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Thread: WHM resellers?

  1. #1
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    WHM resellers?

    Hello,

    i was wondering what permissions do reseller should get that don't abuse or over use their permissions?

    i've seen people that doesn't allow account termination to avoid apache crashes incase the reseller didn't let the process finish, but this might be also an issue if he doesn't let creation finish


    please share your ideas


    also how to limit exact number of accounts and dis space including bandwidth for a reseller so he can divide those resources to his customers?


    Thanks.
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
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  2. #2
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    We don't allow termination or modifying a username both cause major problems at the moment.
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  3. #3
    Termination of accounts have been working A-OK since several previous stable releases. We only disable the modify features from WHM.
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  4. #4
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    Below is what we check off on reseller accounts.


    Allow Creation of Packages with Unlimited Features (ie. unlimited pop accounts)
    Allow Package Edits (new)
    Account Creation
    Account Suspension
    Account Termination
    Account Upgrades
    Add Domains
    Add/Remove Packages
    Allow creation of packages with Addon Domains
    Allow creation of packages with Parked Domains
    Bandwidth Limiting Modification (Warning: This will allow circumvention of account package limits if you are not using resource limits)
    Delete Domains
    Disallow creation of accounts with packages that are not global or not owned by this user
    Edit DNS Entries
    Edit MX Entries
    Enabling/Disabling FrontPage Extensions
    Enabling/Disabling SubDomains
    List Accounts
    Mail Trouble Shooter
    Never allow creation of accounts with shell access
    News Modification
    Park Domain
    Password Modification
    Quota Modification (Warning: This will allow circumvention of account package limits if you are not using resource limits)
    Resync Ftp Passwords
    View Account Bandwidth Usage
    View Account Statistics
    View Server Status

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by MN-Robert
    We don't allow termination or modifying a username both cause major problems at the moment.
    Yep, good idea.

    HTTPme never allowed the domain termination, but did allow the "Modify an Account" feature. Although I was soooooo close to disallowing that too.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  6. #6
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    Great question and responses here.

    If domain termination is disallowed for the reseller, what kind of service load does this add to the help desk staff?

  7. #7
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    We do not allow domain termination either. It does add a ticket or two to the helpdesk per week, but it only takes a minute to resolve and close.

    Well worth the headache compared to fixing the issues it can, and has, caused.
    Rob
    Founder and former owner of SRLnet. Sold in 2006

  8. #8
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    We allow termination and always did. If we didn't, there would be a lot of tickets.

    Usually, these days, when Apache fails, it's due to an addon or parked domain being added.

  9. #9
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    yeah removing an account is almost like an end user adding or removing sub/addon domain.

    thanks for sharing.
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
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  10. #10
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    If cPanel just added a small JS progress meter, none of this would be happening.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by DanX
    If cPanel just added a small JS progress meter, none of this would be happening.
    Have you suggested this to them?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.cpanelfaq.com/
    cPanel 9.2 Pending Release
    cPanel is very close to releasing version 9.2 of it's webhosting control panel, and the cPanel development team is asking that any last minute critical bugs be reported to http://bugzilla.cpanel.net/show_bug.cgi?i

    cPanel 9.2 is the release which focused on the security audit.
    [2004-04-11 14:32]
    go ahead and suggest
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  13. #13
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    Actually a queue system would be better, the bug still exists in the current stable (93 I think)
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  14. #14
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    Seems to me CPanel should try and do an internal audit of their product, heh. There are several bugs that seem to have been lingering around for quite some time, yet they keep adding more features... annoying.
    Matt Walters
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  15. #15
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    We disabled the termination feature for about 6 months at one point but we enabled it on all accounts and in the last year have not had any problems with it. We simply warn all resellers to allow time on the creation and termination fo accounts to allow it to fully finish.

    There are not too many resellers wanting to crash their own servers so they take extra care.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by aporia
    Great question and responses here.

    If domain termination is disallowed for the reseller, what kind of service load does this add to the help desk staff?
    Depends on the size of your client base. From memory, it probably added 10 tickets a day, for domain deletions, on the HTTPme helpdesk. That was for around 28 servers.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Depends on the size of your client base. From memory, it probably added 10 tickets a day, for domain deletions, on the HTTPme helpdesk. That was for around 28 servers.
    Yep that is why we enabled it again we were getting about 5 to 10 a day, plus it really seemed to make some resellers mad not having it. so In the end it turned out to be less hassle to let them have it with a warning.

