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  1. #1
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    Anyone think the US still should be Iraq?


  2. #2
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    Yes.
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  3. #3
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    I honestly dont think our soliders should be there. They should not have gone over there in the first place. I lie made by our goverment officials is what sent them over there in the first place, i dont think thats right for them to be there because i think Bush wanted to finish what his daddy couldnt. Im supprised no other countries that stopped the Gulf War when Sr. was in House is stopping this war.

    anyways
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  4. #4
    <sarcasm>
    Yes we should be in Iraq. We have freed these people from their evil dictator. Now we must help them build a democracy!
    </sarcasm>

    Iraq's don't want us there. They don't want democracy.

    All we did in Iraq is took a person who hated/killed Islamic extremists and take him out of power so now terroists can run rampant in the country.

    Iraqi's don't want democracy, if they did they would have fought for it. Please Americans say it with me "we are not the Earth's police force".

    Many people say we liberated Iraq from a harsh dictatorship. It's bull, we wnt there for the black gold and everyone in the world knows it. If we were so concerned with liborating countries from harsh dictatorships then why haven't we attacked China and liberated Tibet (for those of you who don't know China took over Tibet in a harsh military offensive that killed <b>millions</b> of tibetan(sp) monks and they continue to kill and oppress them to this day)?

    I find it very funny that we call Saudi Arabia our ally when they are one of the worst dictatorships in the world. They are crual to their people and the openly support terrorism. On the other side we have Iran who is the only true democracy in the middle east. They also don't like Islamic extremist much and yet we call them part of the Axis of evil.

  5. #5
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    No, we don't even belong in Iraq. Whatever happened to catching Osama Bin Laden and terrorist? It shifted from catching a group of men to an entire nation. How can you miss an arab thats 6'6 that has kidney failure?

    Honestly, I think we shouldn't help them build they're country for free. They should trade us oil for us to rebuild some of they're cities and improve they're life. I don't think we as an american should fit the bill so foreign scum can live off our dime when so many americans are unemployed.
    Kerry Jones

  6. #6
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    My father (retired from U.S. Army) has been offered a job in iraq. The job pays $150,000 ($180,000 before taxes) and will require 1 year of him being there.

    His job? To be a guard.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by Rob83
    My father (retired from U.S. Army) has been offered a job in iraq. The job pays $150,000 ($180,000 before taxes) and will require 1 year of him being there.

    His job? To be a guard.
    Make sure to pay his life insurance policy on time and up the coverage.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    Honestly, I think we shouldn't help them build they're country for free. They should trade us oil for us to rebuild some of they're cities and improve they're life. I don't think we as an american should fit the bill so foreign scum can live off our dime when so many americans are unemployed.
    The bill is being paid, it's why their oil fields are being privitised against their wishes for the benefit of companies like Exxon, just the tax Exxon, Texaco etc will pay into the US treasury over the next decade or two from their Iraq operations will make the money currently being used for Iraq look like peanuts.

    I am sure Exxon and it's shareholders are very grateful to those laying down their lives for future profits and dividends, particularly those shareholders in and around the whitehouse.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by dk2
    Make sure to pay his life insurance policy on time and up the coverage.
    Yup/ His life insurance policy is at $3million right now.

    He's debating. The extra $150,000 would go all to the house and pay off the house.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by dk2
    Iraqi's don't want democracy, if they did they would have fought for it. Please Americans say it with me "we are not the Earth's police force".
    Oh, yes, it is that easy. I met an exchange student who lived in Iraq up until a couple years ago. I was talking with him, and was asking about why people didn't resist sadam. His exact words were "if you don't support Sadam, he shoots you in the face. If you speak out against you, he doesn't shoot you in the face. But he shoots all your family in the face."

    I don't think a lot of people who say "they'd fight for what they want" realize what it's like to live somewhere you're not free to speak your mind, to rebel, to protest, or to speak out against your government.
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  11. #11
    Originally posted by amusive.com
    I don't think a lot of people who say "they'd fight for what they want" realize what it's like to live somewhere you're not free to speak your mind, to rebel, to protest, or to speak out against your government.
    Just look at America!

  12. #12
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    I am. What specific part should I be looking at?
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  13. #13
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  14. #14
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    Amen dk2.

    Yeah, I was looking at this earlier today... pretty brutal to say the least. I don't think we should have been there in the first place, but if we leave now things will really get out of hand.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Rob83
    My father (retired from U.S. Army) has been offered a job in iraq. The job pays $150,000 ($180,000 before taxes) and will require 1 year of him being there.

