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04-09-2004, 03:34 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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2 front end servers and 1 backend
Hi,
I have 1 dedicated server.
What is the 'usual' configuration a hosting company does when setting up a 2 front end and 1 backend web server?
Say 1 dedicated server costs $100, now I would be getting 3 servers...what other costs are involved and what are the usual options I should expect from a hoster?~Salman
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04-10-2004, 08:17 AM #2Junior Guru Wannabe
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does anyone have any ideas?
~Salman
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04-10-2004, 08:29 AM #3Web Hosting Guru
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no special requirement, I think, what you have to do is to order 3 servers, ask ISP to connect them internally, in general, they won't charge you for traffic transferring among those 3 servers.
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04-10-2004, 08:38 AM #4Web Hosting Master
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Well, it would really depend on what the web hoster is offerring.
If they allow you to create a private network where the only the two front end servers are exposed to the web and the backend are connecte to the front through a switch behind the network then it would be something to consider. The cost would include the three servers and the cost of the switch set up.
Some others just sell you three servers which are exposed to the web and you do your own configuration to link one from the other. This is when traffic mov between the three machines would be counted towards your bandwidth allocation.
Different web host have different options so you really need to check with them directly.http://www.batchimage.com - Offering Batch Image Processing and TIFF/PDF Software Solutions
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04-10-2004, 08:53 AM #5Web Hosting Master
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A lot of 'unmanaged' places won't do this, or so it seems.
I know ServerMatrix does; you just buy as many boxes as you want, and they'll rent you a switch. ($20/month maybe?) Traffic through that switch (between your servers).
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04-10-2004, 04:55 PM #6Junior Guru Wannabe
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So what does the switch do? I'm guessing it just randomly delegates the visitors to Server#1 and Server#2?
And fanciers switches (loadbalancer?) will keep the user stuck to the server they initially started to visit the site with?
thanks for the insights.~Salman
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04-10-2004, 04:59 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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Actually if you want to do load balancing you can do that with your DNS records (it will do a dum 50/50 split or whatever you set it up to) More advanced software can send them to the server with the least load but that can take a bit of time (and $) to setup.
<edit>
As a note doing load balancing with the DNS tends to be called round robbin . It will keep the user with the server their request was initial routed to (since most OSs & browers cache DNS information for awhile)
</edit>
The switch is actually a device used to switch ethernet frames )based on MAC address) between the three servers (in this situation). The idea is that you hook the three servers into the switch and then the backend servers traffic to the other two servers go through that switch and not over the providers switch. A switch does not do any load balancing.
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04-10-2004, 05:02 PM #8Junior Guru Wannabe
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i see, so the switch saves my bandwidth since its internal....gotcha.
Just looking at these control panels, for $200 bucks i can save the headache of having to terminal server in a box....i always though these tools where for hosting companies and $$$.~Salman
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04-10-2004, 05:03 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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Think of the switch as a network hub (not exactly the same but that is the general idea). What you do is have 2 sets of network cards on each server, one to the provider's switch or router which goes to the internet and the other within your private switch which only connects your three machine. Data transferred are faster since it is internal and also there is less of the security issue when transferring sensitive information to and from the machines. Your servers would have two sets of IP addresses, one for the external and one internal.
http://www.batchimage.com - Offering Batch Image Processing and TIFF/PDF Software Solutions
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04-10-2004, 05:07 PM #10Web Hosting Master
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slight digression...
Originally posted by eddy2099
. What you do is have 2 sets of network cards on each server, one to the provider's switch or router which goes to the internet and the other within your private switch which only connects your three machine. [/B]
The only reason you would do this is if your provider isnt willing to add network cards (or charges to much)...
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04-10-2004, 07:30 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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Control panel won't save you from the SSH. You still need to secure your servers and most things need to be done at the SHELL. YOU"RE WRONG IF YOU THINK A $200 Hosting control panel would get you away from the shell.
You're probably better off leasing 3 servers, a quarter rack, and a switch and have it setup that way. For fancier setup, you could have Load Balancers that would balance your traffic and have redundancy. We just setup this for one of our client and it's not a budget solution at all if you wanted to know...http://Ethr.net jay@ethr.net
West Coast AT&T / Level3 / Savvis Bandwidth, Colocation, Dedicated Server, Managed IP Service, Hardware Load Balancing Service, Transport Service, 365 Main St, SFO / 200 Paul Ave, SFO / PAIX, PAO / Market Post Tower, 55 S. Market, SJC / 11 Great Oaks, Equinix, SJC
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04-10-2004, 09:46 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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Control Panel just helps you perform the day to day administration such as adding or removing accounts. The main benefit is more for the end-users and it mean that they do not have to bug you each time they need to set up an email account or check how much bandwidth they use.
Control Panel does not secure or optimize your server at all. No control panel gives you firewall out of the box or intrusion alerts. You need to do that yourself.
In fact one control panel that I know would actually make you go into shell more times than without it, just to fix its own problems.http://www.batchimage.com - Offering Batch Image Processing and TIFF/PDF Software Solutions
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04-11-2004, 10:42 AM #13Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by demonmoo
Actually if you want to do load balancing you can do that with your DNS records (it will do a dum 50/50 split or whatever you set it up to) More advanced software can send them to the server with the least load but that can take a bit of time (and $) to setup.
<edit>
As a note doing load balancing with the DNS tends to be called round robbin . It will keep the user with the server their request was initial routed to (since most OSs & browers cache DNS information for awhile)
</edit>
paul* Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
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04-11-2004, 10:44 AM #14Web Hosting Master
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see http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...postid=2009442
for a nearly identical discussion with a bunch of comments from me.
paul* Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
* Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us
dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters
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04-11-2004, 10:46 AM #15Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Salman_CSF
i see, so the switch saves my bandwidth since its internal....gotcha.
paul* Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
* Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us
dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters
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04-11-2004, 12:44 PM #16Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally posted by rusko
use round robin and have your clients thank you when their visitors are unable to use their e-commerce session to add items to the cart/check out or stay logged into a forum. noone except hobbyists has been using this for years. you need a solution that maintains session affinity. both software (ie lvs) and hardware (ie foundry, f5) will do this for you.
paul~Salman
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04-11-2004, 08:39 PM #17Junior Guru
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Re: slight digression...
Originally posted by demonmoo
Alternatively you can hook your switch to the providers switch and simply have each network card configured for 2 ip address (one of which is part of an internal network such as 10.*.*.*)
The only reason you would do this is if your provider isnt willing to add network cards (or charges to much)...
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04-12-2004, 09:23 AM #18Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by rusko
use round robin and have your clients thank you when their visitors are unable to use their e-commerce session to add items to the cart/check out or stay logged into a forum. noone except hobbyists has been using this for years. you need a solution that maintains session affinity. both software (ie lvs) and hardware (ie foundry, f5) will do this for you.
paul
Any limit on how many ip addresses you can bind to one network card?
this is incorrect. unless all of your machines are vlan'ed together, the provider will meter your usage on the switch port your box is attached to. where the frames go from there matters not. vlans or crossover cables between the secondary interfaces are the solution in this case.
paul