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  1. #26
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    I think Saddam had to be removed, but I felt the cost to do this was not worth it. That money could of gone to so many other things.

    Now that we are in it though we must stay till a viable government exists. If we left now the place would only get worse.
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  2. #27
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  3. #28
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    Those people are animals.

  4. #29
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    Regardless of the motives behind going into Iraq, the fact is, the iraqi people are better off now. They can "grow up" and live in a civilized country or continue to run around the streets with guns and act like children. Its up to the Iraqi people.

    However, I believe the US should remain there for as long as it takes. Its the USA's responsibility. It became the USA's responsibility the moment they put their first foot on the soil of iraq. If the US leaves iraq, then Iraq will simply get worse and worse.

    Seriously though, Bush won't let the US leave Iraq. Why would he go to all that trouble, and leave the oil for someone else to claim?

  5. #30
    They need to be in my opinion, they haven't fulfilled their goal of restoring peace AND order in Iraq.
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  6. #31
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    Originally posted by 4 Degrees
    They need to be in my opinion, they haven't fulfilled their goal of restoring peace AND order in Iraq.
    Yep.

    Originally posted by bagpuss
    The bill is being paid, it's why their oil fields are being privitised against their wishes for the benefit of companies like Exxon, just the tax Exxon, Texaco etc will pay into the US treasury over the next decade or two from their Iraq operations will make the money currently being used for Iraq look like peanuts.

    I am sure Exxon and it's shareholders are very grateful to those laying down their lives for future profits and dividends, particularly those shareholders in and around the whitehouse.
    Please provide reputable evidence to backup your statement.

  7. #32
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    fallujah and similar places

    in places like this where the populus is clearly combat hostiles - our troops should be given deadly force first - questions second . also - these people in the pics should be hunted down and executed in public for being accessories to murder.

    seems like they like having a heavy hand used on them (or club across their head).

    live by the sword - die by the sword - and dont say yeah your tropps are now dieing by the sword they live by - if they let them go to run it like they want - you would see mass executions on military tribunals and the innocent co0llateral damage would go way up and the soldier deaths would go down. so I dont even want to hear it.

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  8. #33
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    Originally posted by binaris

    Please provide reputable evidence to backup your statement.
    Which bit of my statement, that the economic benefits from getting access to a conservitive estimate of $10 trillion in oil reserves in Iraq, will be greater than the cost of rebuilding Iraq or that many in the whitehouse or who advise the whitehouse hold shares in these companies?

  9. #34
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    Originally posted by ArtieFishill
    Oh as for the tired, old, and total inaccurate "Blood of Oil" rethoric. I can see how that's made gas so much cheaper now...yes, indeedy...see it everytime I go to the pump and pay $2 a gallon.
    And you've just shown you know nothing about the oil market well done, if you had the slightest idea about the econmics of oil you would know that the current price rise in the US, is down to the increased demand from the US (about 2 million extra barrels a day) who are trying to restock their oil reserve which is rather low at the moment, also that OPEC reduced their output by 3% a while ago and in fact agreed to reduce again yesterday, plus concerns over supplies from Venezula, Nigeria and Iran.

  10. #35
    well, i've been saying this even before the war started, i know the Iraqis, and i know whats going to happen next-read history, keyword "betray".
    I think we are on the steps of another Vietnam.
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  11. #36
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    we agree on something!!!

    Originally posted by Web Rhino
    well, i've been saying this even before the war started, i know the Iraqis, and i know whats going to happen next-read history, keyword "betray".
    I think we are on the steps of another Vietnam.
    we finally agree that the Iraqis are a bunch of betraying backsatabbers who are jsut as happy to slit your throat after you have them over for dinner.

    althought viet nam I dont think so - I hope our guys get intolerant and start declaring the citizen militias - spies since they are not in uniform and field executing them in public. this will bring a dose of reality to them. maybe they wont be so jubilant about murdering a bunch of unarmed civilians - what a bunch of cowards.
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  12. #37
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    victims identified

    http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/sto...88.htm&sc=1107

    most were married and had children

    sound like very talented people who wanted to make a difference who were stolen from us by a bunch of murdering scum.

    did you get the one guy who spoke 5 languages fluently.
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  13. #38
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    Everyone says we should stay so we can finish what we started - that'll never happen. We cannot change the mentality of an entire culture, we're not just talking about installing a government, for that government to work, people have to believe in the _many_ underlying ideals behind it, they dont.