    His job? To be a guard.
    Hey they are paying $150k plus for junior network technicians to work in the Minstry of COmmunicatiosn settign up NT and linux boxes for basic network related stuff and maybe few router/switches and running copper/fiber across teh building.

    Today 2 americans from South Jersey were shot killed and burnt and their bodies mutilated and dragged in streets. These pictures are making me puke .. its on yahoo.

    This is a disgrace ..

    If this is why so many american soilders died for, then its Bush who needs to be kicked out from office and given the same treatment he sent these young men to.

    Im fact ,what I forsee is that Iraq being a hot bed of islamic terrorism and will be an afganisthan exactly the case of snake biting the hands that feeds them.

    Sad I hope they get out in June ..
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by bagpuss
    The bill is being paid, it's why their oil fields are being privitised against their wishes for the benefit of companies like Exxon, just the tax Exxon, Texaco etc will pay into the US treasury over the next decade or two from their Iraq operations will make the money currently being used for Iraq look like peanuts.

    I am sure Exxon and it's shareholders are very grateful to those laying down their lives for future profits and dividends, particularly those shareholders in and around the whitehouse.

    Thats obvious bagpuss ... wars only help those who start them.

    In fact , it was WWII that helped majority of US maufactring co;s to get into teh Fortune 500 position and the industrial might of US is based around conflicts and wars.

    However, if I were a businessman and my profits depended on wars, I would be planting WMD all across Iraq by now.

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  17. #17
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    So we should allow people with no regard for humanity to run free in iraq? The people who did that are extremeists, the article said that. They are NOT the majority. The majority of Iraqis want democracy.

    Some people do not understand that the world is changing. We are becoming a global economy, and as we become a global economy, as much as I hate to say it, we will become a global nation state (one government). The UN has only a few things left to do before it technically is considered a country (like own land, declare a currency etc).

    Take a look at the book Revelations in the Bible, a lot of the prophecies in there are happening/have happened. I have no doubt within my mind that the end times will happen in my lifetime.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by designNYC
    Thats obvious bagpuss ... wars only help those who start them.
    Yes it does seem very obvious, yet apparently those whining about the cost to the US taxpayer need it pointed out to them.

  19. #19
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    amish_geek -

    Most generations feel that they are living in the era of the "end". A big part of revelations states that peace will be gained in the middle-east and governed by a united body. I know this thread is not a biblical forum, but we are a long way from peace in that part of the world.
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by ScottD
    Yes.
    Just curious Scott but what are you basing this on?
    It's true that the Iraqis are happy to be rid of Saddam but don't ever get the idea that they are a friend to the US.

    The US supplied all of the arms and the money for Iraq to fight Iran and as soon as the Iraqis were done with Iran they turned their attention to countries friendly with the US.
    They were not interested in diplomacy. They were not thanking the US for assistance. The entire time they were receiving aid they were calling the US pigs and criminals.

    The same is true today. While they are happy to be rid of Saddam they have no love for Americans and there are 2 generations of Iraqis who would gladly see Americans die.

    Originally posted by amish_geek
    The majority of Iraqis want democracy.
    That is a very American viewpoint. (I'm not saying you are American, just the viewpoint.) Democracy is something that is preached in the west and basically forced on other cultures by the US.
    The vast majority of people in the middle east have no interest in Democracy. They have live for generations and generations under crown rule or dictatorship and they consider that to be the correct way.

  21. #21
    Yes, communisim and brutal dictators are a much better system.

    Oh as for the tired, old, and total inaccurate "Blood of Oil" rethoric. I can see how that's made gas so much cheaper now...yes, indeedy...see it everytime I go to the pump and pay $2 a gallon.

    I love the "oil" hypocrites who would die tommorrow if you told them that to please them, the are restricting oil production, but because of that, you'll pay $5 a gallon for it, food prices will triple, heating will consist of you farting in a jar and burning old underwear, and as for electricity, well, hook up that generator to the treadmill or stationary cycle if you want to play your Xbox.

    Sure oil companies make money on oil, so what? You willing to give up your lifestyle, shut down you businesses, turn your car into a lawn ornament? I'm not.

    At least I'm not hypocritcal about it.

  22. #22
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    Blue,

    I base my "Yes" on only one thing. We owe a LOT to the Iraqi people for the problems we've caused in the past. For the promises we made and never fulfilled and the support we gave to bad people, we owe them a lot. An apology would be a good start, but I think helping them build a new country is also a good thing.

