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  1. #1
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    so downloading music doesn't affect sales

    apparently

    http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/Fil..._March2004.pdf

    Previous stories have included guess work by the RIAA and associated bodies. Now, for the first time, someone whose names begins "Professor" has done some proper research into the area. He comes from Harvard Business School apparently.

    Thus:

    The study found that "downloads have an effect on sales which is
    statistically indistinguishable from zero, despite rather precise estimates, moreover, these estimates are of moderate economic significance and are inconsistent with claims that file sharing is the primary reason for the recent decline in music sales". The study also found that:

    * File sharing cannot explain the decline in sales of music during 2002
    * More popular CDs benefit from file sharing
    * Marketing still strongly influences what people download and what they buy

    thanks to SarcasticLawyer for the lowdown, couldn't be bothered myself
    <erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.

  2. #2
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    You can do a study and come to the exact opposite conclusion, too.

    Reguardless, there are still people who download music they do not legally own. It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have bought the album anyway, it's illegal.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  3. #3
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    I say download all you want. You're not supporting the artist by buying their album - only the record labels (mostly RIAA labels). For every Album ($15) around $0.10 goes to the artist. The rest goes into the wallets of the record companies. They make far more money from one live concert than they do by selling 1 million CDs. Who cares if it's legal or not?
    Gone.

  4. #4
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    Whatever you can tell yourself that lets you sleep at night
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  5. #5
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    I always knew downloading doesnt affect sales!!!!!!

    Its all about getting $$$,nothing more.......I bet the RIAA doesnt give a rats tail if peeps share,they just want the $$$......

    Terrible world we live in today

    The Dude

  6. #6
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    of course P2P reduces record label profits.....if downloading music wasn't an option people would be forced to buy CD's......

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by amusive.com
    You can do a study and come to the exact opposite conclusion, too.

    Reguardless, there are still people who download music they do not legally own. It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have bought the album anyway, it's illegal.
    This thread isn't debating whether or not downloading is legal. It is disgussing whether or not it affects sales of music, please pay attention.

    I personally am of the belief that it increases sales, and is a good promotional tool for up and coming artists. Once record companies arrive in the 21st century and somebody explains what a computer is and what the internet is perhaps they will start working with it instead of against it.

    Doc
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  8. #8
    I personally believe it both increases and decreases sales. Some people will like a few songs and buy the CD, or only download the few that they like. Some artists definately benefit, others don't. Some artists websites you can actually download a few tracks, it is a good advertising tool, but it is risky.
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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by Bub Host
    of course P2P reduces record label profits.....if downloading music wasn't an option people would be forced to buy CD's......
    although true you have to ask to what extent downloading affects sales, for instance if a person who has 100gig of mp3's on his hard drive which he uses to power his ipod changing them frequently had actually bought the music files how much of the 100gig would he have bought? what about the casual users that download 1 or 2 tracks from an album to make a compilation of their favorite songs, how much would they have bought because i can garauntee it would not be the 20 or so albums needed to make the one compilation.


    also what about the benefits, my daughter likes busted so i downloaded one of there's year 3000 i think it was called, anyway because she had this one song i got badgered to death to buy the albums which i duly did, i did this because although mp3's are good they are no substitute for having the real thing in your record collection


    so there are upside and downsides to everything, a friend of mine at work has a band he sounds a lot like the rolling stones but cant get heard, he has written a song for another friend at works website to go with his clan, he plays vietcong and so the song reflects this, anyway he would like nothing more than a couple of million people to download this song and others to get him and his band a name and fan base wider than gainsborough.

    although its illegal the record companys dont bleat when the downloaders get a record to the top of the charts because everyone is banging on about it because they got it from the net and buy the original or the album......

    like i said there is two sides to every story

  10. #10
    It works both ways.

    Unfortunately, there aren't many better reasons to justify why the sales of CDs has gone down since the arrival of P2P applications. Whether it really affected the CD sales now remains only a matter of personal opinion. RIAA thinks it did; while file-sharers don't. This professor thinks it didn't while another thinks it did.

    You can go round and round and round; you will never come at a concrete conclusion for the industry in general. For individual cases, yes, but not generally.