    Do I believe Iraqis are bad people? No. The people who mutilated those soldier's bodies were sub-human, and I would not classify them as anyone worth mentioning as part of any notable culture, let alone let them represent an entire people's mentality.

  14. #39
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    Re: yes

    Originally posted by sailor
    <snip>
    the palestinians - they should stop all viloence - form a governement and petition the world body - I think you will see their actions rewarded. start acting like real people that can run a country instead of a pack of suicidal maniacs.

    </snip>
    Sorry for going off-topic, but Jeff why do you always miss the point. "Why is Israel ILLEGALLY occupying land which is not theres" ... It is always the Palestinians fault? It is always the Palestinians should do this and this and this... Get over it all Israel needs to do is get out of the land which belongs to Palestinians.

    Do they have an issue reading world maps? (which are even approved by the US and/or UN and Europe)

    If anyone came into my house and tried to take over, I would surely also kill them by any means necessary if it meant harm to my family...


    Back ontopic:

    The so-called coalition should never have been in Iraq, as we all know the USA has never been good at clearing up the mess it creates or peace-keeping.... I full heartedly wish them good luck.
    luck.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

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  15. #40

    Re: Re: yes

    I have a feeling my post is going to be long, but I'll give background information first:

    Just like any major war (most considerably WWI and WWII, each was fueled by either one or two major actions taken by opposing countries. Sinking of the Luisitania (sp), note from Germany to Mexico (Zimmerman note?) - - WWI, and Pearl Harbor -- WWII, 9/11 - Afghanistan/Iraq. I'm not saying these were the only reasons why America went into these wars, but they were some of the major reasons. The presidents used these events to fuel the country and gain their support to enter the war. Of course, each had other benefits which all helped America grow into a bigger economy, and a major world power. At the time of each of these wars there was some major problem in the nation. Each of the wars helped us get out of the slum. WWI - Depression, WWII - very high unemployment rates/bad economy, Afghanistan/Iraq - Recession / unemployment. Although the effects of the current war are not setting into full effect, I believe that it will come sooner or later. You can already see some results, the economy is already starting to pick up, and when Bush came into office it was already leading the path towards a huge recession. He used 9/11 as the basis to go to war, terrorists must pay, he says. As for George Bush knowing that 9/11 was going to occur, but hadn't reacted because he wanted this exact situation to happen, a conspiracy to try and get American into another war with the help of 9/11-- no proof at all. It's much easier for conspirators to point fingers at people than to admit it wasn't anyone’s fault. Oil -- yes, a reason why American went into Iran but it was never said that oil was one of the main reasons to go to war. But, we all know that they had oil on the mind. We can't say however that America went into war just for the sake of oil. Once again, no proof.

    Now, to get onto the actual topic -- should America stay in Iraq? In my opinion, yes. Now, you might say that people will die over there for a lost cause, and hope that the troops will be out of there by ( I believe one of the other users posted this month) June. If we pull out of there that early, it could mean disastrous things. As for soldiers loosing their lives -- yes, some will die. Hundreds die in America every day, it's like regular news. "5 people are killed today in a bank robbery gone awry." We grieve for about 10 minutes, if at that, and move on with our lives. I know some of us have friends and family over their, and as family of the people over there, you may not think this is the most appropriate message, but, they have signed up to fight for their country, and help the nation in time of its need. And that is why they are over there. They know the consequences, and they are ready to fight for what is right. Now, let’s say that America does bring the troops home, and we let Iraq be on its own again. This is the first picture that comes to my mind: Extremists grow and gain followers; they have major stock in weapons and firepower. The extremists grow in power, and eventually start killing off people that believe in democracy. People who speak in what they believe in are immediately shot -- just like what happened when Saddam was in power. Soon the extremists take over the country. Sounds a lot like what happened in Afghanistan when American pulled out before we should have after the whole issue with Russia. Looking at history, which is always the best source to go to, we see that when pulling out of a country too early, is never a good thing. But, when a country stays and builds up the country, or at least take a major part in its rehabilitation, the results are amazing. One example, Japan after WWII, we helped with the re-growth of Japan, and now it has one of the best economies in the world. And, suppose America does plan to pull out, and the unthinkable happens. All those American lives lost in vain. Why not stay there and make sure that the lives of the lost soldiers who helped fight for freedom are proud of what they have helped to create?

