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Thread: FrontPage2000

  1. #1

    FrontPage2000

    Hello all

    first time here

    I have a lot of questions about FrontPage (2000), the first one being, why do some characteristcs show in the Normal Pane but not in the Preview.

    For instance, I made a table 800 wide. Then in one row, inserted another table, also 800 wide. I wanted the borders flush, which happened in the preview, but there was some jutting out in the Normal Pane.

    I had heard there were some quirks to FP, so I sent the pages for uploading anyway. And, of course, the jutting out showed on the those uploaded pages.

    I hadn't added any borders or cushion of any kind (that I know of)

    any ideas?

    thanks in advance

    TW

  2. #2
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    When you are in the Normal view, you are in the editing mode. Things will look differently. You see the dotted lines to the table to help you judge where that table is. You see the dotted lines of the cells to help you see where the one cell ends & the next one begins.

    It sounds like who inserted two tables inside one another? This is OK, but why bother if you made them both one table (and one cell) at 800 pixels?

  3. #3
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    First, I highly recommend that you go with Macromedia Dreamweaver. After saying that, Microsoft FP2000 has a problem with dynamic effects. Prime example is their hit counter. It's next to impossible to get their hit counter to work. Least I have never gotten it to work correctly.

    The reason there is jutting is because a table in a table cannot be flush. There will be some gap. It's like putting a small block into a bigger block. It may fit, but never be 100% flush. That is just impossible.
    - Chris
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    www.theundergroundfiles.com

  4. #4
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    Originally posted by NikeAero1080

    The reason there is jutting is because a table in a table cannot be flush. There will be some gap. It's like putting a small block into a bigger block. It may fit, but never be 100% flush. That is just impossible.
    I may be misunderstanding you, but that's incorrect. In theory, it sounds right, but you can have a 100% table inside a table and yes, it will be exactly flush assuming your larger table has no padding, etc.

    Jason
    http://www.charlottezweb.com
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  5. #5
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    I just did it in Front Page XP and in Dreamweaver. I use no padding and put one inside another. They are not 100% flush. If that's the look you are going for make one table. That's the only way I can see it working.
    - Chris
    [email protected]
    www.totalmindblow.com
    www.theundergroundfiles.com

  6. #6
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    Umm....can I see a test page? It's worked fine for me over the past 10 years...

    Are you putting borders on the tables?

    If you nest a table inside another, (with graphics in them for example), without any padding, spacing, etc...they will be flush. This is how complicated designs using image slicing is possible.

    -Jason
    http://www.charlottezweb.com
    HOSTING your livelihood

  7. #7
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    I use tables in all of my sites to keep everything clean. Perhaps I'm just not understanding what he is attempting to do. I rarely put 1 table inside another if they are the same size. There is no point unless you want a different background.
    - Chris
    [email protected]
    www.totalmindblow.com
    www.theundergroundfiles.com

  8. #8
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    Since I drove this thread way off topic, I'll stop with this post

    but...

    There can be many reasons to nest tables for formatting purposes that provide much more control of positioning than you can accomplish in one table alone. You're right in the sense that it's pointless in some cases (of simple design) but there are many reasons when it may be necessary and beneficial. And in these cases, it is possible to nest without any gaps as long as the code isn't telling it to do otherwise.

    Regards,
    Jason
    http://www.charlottezweb.com
    HOSTING your livelihood

  9. #9
    wow

    this place is great

    first, thank you all for your responses

    It is probably due to my inexperience with FP and html that has put me in this quandry. If I knew better I probably wouldn't have to nest one table inside another (inside another). lol

    I have imported some sites, looked at the setup, and seen that they have done this same thing

    basically, I have a logo up top, then the next row would be the horizontal navigation bar, but I have graphics input at either end that muss things up without doing a nested table.

    It's a mess, but when I do it, it looks fine (in Preview) when we send it off for upload, a A LOT of things look different.



    ce la vie, right?

  10. #10
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    Have a page for us to view?

    Jason
    http://www.charlottezweb.com
    HOSTING your livelihood

  11. #11
    to be an honest newbie

    I have some trepidation about putting down a url

    but thank you




  12. #12
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    Try using cells with the tables. You can split the table into three cells. That sounds like what you need to do. You can create one table & then right click in the table & choose Split Cells. Now you can create three cells (like tables). Each of these cells will have different properties.

  13. #13
    What you are trying to do would be much easier with Dreamweaver's Table Layout mode. Dreamweaver has just as many quirks as FP, but in this case, it is the way to go. Also, you could lay this all out with Photoshop's ImageReady and the tables would all be made for you, flush.

  14. #14
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    I disagree. Dreamweaver, in my opinion, is stable and has very few bugs/problems. Least I have never encountered any and I have used nearly every aspect of it for some projects.
    - Chris
    [email protected]
    www.totalmindblow.com
    www.theundergroundfiles.com

  15. #15
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    Ok, your outer table is 800 pixels wide. Set your inner table to be 100% (instead of a specific number of pixels). But, that's not all. What are the content in your table's cells? Are you using padding, borders and margin? They all have to be taken into account.

    For example, if you have one graphic that's 800 pixels in your nested tables with 2 pixel cell padding and 1 pixel border on the inner table and no margin, your total size for the inner table is:

    800 + (2+2) + (1+1) + (0+0) = 806 pixels

    (note: cell padding, borders and margins have both left and right sides. This example assumes you're using even amounts.)
    Serial Beggar
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  16. #16
    Originally posted by serialbeggar
    Ok, your outer table is 800 pixels wide. Set your inner table to be 100% (instead of a specific number of pixels). But, that's not all. What are the content in your table's cells? Are you using padding, borders and margin? They all have to be taken into account.

    For example, if you have one graphic that's 800 pixels in your nested tables with 2 pixel cell padding and 1 pixel border on the inner table and no margin, your total size for the inner table is:

    800 + (2+2) + (1+1) + (0+0) = 806 pixels

    (note: cell padding, borders and margins have both left and right sides. This example assumes you're using even amounts.)
    aha! I was just about to try this. had discovered this in the html tab of an imported web that an attributed table size was 100%.

    excellent thanks! will report back

    PS no padding or borders

  17. #17
    Right on, Chris. Been a Dreamweaver fan as well. Microsoft just wants to be all things to all people. I think I'm not alone saying stay away from FP. I guess it may have it's advantages for some people...

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