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  1. #1
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    You might not agree with the war..

    Alot of you do not agree with the war as well as I do not, but even though I do not like it I have pride within the soldiers. A unit came home today (wonderfull no clouds or anything). Probabley over 1000 people showed up to show support of the troops.

    I am a proud American, and I will always will be. America is not perfect, but what country is? Their are days I question what America has done and will do, and their are days I am proud to say I am a American.

    When the troops where driving by (a gathering) I had this feeling that I can not describe. This feeling took over my whole body, and the people around me. We saw Troops with their familys, their girl friends/ Boy friends. Today is one of thoughs day's that I can easly say I am a Proud American.

    God Bless America!
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  2. #2
    Glad you had that feeling. Do all Americans spell that bad lol
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  3. #3
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    LOL... no.

    i understand that proud feeling tho... there are times when its overwelming.
    g.
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  4. #4
    I don't agree witht he war, but I support the troops
    Money is the root of all evil. So if you don't want to go crazy, give it all to me
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  5. #5
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    Yes I have bad writing some times, but not always. When I do have bad hand writing it is, because I got off of work. I work very strange hours within the day, and when I get home I just do not care about how I spell at times. I hope this clears that up.
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  6. #6
    Don't worry about the spelling. Yes, it is very cool to support the troops coming home, as well as those going away.
    Good to see others feel the same, and are not overly concerened with the spelling, but rather the message.
    Glenn
    Don't you walk thru my words
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  7. #7
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    I have the same feelings Torith. Though I might question policy and intentions in the end the troop have my full respect and support. They risk their lives for our country and they go into Iraq with the best intentions, even if some in power might have additional motives.
    Alvin
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  8. #8
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    I feel the same way. Having family who has served during WWII, Korean, and Vietnam, one thing I will always do, regardless if I support the war or not, is to never alienate the troops. It's because of them we have been able to keep a relatively free society (complete freedom does not and will not exist anywhere in the world).

    I always like it when the kid gets to meet 'daddy' for the first time...the look on both faces..such emotion. Incredible.

    Regards,
    Waylon
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  9. #9
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    I fail to see why I should have pride in troops, they are just doing a job like anyone else, their choice.
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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by bagpuss
    I fail to see why I should have pride in troops, they are just doing a job like anyone else, their choice.
    It's easy to call that just a job until you've actually done it.
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  11. #11
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    Okay let's keep this on track, I certainly have pride in my countrymen and women who participated in this war. It sure wouldn't have been easy for them, or the families watching all the gruesome footage on TV.
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  12. #12
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    Agree, i didn't and still don't agree with this war, but it must have been a hard time for the troops cause they just follow the orders..
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by bagpuss
    I fail to see why I should have pride in troops, they are just doing a job like anyone else, their choice.
    Going into a war zone like Iraq, is far beyond "doing a job like anyone else". But you got the first part right with "I fail to see . . . "
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  14. #14
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    Any job where you can get killed fighting for a cause whether you agree with it or not should be commended.
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Going into a war zone like Iraq, is far beyond "doing a job like anyone else". But you got the first part right with "I fail to see . . . "
    Why is it far beyond? Because it's dangerous? So what, these people knew the positive and negitive aspects of being in the armed forces before they joined, they knew danger was part of the job, the fact they go to places like Iraq is irrelevent, they are simply doing what they get paid for, just like anyone else, no more or less deserving of respect and the like, than anyone else.
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  16. #16
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    Well being you are from England and we are talking about US troops maybe the patriotics among us our just seeing it a bit different.
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  17. #17
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    I Agree 100% With the War and I Support the Troops.
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  18. #18
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    bagpuss bagpuss bagpuss, you change not in my absence from WHT; however as much as you were utterly opposed to the war, Britain's involvement and much about our country, to be so flippent about what British armed forces and officials are trying to achieve there seems a bit much even for you.

    So are you saying that you are not proud of, or have respect for, fellow men and women of your country who put their lives in harms way to ensure the safety of others and protect the cause of rebuilding and protecting a nation? Is your opposition to the war and our involvement not partly a reason or the main one for saying what you have in this thread?

    Nobody is asking you to go outside and wave the English or British flag but to just feel something.