    And, the fact that Iraqis don't want us there. Where is the solid evidence? We only have our own opinions and what the media has to give us. This is also biased. News stations that are more liberal will show more of the people of Iraq who are against us being there, and very little of/none of the people who are for American intervention. You might say, "Maybe there ARE none who want us there" Yes, and if this were true you would get A LOT more reports of terrorism going on.

    Now, you have to think about the benefits of us being there. It's creating new jobs, helping the economy, and hopefully will make gas prices go down eventually. We will also put a stand on terrorism, and tell the other terrorist nations that American CAN and WILL put down anyone that we come up against. Call it American pride, but it's true.

    Whew, that was long. I doubt any of you actually read the whole thing, but hey, it kept me occupied. Most of it's opinion-based, and most of the facts are coming from the back of my brain, so they might not be 100% correct. Comments/Questions/Concerns appreciated.
    Last edited by dinc; 04-02-2004 at 07:32 PM.

  16. #41
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    $109 Billion so far:

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  17. #42
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    There are alot of things we don't know, and I neither tolerate nor appreciate anyone who does not think before they speak and make statements about things they dont understand "this war". We are there for political reasons and we are not leaving until we are done.
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  18. #43
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    "Si vis pacem, para bellum" - Flavius Vegetius

    If you want peace, prepare for war
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  19. #44
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    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

    Dwight D. Eisenhower

  20. #45
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    Re: Re: yes

    Originally posted by s.h.a.zz.y
    Sorry for going off-topic, but Jeff why do you always miss the point. "Why is Israel ILLEGALLY occupying land which is not theres" ... It is always the Palestinians fault? It is always the Palestinians should do this and this and this... Get over it all Israel needs to do is get out of the land which belongs to Palestinians.

    Do they have an issue reading world maps? (which are even approved by the US and/or UN and Europe)

    If anyone came into my house and tried to take over, I would surely also kill them by any means necessary if it meant harm to my family...
    well - if you check out my other topic http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=255607

    you will see that this is addressed. so I assume that since you think this is palestinian land - they should tear down the mosque that was "illegally built" on the site of the holiest temple of judaism to spite the jews. we cant have it both ways. either one statment is right and we throw the jews out of certain parts and we start rolling back the sands of time. my goodness - as I said in another thread - since I am married to a part cherokee indian - we can then go and throw all the european invaders who stole the indian land in georgia from the cherokees and take some nice hillside property overlooking the river closer to my office.

    that would be nice. is it going to happen - nah

    do peoples have claim to land that they have at one time inhabited? I dont know - i guess it depends. when a generation passes after about 70 years - no one is alive that direclty inhabited the land - so then it becomes an ancestral issue.

    so now where do we go - where does it stop, I did not miss any point in my opinion. the world maps you refer to are the same world maps that have existed since they have made maps - each one has changed - I repeat changed - with time.

    what will the world map look like in 100 years - who knows. I guess it depends on who has the most fight in them to either change it or keep it the same.

    as or palestinans - in these days - why dont we also give them a bigger country os that they can make something of it. give them part of jordan and syria too since those were redrawn. I think that makes sense to hel p them out. oh - yeah - the "brothers " who support their struggle wont support that - only against isreal. this is a nice barking dog that the others dont have to get their hands dirty in my opinion.

    any way - I know you and i have some different opinons on these issues and some similar and thats ok - I just hope someone alot smarter than you and I puttogether can come up with something that works for everyeone before it comes down to a question of somebody out there having to go since they refuse to live with the rest of the world.
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  21. #46
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    Re: Re: Re: yes

    Originally posted by sailor
    <snip>

    so I assume that since you think this is palestinian land -</snip>
    Even bush agrees Israel is occupying Palestinians land as does 99.999% of the rest of the world, I guess that throws your debate out of the window.

    It really dosent suprise me though, every UN resolution that gets put forward against Israel gets vetoed by the same country every time "USA" ....

    Suprised?

    Really Jeff it dosen't take anyone much smater than you and I to figure out how the conclude to this it's very simple:

    1. USA stops vetoing UN resolutions against Israel
    2. USA stops its $1 billion in AID it gave to Israel (lets help them build more nukes - oh one sec aren't we talking about peace here?)
    3. Israel backs off and gives the land which the UN/USA and Europe say is part of Palestine

    "peace between the two countires would be around the corner." - short steps lead to the improvments.