    And yes, I am very naieve and ignorant. I have very little "clue" of what the facts really are. I base my opinion on what I read from a few mil-bloggers, who are either there now or were recently.
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  23. #23
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    yes

    yes - however I think we should have more help there. blue - you are easily swayed by a few radicals murdering - we have more backbone than that. if that were the case - everytime someone came throwing rocks we would run away. right now - most of europe would be under the dictatorship of the fourth riech and all of the far east would be under communism.

    we would probably be the ony true democracy left. there would proabably be much less innovation and the standard of living globally would be far worse.

    any way - we will never run from a fight. in fact if the terrorists were smart they would know this . we learned this from our several weak democratic presidents who were more apt to be world followers and sit back and say please dont hurt us. now we have leadership that realizes the awesome power they have at their fingertips and is bringing it to bear. The more violence the minority over there tries to perpetrate the more we will dig in our heels and go after them. we will not stop until there is peace one way or another.

    the terrorist started this and now that they have woken a sleeping giant - there is going to be a lot of cleanup happening. in fact I personally think the real base of the iraq war this time is just a little retribution from the 1991 war that we did not finish and the ongoing brashness of sadam in thumbing his nose at the world. it says - dont come hit us and start a fight with us - you will lose big time because we will come and beat the hell out of you in a very large way. you will be deposed in a very violent and uglly military action and if you are not part of a government we will hunt you down and kill you or capture you and send you to a nasty prison.

    if everyone wants us out of iraq - quit attacking us and let the iraqi governement take over - you will see us get out fast - no one wants to be there longer than it takes.

    the palestinians - they should stop all viloence - form a governement and petition the world body - I think you will see their actions rewarded. start acting like real people that can run a country instead of a pack of suicidal maniacs.

    screaming and blowing stuff up and running around like a bunch of idiots is not going to get anyone to support an independance because world leaders will only think - hey these guys are going to cause problems for us if we put them in charge of scale of resources.

    any way - my 2 cents - btw - you know how many people we have lost in wars that were now ours? wars that we were helping defend dmeocracy? yeah - its a lot. maybe people ought to start showing some appreciation instaed of the disdain -unless they are really that jealous of the us accomplishmnets, dedicatiojn and sacrifice.

    I am appreciative to our allies and those in the world who trade with us and fight with us for good. I am also proud of my association with them.

    you can all feel free to slam me for my feelings on this and think less of me if it makes you feel better.
    Last edited by sailor; 03-31-2004 at 06:19 PM.
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  24. #24
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    disagree

    That is a very American viewpoint. (I'm not saying you are American, just the viewpoint.) Democracy is something that is preached in the west and basically forced on other cultures by the US.
    The vast majority of people in the middle east have no interest in Democracy. They have live for generations and generations under crown rule or dictatorship and they consider that to be the correct way.

    I dont believe that. I think most want democracy . what do you base your statement on?
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  25. #25
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    Of course the U.S. should still be there. Political goals aside, how many would likely be killed if the U.S. pulled out too soon and a civil war ensued?

    The "lies" told about the reasons for the invasion of Iraq are that President Bush lied to the American public. I have yet to see a single piece of credible evidence that this is so. It is nothing more than election year rhetoric. The best available information was that the invasion was necessary.

    Here is what Senator Kerry had to say about Saddam and Iraq in October 2002.

    From John Kerry's website.

    Although he is critical of President Bush's approach in some instances, he was clearly in support of ousting Saddam.

    Need more "evidence" that just about everyone thought Saddam had WMD? How about this transcript from President Clinton's from 1998. link.

    In the minds of some, including myself, the mockery Saddam made of the UN and the inspections process, and the prolonged stick waving in th name of diplomacy gave Saddam more than enough time to move his weapons elsewhere. I heard a Former Iraqi (now happily living in the U.S.) on the radio today saying that he and every Iraqi he knows in the U.S. is convinced that the WMD did in fact exist and were moved to Syria. Granted, this is speculation and rumor only, but to me it has as much or more credibility than those in the media who prefer to think of President Bush as a liar than deal with the reality of how to move forward from here.

  26. #26
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    I think Saddam had to be removed, but I felt the cost to do this was not worth it. That money could of gone to so many other things.

    Now that we are in it though we must stay till a viable government exists. If we left now the place would only get worse.
    Alvin

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    Those people are animals.

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    Regardless of the motives behind going into Iraq, the fact is, the iraqi people are better off now. They can "grow up" and live in a civilized country or continue to run around the streets with guns and act like children. Its up to the Iraqi people.