    I support and feel pride in what i know will be eventually achieved, primarily for all British personnel in danger zones around the world, however i also respect those of other nationalitieswho stood up to be counted and risk injury or worse for the cause in Iraq for one. Yes there was opposition and danger but that for me makes it all the more worthy as i believe and know as much as i can that it is just and right.

    Now before someone says, oh well you supported the war and of course you would feel that way,, i say to you that i would say the same thing for the RNLI or Fire Brigade etc You don't have to go OTT but a little respect and or pride is no hardship.

    Critic,
    Last edited by Critic; 04-04-2004 at 06:46 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by bagpuss
    ...these people knew the positive and negitive aspects of being in the armed forces before they joined, they knew danger was part of the job, the fact they go to places like Iraq is irrelevent, they are simply doing what they get paid for, just like anyone else, no more or less deserving of respect and the like, than anyone else.
    I think most of them don't realize what they're getting into when they enlist. They're just kids fresh out of school, and most of them from lower classes with no other options. I feel sorry for them, they're being killed and maimed for no good reason.
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  20. #20
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    Also note the fact that it is NOT like any other job...you cannot just quit. Once you sign the papers, the moment the pen leaves the paper from your signature, you are in their control and you cannot backout unless you are discharged dishonorably. You have a term you have to serve for when you signup, so it is not like a regular job.

    Regards,
    Waylon
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Critic

    Is your opposition to the war and our involvement not partly a reason or the main one for saying what you have in this thread?
    As I have pointed out countless times, I may be opposed to the Iraq war, but not all war, so my feelings about Iraq have nothing to do with my view that the armed forces are no more or less deserving of respect than anyone else.

    Originally posted by Critic

    So are you saying that you are not proud of, or have respect for, fellow men and women of your country who put their lives in harms way to ensure the safety of others and protect the cause of rebuilding and protecting a nation?
    If people want to join the armed forces that's fine, it's their choice, all jobs have positive and negative aspects, they don't automatically deserve respect simply, because of the particular negative points, as for putting their lives in harms way to protect others, if you think that's why people join the armed forces, then you are misguided.

    Originally posted by Critic

    Nobody is asking you to go outside and wave the English or British flag but to just feel something.
    Why? Should I feel something about people that choose a career in accoutancy too?
    Last edited by bagpuss; 04-05-2004 at 03:38 AM.
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  22. #22
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    I agree with it

    its clearer to me now than ever that this is part of the war on terrorism. especially after the weekend in fallujah and another radical muslim cleric coming out in support of murder and terror. in fact if he said that in the us he would be arrested for murder - its like murder for hire. you cant tell someone to go kill someone - its the same thing. he obviously is not a man of god. he is an enemy combatant and should be treated as such. the only thing going on now - is the radicals are galvanizing american and world support for the war.

    they are revealing themselves as who over there is part of hte problems.

    I wish our troops from all the countries good luck and God be with them. I prayed for them this morning.

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  23. #23
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    Re: I agree with it

    Originally posted by sailor
    its clearer to me now than ever that this is part of the war on terrorism. especially after the weekend in fallujah and another radical muslim cleric coming out in support of murder and terror.

    the only thing going on now - is the radicals are galvanizing american and world support for the war.
    A foreign army invades the US saying they intend to "liberate" the american people. The americans mount a fierce resistance movement, killing several of the foreign soldiers. Would those americans be called terrorists or patriots?
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by bagpuss
    As I have pointed out countless times, I may be opposed to the Iraq war, but not all war, so my feelings about Iraq have nothing to do with my view that the armed forces are no more or less deserving of respect than anyone else.



    If people want to join the armed forces that's fine, it's their choice, all jobs have positive and negative aspects, they don't automatically deserve respect simply, because of the particular negative points, as for putting their lives in harms way to protect others, if you think that's why people join the armed forces, then you are misguided.



    Why? Should I feel something about people that choose a career in accoutancy too?
    I never went into the reasons why people join the armed forcesand that isn't the point, they're still there in Iraq serving a cause, a nation and rotecting others at high risk to themselves.

