. Minyo
    Co-Founder @ Neveli

  5. #5
    you get what you pay for. nothing is really free, dont think you can afford cheap things, or are you that rich?

    Best,
    Eugene.
    IWDN - Really smart web developers... and me!
    More than any time in history mankind faces a crossroads.
    One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction.
    Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly.

  6. #6
    I'd be willing to make a few free things to build up my portfolio, as long as they could, in the future, promise me a 1 or 2 paid jobs. This is genuine.

    If you are interested:

    MSN: jonny@ibskinz.com
    AIM: Velocified

    P.S. Sorry to hear that aporia, sucks

  7. #7
    Yea im getting pissed off about the people who do business on this forum. Very unprofessional. I went to a site that someone posted for logos and paid on paypal for a logo with a 24-72 hour turnaround and i havent heard anything back in almost a week. Not even an email. I will be filing fraud claim to paypal.

    I have also had trouble with another person who said they would create a logo for free but it hasnt happened. I am just very frusterated cause i have wasted my time on certain designers that arent going to get the job done as discussed and dont communicate with their customers. I wish one of the designers would come through for me.

  8. #8
    Dude when someone's says "Free" it doesn't always mean a good thing, so don't sit here and complain as you get what you paid for which in this case is nothing. Instead of wasting your time why not hit up photoshop and start learning some basics

  9. #9
    "There is no such things as free lunch."

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Niagara Region, Canada
    Posts
    76

    Angry Same Boat for Some "Special" Prices

    Originally posted by brickholius
    Yea im getting pissed off about the people who do business on this forum. Very unprofessional. I went to a site that someone posted for logos and paid on paypal for a logo with a 24-72 hour turnaround and i havent heard anything back in almost a week. Not even an email. I will be filing fraud claim to paypal. . .
    I"m glad you mentioned this. It's not only the "free" offers that are the problem in this regard. As you point out, some of the "special" pricing offers for WHT members are in the same boat ~~> great offer, no follow-through. What's up with that?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,085
    A lot of designers on here are just as unresponsive about PAID work as well.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  12. #12
    I personally hate people that complain about designers that dont come through with "free" work. If you didnt notice, its free work! So you should be happy designers even consider taking time to create a logo for you. I believe there are more jerks out there that rip off designers "free" work. Whether its reselling the work or taking the ideas. Thats the risk of free work, especially dealing with it over the internet. Us designers understand the risks, and so should the clients.

    And dont even complain about giving them so called "ideas" because thats your own fault. If a designer can come up with something for, "I want a basic three colored logo, circle shaped, and related to hosting", then more power to them. If you give more detail then that, then I dont know what you are expecting to get for free. Mine as well learn to make it yourself. I for one don't want to be portrayed as a guy that is going to rip you off by asking to make you a free logo.

    Sure, I have done a couple free logos, nothing spectacular, and only if I had free time. And yes they were for my portfolio, and everything worked out. A couple of times I did say I would try to see if I could come up with something for a couple of people, and did not come through. I'm sorry to those I forgot, or didnt come through for, but get over it, I owe you nothing.

    The problem with those seeking free logos/work, is they have too high of standards in mind that no matter what they are not pleased. If you really want a dedicated, top quality designer, then go find one, but make sure you have some money to spend.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    Naperville, IL
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    10

    Re: "building My Portfolio" Scams

    Originally posted by aporia
    Has anyone else here been burned on the several, "I'm buildling my portfolio" free offers here over the last couple of weeks?

    I tried a few of these to see if I could find a designer whose work I liked for several future paid projects. Except for one person, no one else has followed up with anything at all -- not even to say, "sorry, I'm too busy and it didn't work out."

    So, what's the scam here? I send you my ideas, with colors, domain name, text, and detailed description, and you take them to other clients as your own?

    If you are one of these people, please send me $50 immediately for development consultation fees. If you're not willing to do that, then how about an email or a PM to let me know what's going on?

    Be assured that you are building a reputation and name recognition across the broad WHT network. However, it may not be the reputation you want to carry with you over the long haul.
    First of all people who work for free do it in their FREE TIME, so if it's a problem, then you should pay someone else to do things for you, secondly offers of building up a portofolio are not permanent, first come - first serve. After that there are abusers who will resell your free work and gain a profit of it I don't say everyone is, but INTERNET makes it harder Imagine receiving 100 emails requesting 5 banners for each for example, how much would it take u to do 500 banners uh? even 100.... And all of that time FOR FREE?>I don't think so...
    There is no scam, I would say that anything that is free has a potential of being resold without authors persmission < that's the scam, in other words -> what guarantuees do we have that the "client" (you in this case) won't resell or redistribute our work without permission, uh? Yeah, you are right -> absolutely NOTHING! When I see you saying something like the last part of the message, i just can't imagine how much time did it take u to think about what you say-> someone paying you 50$ to design something free for you, and give you "full rights" to the job done ? Excuse me but that's totally nonsense. I was building up a portofolio wuitelong time ago .. about a month or so, and got swamped with people requesting 5 banners (different sizes, not telling anything on how they want it nor submitting a vector format logo to insert in the banner -> how smart is that?). So don't say that freelancers are scammers, because free work is costing us our time and efforts and sometimes it's misused by scammers who sell it after it's done.
    And about reputation, excuse me, but you want to trash someone's reputation just because he said politely - "Sorry, I don't have time to work for free anymore" <- How lame is that, the person tells you politely that the offer isn't available anymore and you are willing to trash his reputation? That's ridicolous..