    However, I believe the US should remain there for as long as it takes. Its the USA's responsibility. It became the USA's responsibility the moment they put their first foot on the soil of iraq. If the US leaves iraq, then Iraq will simply get worse and worse.

    Seriously though, Bush won't let the US leave Iraq. Why would he go to all that trouble, and leave the oil for someone else to claim?

  30. #30
    They need to be in my opinion, they haven't fulfilled their goal of restoring peace AND order in Iraq.
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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by 4 Degrees
    They need to be in my opinion, they haven't fulfilled their goal of restoring peace AND order in Iraq.
    Yep.

    Originally posted by bagpuss
    The bill is being paid, it's why their oil fields are being privitised against their wishes for the benefit of companies like Exxon, just the tax Exxon, Texaco etc will pay into the US treasury over the next decade or two from their Iraq operations will make the money currently being used for Iraq look like peanuts.

    I am sure Exxon and it's shareholders are very grateful to those laying down their lives for future profits and dividends, particularly those shareholders in and around the whitehouse.
    Please provide reputable evidence to backup your statement.

  32. #32
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    fallujah and similar places

    in places like this where the populus is clearly combat hostiles - our troops should be given deadly force first - questions second . also - these people in the pics should be hunted down and executed in public for being accessories to murder.

    seems like they like having a heavy hand used on them (or club across their head).

    live by the sword - die by the sword - and dont say yeah your tropps are now dieing by the sword they live by - if they let them go to run it like they want - you would see mass executions on military tribunals and the innocent co0llateral damage would go way up and the soldier deaths would go down. so I dont even want to hear it.

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  33. #33
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    Originally posted by binaris

    Please provide reputable evidence to backup your statement.
    Which bit of my statement, that the economic benefits from getting access to a conservitive estimate of $10 trillion in oil reserves in Iraq, will be greater than the cost of rebuilding Iraq or that many in the whitehouse or who advise the whitehouse hold shares in these companies?

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by ArtieFishill
    Oh as for the tired, old, and total inaccurate "Blood of Oil" rethoric. I can see how that's made gas so much cheaper now...yes, indeedy...see it everytime I go to the pump and pay $2 a gallon.
    And you've just shown you know nothing about the oil market well done, if you had the slightest idea about the econmics of oil you would know that the current price rise in the US, is down to the increased demand from the US (about 2 million extra barrels a day) who are trying to restock their oil reserve which is rather low at the moment, also that OPEC reduced their output by 3% a while ago and in fact agreed to reduce again yesterday, plus concerns over supplies from Venezula, Nigeria and Iran.

  35. #35
    well, i've been saying this even before the war started, i know the Iraqis, and i know whats going to happen next-read history, keyword "betray".
    I think we are on the steps of another Vietnam.
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    we agree on something!!!

    Originally posted by Web Rhino
    well, i've been saying this even before the war started, i know the Iraqis, and i know whats going to happen next-read history, keyword "betray".
    I think we are on the steps of another Vietnam.
    we finally agree that the Iraqis are a bunch of betraying backsatabbers who are jsut as happy to slit your throat after you have them over for dinner.

    althought viet nam I dont think so - I hope our guys get intolerant and start declaring the citizen militias - spies since they are not in uniform and field executing them in public. this will bring a dose of reality to them. maybe they wont be so jubilant about murdering a bunch of unarmed civilians - what a bunch of cowards.
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    victims identified

    http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/sto...88.htm&sc=1107

    most were married and had children

    sound like very talented people who wanted to make a difference who were stolen from us by a bunch of murdering scum.

    did you get the one guy who spoke 5 languages fluently.
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    Everyone says we should stay so we can finish what we started - that'll never happen. We cannot change the mentality of an entire culture, we're not just talking about installing a government, for that government to work, people have to believe in the _many_ underlying ideals behind it, they dont.

    Do I believe Iraqis are bad people? No. The people who mutilated those soldier's bodies were sub-human, and I would not classify them as anyone worth mentioning as part of any notable culture, let alone let them represent an entire people's mentality.

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    Re: yes

    Originally posted by sailor
    <snip>
    the palestinians - they should stop all viloence - form a governement and petition the world body - I think you will see their actions rewarded. start acting like real people that can run a country instead of a pack of suicidal maniacs.

    </snip>
    Sorry for going off-topic, but Jeff why do you always miss the point. "Why is Israel ILLEGALLY occupying land which is not theres" ... It is always the Palestinians fault? It is always the Palestinians should do this and this and this... Get over it all Israel needs to do is get out of the land which belongs to Palestinians.