    All this said, your stance and mine are pretty different, i can feel pride and respect for someone else in lines of work or service and you don't or can't. A real shame that in my view but means there isn't much else to say except for...

    bagpuss, let's say you had a kid, a son or a daughter it really doesn't matter but you go to watch them perform in a school play or concert and were a credit to themselves and the school and were very good, would you not be proud of your child or would it be just a task they had to perform and that is that?
    Critic,
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  25. #25

    Re: I agree with it

    I am a proud supporter of our troops, and they are in my thoughts every day.
    Glenn
    Originally posted by sailor
    its clearer to me now than ever that this is part of the war on terrorism. especially after the weekend in fallujah and another radical muslim cleric coming out in support of murder and terror. in fact if he said that in the us he would be arrested for murder - its like murder for hire. you cant tell someone to go kill someone - its the same thing. he obviously is not a man of god. he is an enemy combatant and should be treated as such. the only thing going on now - is the radicals are galvanizing american and world support for the war.

    they are revealing themselves as who over there is part of hte problems.

    I wish our troops from all the countries good luck and God be with them. I prayed for them this morning.

    Don't you walk thru my words
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    Don't you walk thru my words
    'Cause you ain't heard me out yet
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by Critic
    I never went into the reasons why people join the armed forcesand that isn't the point, they're still there in Iraq serving a cause, a nation and rotecting others at high risk to themselves.
    Oh please, serving a cause, protecting others at high risk to themselves .

    Originally posted by Critic

    bagpuss, let's say you had a kid, a son or a daughter it really doesn't matter but you go to watch them perform in a school play or concert and were a credit to themselves and the school and were very good, would you not be proud of your child or would it be just a task they had to perform and that is that?
    Critic,
    Do I even have to bother commenting on how bad an analogy that is, my child in a school play vs a group of strangers doing what they are paid to.
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  27. #27
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    I don't agree much less support them. You may not realize it, but you are being decieved by Bush. We switched from capturing terrorist to going to war with a nation. Yes, its good that we liberated Iraq, but Americans should not have died for these people. Whatever happened to the so called "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?
    Kerry Jones
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  28. #28
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    Lets Talk get into politics, Thats just a Huge Discussion
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  29. #29
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    I support the troops not bush. I do not like what he has done and what he is probably up to. I had friends who died in the war. Bush to me is just a Tyrant, but trying to fool other people as a “Good Guy”. Since Bush has been in office we have less freedom then before he was in office.


    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    I don't agree much less support them. You may not realize it, but you are being decieved by Bush. We switched from capturing terrorist to going to war with a nation. Yes, its good that we liberated Iraq, but Americans should not have died for these people. Whatever happened to the so called "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?
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  30. #30
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    Originally posted by bagpuss
    Oh please, serving a cause, protecting others at high risk to themselves .



    Do I even have to bother commenting on how bad an analogy that is, my child in a school play vs a group of strangers doing what they are paid to.
    In regard to the first sentence, well that is a big part of what they are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan and on other operations around the globe.

    I'm not bothered how you rate the analogy but it suits my purposes well enough. What your answer suggests until you elaborate further is not whether it is a job/task or not but how it relates to you personally. A group of strangers they may be doing what they are paid to do but that in my book does i no way stop someone feeling a bit of proud of or respect for or good avour for what they are doing.

    This isn't going anywhere, to measure how close we are on any form of agreement would for me to be at the North Pole and you at the South. A WHT userbade PMQs would be i imagine quite interesting or entertaining, depending on your point of view.

    I'm sure our paths will cross in the not too distant future on some news issue or another, till then..

    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    I don't agree much less support them. You may not realize it, but you are being decieved by Bush. We switched from capturing terrorist to going to war with a nation. Yes, its good that we liberated Iraq, but Americans should not have died for these people. Whatever happened to the so called "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?
    Yes, some of the PR could've been handled a bit better, well maybe more than a bit but the final objective was "just" was it not. To remove Saddam in 2004 was right but it was wrong in the sense that it should have been done a long time ago when we first went in. If not Americans or British [it really does annoy me when people forget that we weren't there or the Aussies] then who? Some people like to sit around dithering with diplomacy that probably won't get us anywhere like with Saddam prior to the war [or delay for economic reasons which the US and Brits have been tarnished with like the Russians or the French] and others will step in. Kosovo might not have been passed through the UN and had some legality issues but was NATO wrong to act? I don't believe so. Some nation's will rise to the challange or threat or need that demands it and some won't. I am glad that Britain and others do choose to act.