    Anyways I wasn't even contacted by you and didn't see what you are asking from designers so I can't judge too well her, so if you are looking for people I might be interested if there is something related to banner/buttons/icons design BUT consider my post above before you start even talking about scams
    Kirill Smirnov
    KWL™

  14. #14
    What many of you are forgetting is that whether a banner or logo is for free or $50 or $500, PLEASE DONT FORGET TO TREAT YOUR CLIENTS WITH RESPECT. Respect is communicating with your clients on the time of the project and what they want. Its also NOT making claims that you cant complete. What do you expect when you make great offers for your service. I never complained about the quality of work just that people make empty promises and dont follow through. I would understand if a designer emailed and said hey im busy..can you wait or im busy i cant do this...but to not answer emails is just bad business. COMMUNCIATION for many is just as important as the final product.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Naperville, IL
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    10
    Originally posted by brickholius
    What many of you are forgetting is that whether a banner or logo is for free or $50 or $500, PLEASE DONT FORGET TO TREAT YOUR CLIENTS WITH RESPECT. Respect is communicating with your clients on the time of the project and what they want. Its also NOT making claims that you cant complete. What do you expect when you make great offers for your service. I never complained about the quality of work just that people make empty promises and dont follow through. I would understand if a designer emailed and said hey im busy..can you wait or im busy i cant do this...but to not answer emails is just bad business. COMMUNCIATION for many is just as important as the final product.
    agreed, I prefer to talk to the person via IM and discuss details, submit drafts as we go along, but when the client says about 20 times "I don't like it", or "That's not what I am looking for" after 20 tries, then I guess he should pick another designer. And when you say respect... how lame is a person emailing you about a banner and doesn't even tell you what the url of his site is and when you reply you don't get even a word from him So don't blame all freelance designers by saying that everyone of them is same, that's stereotype that you imagine <- and I believe that people who make those stereotypes have issues. You can't prejudge, afterall you didn't sign a contract or anything which says that YOU EXACTLY will get something that you asked for, nor that the FREELANCER OWNS YOU SOMETHING.
    However I agree that persons should at least be polite and reply that they can't take anymore orders or that they won't be able to take yours.
    Kirill Smirnov
    KWL™

  16. #16
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    Mar 2004
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    68
    Hmm I don't do scams....I am more than willing to do projects for free...but it seems like I get better responses when I say it costs something....oh well their lost. Like right now I'm willing to make banners, flash intros, or anything for free...

    But my problem is most of the clients I get aren't specific with what they want or never respond back and stuff...
    Last edited by DKN; 04-15-2004 at 10:39 PM.

  17. #17
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    Dec 2003
    Location
    Niagara Region, Canada
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    *

    Looks like I hit a nerve on both sides of the client-designer relationship! Great issues arising here. Let's find some resolution.

    Kewl, I appreciate your perspective on stupid client expectations. I could change my post around and say very similar things for clients as I did for designers making offers they can't or won't honor. I'm sure all the designers here could add a whole lot more horror stories down that road. The issue of professional courtesy on both sides of this divide is doing what you say you are going to do -- no matter what fee, barter, or offer is involved.

    My frustration as a potential client has been with designers who have made offers, accepted new clients, requested details, then disappeared from the scene without a word. No notice, no contact, no service provided. I am not claiming that all designers who make offers at WHT are like this. Of course, they are not. There are, no doubt, many who are both excellent and professional. Heh. I hope eventually we find each other.

  18. #18
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    Sep 2003
    Location
    Naperville, IL
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    Originally posted by aporia
    Looks like I hit a nerve on both sides of the client-designer relationship! Great issues arising here. Let's find some resolution.

    Kewl, I appreciate your perspective on stupid client expectations. I could change my post around and say very similar things for clients as I did for designers making offers they can't or won't honor. I'm sure all the designers here could add a whole lot more horror stories down that road. The issue of professional courtesy on both sides of this divide is doing what you say you are going to do -- no matter what fee, barter, or offer is involved.