  18. #18
    If there's even a 5% chance of having the terminate "feature" crash the server, then I'd rather pay an extra few bucks per month so they can hire more support just for handling these request.....


    From the customer's perspective, I want a stable and reliable server. If you know a cpanel feature is buggy then please turn it off. If this results in more costs for me, then I would rather pay it.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by mrzippy
    If there's even a 5% chance of having the terminate "feature" crash the server, then I'd rather pay an extra few bucks per month so they can hire more support just for handling these request.....


    From the customer's perspective, I want a stable and reliable server. If you know a cpanel feature is buggy then please turn it off. If this results in more costs for me, then I would rather pay it.
    If you turned off every feature that had a 5% chance of crashing the servers then you would not allow resellers a WHM.
    We have the feature enabled and across 28 reseller servers maintain a 99.95% or better uptime average, so it has not impacted our uptime at all.

  20. #20
    Originally posted by Techark
    We have the feature enabled and across 28 reseller servers maintain a 99.95% or better uptime average, so it has not impacted our uptime at all.
    I visited your website but was unable to find where you publish your uptime records. Can you show me where you keep your stats so I can verify this claim? Seriously. If you have a 99.95% uptime averaged accross 28 reseller servers then I would like to start using you for some of my accounts. But first I want to see the proof.

    Thanks!

  21. #21
    Originally posted by mrzippy
    I visited your website but was unable to find where you publish your uptime records.
    I found them! Very impressive. You're on my list...

  22. #22
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    Turning off Terminate an Account makes no sense? It's just the reverse of Create an Account in the sense that both require changes to Server files and an Apache restart. As the progress of either is shown in the WHM, most Resellers have the sense to watch and wait, until finished.

    One area though, that we have dis-allowed, to save a lot of time & frustration, is to not allow DNS modifications for Resellers. That, more than anything, used to cause us headaches. Not being quite sure about how to change/edit DNS settings, some Resellers would 'experiment' to see what happened. Then, of course, when the account they were experimenting with no longer resolved, the Support tickets would increase. There has been the odd time where I've even been known, to forget about the "dot" which needs to be at the end of most DNS entries.
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  23. #23
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    Our resellers has access to termination and so far no problems at all.
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by Website Rob
    Turning off Terminate an Account makes no sense? It's just the reverse of Create an Account in the sense that both require changes to Server files and an Apache restart. As the progress of either is shown in the WHM, most Resellers have the sense to watch and wait, until finished.

    One area though, that we have dis-allowed, to save a lot of time & frustration, is to not allow DNS modifications for Resellers. That, more than anything, used to cause us headaches. Not being quite sure about how to change/edit DNS settings, some Resellers would 'experiment' to see what happened. Then, of course, when the account they were experimenting with no longer resolved, the Support tickets would increase. There has been the odd time where I've even been known, to forget about the "dot" which needs to be at the end of most DNS entries.
    We enable that by default on reseller accounts but if a reseller starts mucking up his DNS zones then we will take it away from him. I think a lot of this depends on your customer base also, if your target market is younger less experienced resellers etc, then some of the features need to be disabled. They can be dangerous in the hands of a newbie that wants to play. More experienced resellers tend to not want to mess things up and ask before they leap.

  25. #25
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    "There are no Reseller functions that are right, there are just the best Reseller functions that are right for you"
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    "There are no Reseller functions that are right, there are just the best Reseller functions that are right for you"

  27. #27
    We allow account termination without any problem so far.

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by Techark
    ...plus it really seemed to make some resellers mad not having it. so In the end it turned out to be less hassle to let them have it with a warning.
    As a reseller, when I first moved to a host that did not have this feature turned on I was kind of annoyed, I thought there was something funny going on as my previous host had it enabled. Once I learned about the cPanel bug though, I would rather raise a ticket than risk crashing the server I'm on.

  29. #29
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    Show me the bugs before calling the exterminator!