  11. #11
    Maybe they should make less CD's then if there's a sales drop and their profit margin wouldn't change much
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  12. #12
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    okay... heres my take on this

    filesharing probably affects sales a little yes... but like the guy said its statistically indistinguishable from zero (not sure how accurate that is though)

    but the point is, filesharing is stealing? yes.

    people steal? yes.

    if filesharing were not an option, people would find other ways to obtain the music illegally anyway (burn CD's from friends)

    so... filesharing has just made it easier to steal, but is not the source of it.

    human nature is the source

  13. #13
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    I actually believe it helps sales. You download one new song from a new artist, like it and say "I gotta have the CD." Go to WallyWorld and buy it....cha ching. When the original Napster was up, I used to look for oddball songs you couldn't find anywhere. Well, some of the songs I got had the name of the album as part of their "ID3" tags and discovered they were from a set of CDs called "Have a nice Day, vol XX". After that I started looking for those discs and bought many of them in the series.

    If the RIAA was smart, they would not be suing people, but instead try to market the artists via the downloads. I don't think it's the download issue, it control. The RIAA wants full control of music and since D/L and other things bypass that, they're feeling helpless.

    Originally posted by TheDoctor
    This thread isn't debating whether or not downloading is legal. It is disgussing whether or not it affects sales of music, please pay attention.

    I personally am of the belief that it increases sales, and is a good promotional tool for up and coming artists. Once record companies arrive in the 21st century and somebody explains what a computer is and what the internet is perhaps they will start working with it instead of against it.

    Doc
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    Everything happens for a reason I make up.

  14. #14
    I am surprised nobody has brought up the cost of a CD. Who wants to pay $15-18 a CD when you may really only want 2 or 3 songs off that CD. I think the record labels are shotting themselves in the foot with the high prices, when it is just so tempting and easy for people to just download the 2 or 3 songs that they want and save the $15 for somthing else.

  15. #15
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    Only $15? Over here a lot of chart CDs are 14.99 ($28). Screw paying that.

    I heard that when they bring out iTunes over here, it will be 99p per song - double the cost in the US, simply because it's traditional to rip off europeans.

    E.g. software. $399 macromedia product is 389 here ($650). If you buy from the US and try and get any support they won't touch you.
    Gone.

  16. #16
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    The CD sales started going down way before P2P came into play. A lot of it is the garbage that's being put out nowadays, the discontinuence of CD singles for many of the artists and the big groups releasing less albums then in the past. Also a big factor is the price. Some retailers like Sam Goody charge up to $20.99 for a CD (including those from Universal, which are supposed to be cheaper) while stores like Target can be had for $12.99.

    Originally posted by Subhadip
    It works both ways.

    Unfortunately, there aren't many better reasons to justify why the sales of CDs has gone down since the arrival of P2P applications. Whether it really affected the CD sales now remains only a matter of personal opinion. RIAA thinks it did; while file-sharers don't. This professor thinks it didn't while another thinks it did.

    You can go round and round and round; you will never come at a concrete conclusion for the industry in general. For individual cases, yes, but not generally.
    73's, Kim
    Everything happens for a reason I make up.

  17. #17
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    I saw a graph of the new releases and CD sales over this 'terrible' time when p2p apps have been around. They were directly proportional. Bring out more/better music and ditch all the pop carp that's out now (Britney, Kylie, Sugarbabes etc. etc.) and get some REAL musicians (those who can play an instrument)
    Gone.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by TheDoctor
    This thread isn't debating whether or not downloading is legal. It is disgussing whether or not it affects sales of music, please pay attention.
    Please pay attention to my whole post. The first part was about downloading and its affect on sales. I added a side note too. Sorry this offends you. Or disgusses you

    Personally I do know that I buy a lot more music because I download music. But, partly because I know a lot of college aged people, I know a LOT of people that do not buy any music anymore. They don't see the need.

    I also know someone in the process of ripping his entire collection so he can sell all his CDs (again, this isn't downloading, so don't get upset about the tangent).
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  19. #19
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    What played a role in the decline of music sales is the price. $20 for a piece of plastic and a cheesy cover? I wouldn't pay that if my life depended on it and with the RIAA suing people I wouldn't buy music. The RIAA is the biggest crooks in the industry. They are the ones who take a nice cut from the artist and then sue people for $3,000. I call it "rack em and stack em" trials. I would also like to add a side note in Canada its like $12.99 for a CD.
    Kerry Jones

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by KimmiKat
    Also a big factor is the price. Some retailers like Sam Goody charge up to $20.99 for a CD (including those from Universal, which are supposed to be cheaper) while stores like Target can be had for $12.99.
    Oh yeah. Actually there was a big fuss in my area, a local record shop is going out of business. People are sad because it was the last independent shop.