    My frustration as a potential client has been with designers who have made offers, accepted new clients, requested details, then disappeared from the scene without a word. No notice, no contact, no service provided. I am not claiming that all designers who make offers at WHT are like this. Of course, they are not. There are, no doubt, many who are both excellent and professional. Heh. I hope eventually we find each other.
    Yes that's quite an issue here, no matter what happens there will always be someone that will do something wrong, that's the human nature. And I highly doubt that everyone cares about what happens after deals are done, I mean the clients (not all) don't really care about what happens to the designer after deal is done, afterall if client gets the work done (for free work it's more likely "good bye and thanks or I will have something else that you could work on" types of attitudes). And beleive me if a client drops the deal it's much more difficult to get along with, you spend your time on doing something, and then nothing from client and noone even cares about what you have done, but when a designer drops the deal, the client doesn't really loose anything (since he is not working for free). I know sounds kinda stupid, but oh well that's a topic which we could discuss over and over again... but there won't be a solution to it. We are humans afterall, we have our problems, everyone isn't the same. So my point is that there is always a risk in deals, no matter what, when, with who. And taking risk for free is much more easy than there is an opportunity to loose/earn something (would it be money/time/anything else).

    I did work for last 2 months with different clients (most likely profit organizations, i did my work as promised, never charged a penny) told them that they could donate me via paypal if they wish to, but guess what.... none of them did <- that just shows you what i just said above, only the deal matters, if you don't get/do something you are someone who will be disliked by the second half, so when you talk about free.... free is free - noone has guarantuees, noone signs contracts, noone wants to be obligated to do something.

    I honestly wish you good luck, as for me, I have some really big family problems...( won't go ) and sometimes I just don't want to do anything at all..... sorry for long post, maybe it's annoying to read what I have to say, but at least I am being honest and express my concerns

    good luck man !
    Kirill Smirnov
    KWL™

  19. #19
    Originally posted by kwl
    but when the client says about 20 times "I don't like it", or "That's not what I am looking for" after 20 tries,
    Totally agree, and I am not seeing why people are complaining, what do you expect out of free services, if you want quality and quick service, you better pay for it. I'm sorry but really where have you been all your life people? Free=No Work done or Crap

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    RO
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    Hmm...I fear that WHT is slowly turning into a bad place, for designers and clients as well.

    A good solution to this problem would be to ban free offers, just like in the hosting offers forum. This would benefit webmasters as well as designers. Webmasters, because they would get more commitment (after all, it`s a paid job) and for designers, because you will still get work and on top of that, paid, but without being burried by it (and getting nothing in return)

    I`d like to know what the WHT staff thinks about this.

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by matrics
    Hmm...I fear that WHT is slowly turning into a bad place, for designers and clients as well.

    A good solution to this problem would be to ban free offers, just like in the hosting offers forum. This would benefit webmasters as well as designers. Webmasters, because they would get more commitment (after all, it`s a paid job) and for designers, because you will still get work and on top of that, paid, but without being burried by it (and getting nothing in return)

    I`d like to know what the WHT staff thinks about this.
    Bad idea, take someone serious and treat him like he is worth none isn't professional. Someone not that good doing some free designs today could easily turn into a HQ designer in less than 3 months, all you need to do is keep practicing the design techniques and client communication, and if you have ideas it's a definite +. And please come on don't start going in wrong direction, it a *VERY* high traffic board, there are experienced users, newbs, scammers, stealers and so on. Choosing a permanent solution to a temporary problem is way too unreasonable Why just not to make something like tracking deals on WHT - when the user drop from his thread or doesn't reply it should get in his profile like a design deal failed or something, that way it will be much more evident whom to pick for deals and such
    Kirill Smirnov
    KWL™

  22. #22
    Its insane some of you people expect something of a free designer. Even more some of you people expect something from a 1-250$ designer, come on what are we talking about, a professional starts his price for from at least 1000$....you want a professional you pay for a professional and else stop crying.

    -Gx
    I'm afraid that if you look at a thing long enough, it loses all of its meaning.
    Andy Warhol

  23. #23
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    Aug 2003
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    EU
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    1,670
    As Cervantes once said, "If it's cheap(or free), it's probably not worth it."

    And is you probably noticed so far, the standards of free designs are pretty low. So why not get oriented towards something paid? Why dont get some signed contracts?

    That's called playing on the safe side
    Lorand R. Minyo
    Co-Founder @ Neveli

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37
    The people who were offering these free services wanted the other to think that they are good. If i would ever start doing something like this i would probably do some free work so the people will see what i can do and the quality. A real business man knows that there is no such thing as a BIG or small client. All of them should be treated with the same respect.

  25. #25
    Originally posted by aporia
    My frustration as a potential client has been with designers who have made offers, accepted new clients, requested details, then disappeared from the scene without a word. No notice, no contact, no service provided.


    thats funny, didnt you post in my thread saying that your going to email me the next day?

    *shrug*
    IWDN - Really smart web developers... and me!
    More than any time in history mankind faces a crossroads.
    One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction.
    Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly.

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