    It's definitely good for resellers to know up front that there are bugs in the software that can cause serious issues if not carefully monitored. Finding out later and then trying to place blame in one direction or another is totally counter-productive for any continuing relationship between host and reseller.

  30. #30
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    i'll setup no termination then, couple of mins waiting for termination better than crashing the server and wait for hrs to bring it back.

    hopefully resellers would understand
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
    Kuwait's First Webhosting and Domain Registration provider - an ICANN Accredited Registrar

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  31. #31
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    i'll setup no termination then, couple of mins waiting for termination better than crashing the server and wait for hrs to bring it back.

    hopefully resellers would understand.
    Informing resellers why you're restricting access could go a long way in understanding both in present and future client-host relations.

  32. #32
    Knowing why is good. I would appreciate that from a host. However, I do like the ability to handle the deletion of my accounts myself. This is speaking as a customer who has a reseller plan, not as a server administrator.

  33. #33
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    I'd like to know what this 'bug' is that some have referred to?

    After all, Creation / Deletion / Suspending / Unsuspending an account, all are basically the same -- Server files are changed and Apache restart required. I would think this applies to any Control Panel being used.

    How just 'Deletion or Termination' can have a bug or be a problem, but not the other three, is something I cannot see. Any thoughts?
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by aporia
    Informing resellers why you're restricting access could go a long way in understanding both in present and future client-host relations.
    Exactly, open and honest communication is the way to go.

    After I thought about this for a bit, since we've been with our current host, must be about 9 months now, I've only had to terminate one account, and that was because my client was changing domain names, so I had to create a new account for them and delete the old one.

    One ticket in 9 months for termination isn't really a problem.

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by Website Rob
    I'd like to know what this 'bug' is that some have referred to?

    After all, Creation / Deletion / Suspending / Unsuspending an account, all are basically the same -- Server files are changed and Apache restart required. I would think this applies to any Control Panel being used.

    How just 'Deletion or Termination' can have a bug or be a problem, but not the other three, is something I cannot see. Any thoughts?
    maybe creating the reseller waits to make sure its created.

    but termination reseller just click delete and *MIGHT* close IE window before finishing?
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  36. #36
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    Doesn't work that way with WHM as it uses frames.

    Anyone have actual experience with any 'bug' in the area of account Deletion?
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  37. #37
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    It doesn't always get the job done and sometimes you have to manually delete stuff and clear out entries. I suspect this is due to resellers not leaving the window open before the process finishes.
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  38. #38
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    Ok, we're starting to get closer now.

    One must remember that any Control Panel is just that, a Control Panel which helps with Administrative tasks. I know with WHM there are few things left over but it has gotten better in removing what is needed and it should not be a surprize, to have to go in and manually remove some leftovers.

    I think we're also dealing with a 'myth' here. Starting a process in a Browser window and then closing that window, does not terminate the process -- in WHM anyway. I would presume, this is also the case with most Control Panels.
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  39. #39
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    The bug has been reported to NIck before and it does exist.
    If during the account termination the window is closed at just the right time the httpd.conf file gets wiped out and of course Apache crashes.

    Now I have only seen this happen 4 times in the last 3 years.

    I have tried to duplicate the error many many times on a test server but have been unable to catch it at just at the right time.
    About 2 years ago when it first happend to me Nick spent a good amount of time on my server trying to figure out why it happened but I do not think any thing was ever settled.

    So take that as my expereince with the bug and if you do a search on the foums at cpanel.net you will see there has been some discussion about it on and off over the years.
    I think the problem is that the bug is so random and timing has to be just right that no one can really pin point it for sure. I also think Nick put some code changes in place about a yaer or so ago to try and make sure it does not happen. However it did happen to one of our servers about a month ago, but since we have dealt with it before we now know how to recover from it pretty fast, and since it happens so rarely it is not that big of deal.

  40. #40
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    Ok, now we seem to have hit the mark -- for one bug anyway.

    Wasn't aware of this particular bug and from the sounds of it (4 times in 3 years) doesn't sound like I would worry about it either. At best, it would only mess with the httpd.conf file and any SysAdmin worth their salt, would have a backup from at least the previous day anyway.
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