    Your agreement with the war should not mean that you cannot support fellow Americans, what's done is done, they are there now and have to finish the job. How could you not support someone who is a representative of your country in an official capacity now trying to do something right and help people regardless of what happened prior to conflict?

    I know that that wasn't necessarily aimed at me but i had something to say.

    Critic,
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  31. #31
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    The troops to me do not represent the country. They do not represent me. I do not believe in killing for no reason. It may seem like were the good guys, but what were doing in Iraq is just as bad. Saddam may have killed alot of civilians, but think of all the troops that died trying to protect their homeland from the Americans? I'm not saying its a bad thing it saved future civilian lifes, but at what cost of our economy? If we have people in office such as Bush the United States will fall. I don't want to see my country come to this. We need presidents that will be remembered for what they did for our country and not what they did for other countries. They are appointed to serve us and yet Bush has yet to address unemployment and gas prices. I want a president who will fine the companies that outsource overseas and keep the mexicans in mexico. If he can do these 2 things for me that president will make me proud, but to me Bush is far from it.
    Kerry Jones
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  32. #32
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    The troops to me do not represent the country. They do not represent me. I do not believe in killing for no reason. It may seem like were the good guys, but what were doing in Iraq is just as bad. Saddam may have killed alot of civilians, but think of all the troops that died trying to protect their homeland from the Americans? I'm not saying its a bad thing it saved future civilian lifes, but at what cost of our economy? If we have people in office such as Bush the United States will fall. I don't want to see my country come to this. We need presidents that will be remembered for what they did for our country and not what they did for other countries. They are appointed to serve us and yet Bush has yet to address unemployment and gas prices. I want a president who will fine the companies that outsource overseas and keep the mexicans in mexico. If he can do these 2 things for me that president will make me proud, but to me Bush is far from it.
    Hmm...somewhere I must have missed the following words: UNITED STATES ARMY, UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, UNITED STATES NAVY, UNITED STATES MARINES.

    You make it seem like our armed forces are killing just to kill, when in fact, they are killing only those who are trying to kill them FIRST. You, as an American, are represented by them, whether you like it or not. They bear the name of The United States of America, as do YOU.

    Our economy was already messed up before the conflict in Iraq, and sure, the conflict in Iraq isn't exactly helping it, but it's not the sole reason for it's position. Bush may not be the perfect President, but at least he's doing the best he can. If you don't like him, don't vote for him. Don't whine about all of the problems without having a way to correct them.

    I am embarassed, as both an American and a human, by your words.

    Regards,
    Waylon
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  33. #33
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    I hate when some Americans cry about their government allowing outsourcing some jobs to other countries. Corporate American do this not because they love "alien" people so much they do it because it cost them less and it helps them to remain competitive in global business.

    Countries like India, Pakistan etc., buy most of their technological products from US based companies. Every computer used by every Indian outsourced human uses computer powered by Intel or AMD. Why do you think they should buy expensive products from US based companies where Average price of computer is equaling to 2-3 months salary of an person ?.

    Today business is global, Outsourcing helps US economy and US corporate to remain competitive in global business. They sell technology and military products like air planes, submarines, space technology and other things to third world countries like India at very heavy profitable prices. If you won't support countries like India and Pakistan in trade then it will be US economy which will suffer more in terms of Revenue loss because the countries where you sell your products will not be having any interest in buying your products, technology and culture because they won't be having much power, money and interest to buy western technology.

    Every computer used in India, almost all telecom infrastructure uses technology from highly developed and skilled countries like USA, so please stop crying about outsourcing jobs from USA and rather focus more on how to utilize that extra labor in your own country (yes most of the outsource job is laborious and doesn't involved any technological miracle).

    Do you know more then 90% of web sites from India and Pakistan are hosted in USA. (millions of web sites). You have to agree with me they do it because USA have very good internet infrastructure and it costs them allot less to host in USA rather then their home countries. If these poor countries can do business with highly developed and rich countries like USA why not US corporate throw some business to them in order to remain competitive in global business ?

    Remember, Large number of software engineers working in USA are from India and Pakistan. USA will save allot by exploiting this intellectual property while keeping these people in their base country.

    So, please stop crying and focus more on other kind of job creation which can utilize unemployed labor efficiently.

    just my $0.02.
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  34. #34
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    This went way off the intent of the thread, so closed.

    Cheers to all the troops who served (and continue to serve) their countries
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