    Do they have an issue reading world maps? (which are even approved by the US and/or UN and Europe)

    If anyone came into my house and tried to take over, I would surely also kill them by any means necessary if it meant harm to my family...


    Back ontopic:

    The so-called coalition should never have been in Iraq, as we all know the USA has never been good at clearing up the mess it creates or peace-keeping.... I full heartedly wish them good luck.
    luck.
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  40. #40

    Re: Re: yes

    I have a feeling my post is going to be long, but I'll give background information first:

    Just like any major war (most considerably WWI and WWII, each was fueled by either one or two major actions taken by opposing countries. Sinking of the Luisitania (sp), note from Germany to Mexico (Zimmerman note?) - - WWI, and Pearl Harbor -- WWII, 9/11 - Afghanistan/Iraq. I'm not saying these were the only reasons why America went into these wars, but they were some of the major reasons. The presidents used these events to fuel the country and gain their support to enter the war. Of course, each had other benefits which all helped America grow into a bigger economy, and a major world power. At the time of each of these wars there was some major problem in the nation. Each of the wars helped us get out of the slum. WWI - Depression, WWII - very high unemployment rates/bad economy, Afghanistan/Iraq - Recession / unemployment. Although the effects of the current war are not setting into full effect, I believe that it will come sooner or later. You can already see some results, the economy is already starting to pick up, and when Bush came into office it was already leading the path towards a huge recession. He used 9/11 as the basis to go to war, terrorists must pay, he says. As for George Bush knowing that 9/11 was going to occur, but hadn't reacted because he wanted this exact situation to happen, a conspiracy to try and get American into another war with the help of 9/11-- no proof at all. It's much easier for conspirators to point fingers at people than to admit it wasn't anyone’s fault. Oil -- yes, a reason why American went into Iran but it was never said that oil was one of the main reasons to go to war. But, we all know that they had oil on the mind. We can't say however that America went into war just for the sake of oil. Once again, no proof.

    Now, to get onto the actual topic -- should America stay in Iraq? In my opinion, yes. Now, you might say that people will die over there for a lost cause, and hope that the troops will be out of there by ( I believe one of the other users posted this month) June. If we pull out of there that early, it could mean disastrous things. As for soldiers loosing their lives -- yes, some will die. Hundreds die in America every day, it's like regular news. "5 people are killed today in a bank robbery gone awry." We grieve for about 10 minutes, if at that, and move on with our lives. I know some of us have friends and family over their, and as family of the people over there, you may not think this is the most appropriate message, but, they have signed up to fight for their country, and help the nation in time of its need. And that is why they are over there. They know the consequences, and they are ready to fight for what is right. Now, let’s say that America does bring the troops home, and we let Iraq be on its own again. This is the first picture that comes to my mind: Extremists grow and gain followers; they have major stock in weapons and firepower. The extremists grow in power, and eventually start killing off people that believe in democracy. People who speak in what they believe in are immediately shot -- just like what happened when Saddam was in power. Soon the extremists take over the country. Sounds a lot like what happened in Afghanistan when American pulled out before we should have after the whole issue with Russia. Looking at history, which is always the best source to go to, we see that when pulling out of a country too early, is never a good thing. But, when a country stays and builds up the country, or at least take a major part in its rehabilitation, the results are amazing. One example, Japan after WWII, we helped with the re-growth of Japan, and now it has one of the best economies in the world. And, suppose America does plan to pull out, and the unthinkable happens. All those American lives lost in vain. Why not stay there and make sure that the lives of the lost soldiers who helped fight for freedom are proud of what they have helped to create?

    And, the fact that Iraqis don't want us there. Where is the solid evidence? We only have our own opinions and what the media has to give us. This is also biased. News stations that are more liberal will show more of the people of Iraq who are against us being there, and very little of/none of the people who are for American intervention. You might say, "Maybe there ARE none who want us there" Yes, and if this were true you would get A LOT more reports of terrorism going on.

    Now, you have to think about the benefits of us being there. It's creating new jobs, helping the economy, and hopefully will make gas prices go down eventually. We will also put a stand on terrorism, and tell the other terrorist nations that American CAN and WILL put down anyone that we come up against. Call it American pride, but it's true.

    Whew, that was long. I doubt any of you actually read the whole thing, but hey, it kept me occupied. Most of it's opinion-based, and most of the facts are coming from the back of my brain, so they might not be 100% correct. Comments/Questions/Concerns appreciated.
    Last edited by dinc; 04-02-2004 at 07:32 PM.

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