    I've been in there. No cd was less than $18.99. And I'm supposed to feel bad that this place is going out of business? I can get most CDs new on the net for $9.99...
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    What played a role in the decline of music sales is the price. $20 for a piece of plastic and a cheesy cover? I wouldn't pay that if my life depended on it and with the RIAA suing people I wouldn't buy music. The RIAA is the biggest crooks in the industry. They are the ones who take a nice cut from the artist and then sue people for $3,000. I call it "rack em and stack em" trials. I would also like to add a side note in Canada its like $12.99 for a CD.
    I'd also like to expand on the Canada comment. Over here, it's legal to download MP3's, just not upload them to anyone. Canadians pay up the rump in levies for each CD-R we buy. In the USA, i think i saw a 50 pack of cd-r's going for what, $9/USD? I even think i saw places giving mail in's to make it free. In Canada, a spindle of 50 cd's will run you ~$35 - $40. 90% of our cost, goes to the artists, even if the cd's aren't for audio.

    Some people are trying to sue Canadians for having a lot of music (hell, i got 2500 mp3's my self), but they aren't going to get anywhere with it.

    And a note - Canadians pay levies on teh following -

    -Mp3 players - there is a levy for each size (like, $10 CND for a 40gb Ipod or something)
    - CD-r's
    - DVD-r's
    - VHS tapes
    - Audio tapes

    I got ~350 cd-r's at home, all full of anime. Maybe 5 of those are audio cd's, yet, i still paid $100+ in levies 'cuz i just *might*




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  22. #22
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    In the USA CD-Rs are free YOu can almost always find a pack for free after rebate. I've probably gotten at least 2000 this way (seriously). The last time I bought CD-Rs was back in the day before 2x burners existed, and I paid $10 a disc. Bad burns really, really hurt back then.

    CDs are really cheap in canada. Which is why most of my music ends up coming from canada (mymusic.com rocks!)
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  23. #23
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    mymusic is great!

    I often dl a couple songs off an album, then go out and buy the cd.

    Although this isnt music, I got a cracked version of NeedForSpeed2. I liked it and have since bought NFS 1,3,4,5,6,7. If I hadnt got that cracked NFS2, I probably wouldn't have bought any NFS games until #5 came out. Sharing of music/files isn't all bad
    -Chris
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by DeltaAnime
    I'd also like to expand on the Canada comment. Over here, it's legal to download MP3's, just not upload them to anyone.
    That is untrue as of today (Wednesday). It is now legal for Canadians to both upload AND download music.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...swapping_court

    File swappers in Canada can rest easy for the moment after a Federal Court ruling Wednesday said uploading music files into shared folders on peer-to-peer networks like Kazaa is legal.
    -Chris
    "There are 10 kinds of people; those who understand binary, and those who don't."

  25. #25
    Mester,

    So now this brings up the point, if a Canadian uploads a song to an American is it legal?

  26. #26
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    Thats a good point,i wonder

    The Dude

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by amusive.com
    It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have bought the album anyway, it's illegal.
    L...O...L...

    You sound like one of those a-holes at the RIAA or Pepsi exploiting children to make up for the record labels' mismanagement of funds.

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by dk2
    Mester,

    So now this brings up the point, if a Canadian uploads a song to an American is it legal?
    Probably. Despite what people not "in the know" will say, downloading has not been ruled illegal in the US either. It's uploading that is seen as crossing the line (here).

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by dk2
    So now this brings up the point, if a Canadian uploads a song to an American is it legal?
    I'm not really sure, but I think the Canadian would have nothing to worry about, but the American would be subject to US laws on downloading the stuff.
    -Chris
    "There are 10 kinds of people; those who understand binary, and those who don't."

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by Mester
    That is untrue as of today (Wednesday). It is now legal for Canadians to both upload AND download music.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...swapping_court

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