    If the USA on one side shows the road map and on the other VETOs every resolution against Israel and is giving them $1 billion in AID .. It is a no brainer and it sadens me at the least.
    Last edited by s.h.a.zz.y; 04-02-2004 at 08:57 PM.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

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  22. #47
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: yes

    Originally posted by s.h.a.zz.y
    Even bush agrees Israel is occupying Palestinians land as does 99.999% of the rest of the world, I guess that throws your debate out of the window.

    It really dosent suprise me though, every UN resolution that gets put forward against Israel gets vetoed by the same country every time "USA" ....

    Suprised?

    Really Jeff it dosen't take anyone much smater than you and I to figure out how the conclude to this it's very simple:

    1. USA stops vetoing UN resolutions against Israel
    2. USA stops its $1 billion in AID it gave to Israel (lets help them build more nukes - oh one sec aren't we talking about peace here?)
    3. Israel backs off and gives the land which the UN/USA and Europe say is part of Palestine

    "peace between the two countires would be around the corner." - short steps lead to the improvments.

    If the USA on one side shows the road map and on the other VETOs every resolution against Israel and is giving them $1 billion in AID .. It is a no brainer and it sadens me at the least.
    sounds great to me - I personally think we should quit giving foreign aid to alot of countries and in fact I think we need to scale back our un paymenbts to be simply the amount divided by how many of us there are. then have only one vote and no veto power. this is a token membership as we all know any way - because if we dont like what it says we ar going to do what we want any way. I think this is the case for most of us out there so dont say its just u.s.

    I also think we should simply let whoever wants to do something do it. if we dont like - we need to simply go pound them into oblivion. this way every one is responsibel for themselves and we dont interfere until it hurts us and then we interfere by wiping the problem out.

    I think this is what everyone is asking for.

    also on the isreal / middle east issue - I think we need to pull out too and I think isreal needs to get out of west bank and gaza and put up a wall and keep the palestininans out - I think they will continue to pull crap o nthem even after they get their land because quite frankly they just hate each other and always will.

    I think once we pull out - there will eventually be a "holy war" the jews against the muslims which will escalate to nuclear war. I think it is inevitable personally.

    I am just glad I am on the other side of the world from that.


    one more thought - if someone threatens us in this new non interferance policy time - we should go preemptively take them out and be done with it - because they started it and we were minding our own business. right? remeber - you cant have it both ways.
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  23. #48
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: yes

    Originally posted by sailor
    sounds great to me - I personally think we should quit giving foreign aid to alot of countries and in fact I think we need to scale back our un paymenbts to be simply the amount divided by how many of us there are. then have only one vote and no veto power. this is a token membership as we all know any way - because if we dont like what it says we ar going to do what we want any way. I think this is the case for most of us out there so dont say its just u.s.

    I also think we should simply let whoever wants to do something do it. if we dont like - we need to simply go pound them into oblivion. this way every one is responsibel for themselves and we dont interfere until it hurts us and then we interfere by wiping the problem out.

    I think this is what everyone is asking for.

    also on the isreal / middle east issue - I think we need to pull out too and I think isreal needs to get out of west bank and gaza and put up a wall and keep the palestininans out - I think they will continue to pull crap o nthem even after they get their land because quite frankly they just hate each other and always will.

    I think once we pull out - there will eventually be a "holy war" the jews against the muslims which will escalate to nuclear war. I think it is inevitable personally.

    I am just glad I am on the other side of the world from that.


    one more thought - if someone threatens us in this new non interferance policy time - we should go preemptively take them out and be done with it - because they started it and we were minding our own business. right? remeber - you cant have it both ways.
    /yawns (I am sleeepy head) - I can go to sleep knowing I am still sane... Have fun in the Caribbean.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

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  24. #49
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: yes

    Originally posted by s.h.a.zz.y
    /yawns (I am sleeepy head) - I can go to sleep knowing I am still sane... Have fun in the Caribbean.
    lol - thanks man
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  25. #50
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    oh geez - another one

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

    another "preacher" jumping into the murder ring.

    hmmm...what would God say.


    oh yeah - he is shiite too - arent they the ones we just gave freedom to? lol - someone said earlier about the dog that bites the hand that feeds it.

    we are definately on the right track here - this country is definately a terrorist hotbed - we need to step up the heat and finish the job. its obviously not done.

    we also need to quit giving "preachers" who decide to become "combatants" immunity from attack.
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